Electricity on the Sabbath

[gadar perets]

And in Exodus 16:29 it says they were not to leave there dwellings.
No journeying whatsoever on the Sabbath.

That is not what it means. It means that they were not to leave their dwellings to gather manna. If it meant what you say, then Yeshua sinned by traveling around on the Sabbath (Luke 14:1 and many others). Since Yeshua was sinless, your interpretation must be in error.

 

[mmksparbud]

Is that a legitimate reason for you to do the same? At least my comments were based on G_d's own example of ceasing to create on the 7th day, and resting, as per Scripture.

I do understand about not creatng on the Sabbath, after all, God did cease to create on the 7th day. I was fervent knitter and would sometimes knit on Sabbath. This old couple I took care of objected, so I stopped. Then we turned on the TV one Sunday and saw a Sunday church service, and one lady was knitting!! We laughed and I said I was never that bad. But that is creating something. Flicking on a light switch is not creating light. It is letting light through the wires that was being held back. You create light when you light a candle, what lit the candle? How are you going to get to services if you do not drive: Will you walk? That is a lot more work! God did not say to not Create, He said do not do any business.

remember the day of ceasing, to set him apart,
six days you will serve, and you will do all your business
and the seventh day is a ceasing to YHWH your Elohiym, you will not do any business, you and your son and your daughter, your servant and your bondwoman, and your beast, and your stranger which is in your gates,
given that six days YHWH made the skies and the land, the sea and all which is in them, and he rested in the seventh day, therefore, YHWH respected the day of the ceasing, and he set him apart,
MTT: Exodus 20

I do not wish to state that you have no right to believe as you do, I am merely presenting my own point of view. You have every right to do or not do what your conscience dictates.

 

[ChavaK]

Howdy. I'm very new to observing the sabbath. I have gone to a few messianic/ Hebrew roots fellowships but have not found a home yet.

Anyways my question is about electricity and driving a car on the sabbath. I Feel guilty about both but then I'm left with two problems. I can't study on Friday night or early Saturday morning, and I can't attend a sabbath observant congregation. This makes it a little hard for me also because I don't get a chance to get together with other believers on this day and have to compromise by going to a church that preaches against the law and sabbath on Sunday. Also, I just sit in my room in the dark and have a really hard time with depression and anxiety and sinful thoughts and can't just read the scriptures for guidance. I know that some orthodox Jews don't use lights. How do they study when It's dark if they do at all?

First, if you are not Jewish, you are not bound by Jewish law.
Second, we don't sit in the dark There are a couple of options. One is to leave a light on during shabbat. The second is to use a timer on it.

 

[ChavaK]

Flipping a switch isn't exactly working up a sweat.

So is your definition of work something that makes you break into a sweat? That's not the Jewish definition.

If you're focused on what you should or shouldn't be doing you're not focused on God but on the to do list --not what it's about.

I disagree, it very much focuses you on G-d because it makes everything you do holy. I've used this example before, so excuse repeating it. If on shabbat you want to get on an elevator to go up a couple of floors, you get on and go up a couple of floors. Where is the holiness in that? Where is the concentration on G-d in that? If instead you have to pause, and remember it is shabbat, and that you don't take elevators on shabbat, but instead follow Jewish law and walk up....you are concentrating on shabbat and G-d both. I find it very easy to follow shabbat, because we are not concentrating on what we can't do, but on what we don't have to do. It's a very big difference.

 

[ChavaK]

One can impose all sorts of man made rules in order to avoid breaking the Sabbath, but they will make the Sabbath a burden. If it is wrong to create anything on Sabbath, then we are all sinners. If we walk on the Sabbath day and accidentally step on an ant, we create death. Walking on Sabbath also creates friction, air waves, detours, etc. Then we must create new rules to avoid creating friction, air waves, etc. Even if we remain sleeping the full 24 hours, we are still creating wear and tear on our sheets and mattresses. Where does it end?

None of that involves the work that is forbidden on shabbat.

 

[gadar perets]

None of that involves the work that is forbidden on shabbat.

I was not addressing forbidden work, but the belief that we are forbidden to create anything.

 

[mmksparbud]

So is your definition of work something that makes you break into a sweat? That's not the Jewish definition.

I disagree, it very much focuses you on G-d because it makes everything you do holy. I've used this example before, so excuse repeating it. If on shabbat you want to get on an elevator to go up a couple of floors, you get on and go up a couple of floors. Where is the holiness in that? Where is the concentration on G-d in that? If instead you have to pause, and remember it is shabbat, and that you don't take elevators on shabbat, but instead follow Jewish law and walk up....you are concentrating on shabbat and G-d both. I find it very easy to follow shabbat, because we are not concentrating on what we can't do, but on what we don't have to do. It's a very big difference.

No---that isn't my definition. Expansion of energy is one definition, but not the only one, the original word says business, not work. So whatever you do that earns money or a living for you would be work--an accountant is working, just as much as someone that cuts down trees. Going up an elevator or walking up the stairs, I vote going up by elevator--you are not working as hard--and can concentrate on keeping your mind on God instead of breathing to keep on climbing!!

 

[HARK!]

Both of those man made rules stem from the command to not kindle a fire on the Sabbath. However, IMHO, kindling a fire in Moses' day was far more work intensive than flicking on a light switch or turning a car on.

Here's the verse you are referring to:

Exodus 35:3
"You shall not kindle a fire [Where?] in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day."

Why?



Leviticus 23:3
'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings.

Well for one, you shouldn't be home tending a fire. You should be attending the convocation.

 

[visionary]

First, if you are not Jewish, you are not bound by Jewish law.
Second, we don't sit in the dark There are a couple of options. One is to leave a light on during shabbat. The second is to use a timer on it.

We are bound by God's law.... Oral torah is a Jewish law, which we are not bound to. Now as to how we obey God's Law, it is informative to learn from our older brother in the faith.

 

[Heber Book List]

Luke said in Acts 1:12 that they traveled a Sabbath day's journey.
But, this concept is not found anywhere in the OT.
So in NT times it may have been a well known concept because of the Pharisees teaching.
My fixation as you call it, you were the one that told me to look at it. Post 31

There is a difference between looking at, and understanding

Try looking careful at the Tanach readings - all you need to know re your comments is there in the context. You have to do some of the work in this question / answer session!

ADDED: I see someone has been kind enough to show you what you did not see when you were 'looking at' the text. My comment still stands - you have to do some of it yourself, simply because a person remembers more easily when they have discovered something themselves, albeit in a 'guided' way.

 

[Heber Book List]

I do understand about not creatng on the Sabbath, after all, God did cease to create on the 7th day. I was fervent knitter and would sometimes knit on Sabbath. This old couple I took care of objected, so I stopped. Then we turned on the TV one Sunday and saw a Sunday church service, and one lady was knitting!! We laughed and I said I was never that bad. But that is creating something. Flicking on a light switch is not creating light. It is letting light through the wires that was being held back. You create light when you light a candle, what lit the candle? How are you going to get to services if you do not drive: Will you walk? That is a lot more work! God did not say to not Create, He said do not do any business.

remember the day of ceasing, to set him apart,
six days you will serve, and you will do all your business
and the seventh day is a ceasing to YHWH your Elohiym, you will not do any business, you and your son and your daughter, your servant and your bondwoman, and your beast, and your stranger which is in your gates,
given that six days YHWH made the skies and the land, the sea and all which is in them, and he rested in the seventh day, therefore, YHWH respected the day of the ceasing, and he set him apart,
MTT: Exodus 20

I do not wish to state that you have no right to believe as you do, I am merely presenting my own point of view. You have every right to do or not do what your conscience dictates.

That would be a great answer if it actually related to what I said

What I actually said is that switching on the light creates a spark - that is why, when there is a gas leak you must never use a light switch. Creating on the 7th day is not permitted.

 

[Tutorman]

You are saying Christians are lawless people, which isn't true. True believers are obedient children of God. The law in the scriptures you are quoting should not be understood in the context you give them. But then it takes the newness of the Spirit to understand this walk is not in the oldness of the letter and that the best way to avoid breaking the law is to be obedient to the Law like His Son who kept it perfectly as an example of how we are to live.

No, I am saying Christians are no longer under the law of death but Christians are under the Grace of Christ.

 

[mmksparbud]

That would be a great answer if it actually related to what I said

What I actually said is that switching on the light creates a spark - that is why, when there is a gas leak you must never use a light switch. Creating on the 7th day is not permitted.

The spark happens when you turn it off also. In fact, it can be a bigger spark when disconnecting. Make sure you do not turn off the lights till after sundown.
Also:
According to the University of Hawaii, “When two objects are rubbed together to create static electricity, one object gives up electrons and becomes more positively charged while the other material collects electrons and becomes more negatively charged.” This is because one material has weakly bound electrons, and the other has many vacancies in its outer electron shells, so electrons can move from the former to the latter creating a charge imbalance after the materials are separated. Materials that can lose or gain electrons in this way are called triboelectric, according to Northwestern University. One common example of this would be shuffling your feet across carpet, particularly in low humidity which makes the air less conductive and increases the effect.
In addition to causing in a painful shock, these sudden high-voltage discharges can provide a source of ignition for flammable substances, according to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). Static shock can also damage delicate electronics. According to NASA, a simple spark from a finger can damage sensitive components and render them unusable, so precautions must be taken such as keeping circuit boards in conductive plastic bags and wearing grounding straps to dissipate static charge continuously from your body.

Another source of static charge is the motion of fluids through a pipe or hose. If that fluid is flammable — such as gasoline — a spark from a sudden discharge could result in a fire or explosion. People who handle liquid fuels should take great care to avoid charge buildup and sudden discharge. In an interview, Daniel Marsh, professor of physics at Missouri Southern State University, warned that when putting gasoline in your car, you should always touch a metal part of the car after getting out to dissipate any charge that might have developed by sliding across the seat. Also, when buying gas for your lawn mower, you should always take the can out of your car and place it on the ground while filling it. This dissipates the static charge continuously and keeps it from building up enough to create a spark.

I guess we can't walk on a carpet on the Sabbath either! I mean, how far do you go with this??

 

[pat34lee]

God didn't cease creating because of the Sabbath.
God finished creating on the 6th day and rested the 7th day.
Because of that He sanctified the Sabbath.
Sabbath = Rest

If you're going to post in here, you should follow
the rules. You are not only wrong, but you aren't
allowed to teach anti-Torah in here.

The 7th day is Saturday, or the Sabbath. Check
almost any calendar, including that on your PC.
The week begins with Sunday.

On your previous post you admit that the Sabbath
was made for man.

Who made it as a gift for man? God.

How often do you throw a gift back in the face of
the person who gave it to you, as if it were garbage?

 

[Heber Book List]

The spark happens when you turn it off also. In fact, it can be a bigger spark when disconnecting. Make sure you do not turn off the lights till after sundown.
Also:
According to the University of Hawaii, “When two objects are rubbed together to create static electricity, one object gives up electrons and becomes more positively charged while the other material collects electrons and becomes more negatively charged.” This is because one material has weakly bound electrons, and the other has many vacancies in its outer electron shells, so electrons can move from the former to the latter creating a charge imbalance after the materials are separated. Materials that can lose or gain electrons in this way are called triboelectric, according to Northwestern University. One common example of this would be shuffling your feet across carpet, particularly in low humidity which makes the air less conductive and increases the effect.
In addition to causing in a painful shock, these sudden high-voltage discharges can provide a source of ignition for flammable substances, according to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). Static shock can also damage delicate electronics. According to NASA, a simple spark from a finger can damage sensitive components and render them unusable, so precautions must be taken such as keeping circuit boards in conductive plastic bags and wearing grounding straps to dissipate static charge continuously from your body.

Another source of static charge is the motion of fluids through a pipe or hose. If that fluid is flammable — such as gasoline — a spark from a sudden discharge could result in a fire or explosion. People who handle liquid fuels should take great care to avoid charge buildup and sudden discharge. In an interview, Daniel Marsh, professor of physics at Missouri Southern State University, warned that when putting gasoline in your car, you should always touch a metal part of the car after getting out to dissipate any charge that might have developed by sliding across the seat. Also, when buying gas for your lawn mower, you should always take the can out of your car and place it on the ground while filling it. This dissipates the static charge continuously and keeps it from building up enough to create a spark.

I guess we can't walk on a carpet on the Sabbath either! I mean, how far do you go with this??

a) If you do not switch on a light you will not need to turn it off. If you leave a light on, neither action will be a problem!

b) Not worth commenting on as with the post above about about creating death by walking on ants! What I have written is the accepted understanding of Shabbat in regard to certain things. It is not for anyone to make silly comments to try and negate rules by which people live. If do not agree, you are free to not post .

Your post is borderline in violation of the the SOP - please read it before continuing to post. It is not permitted to belittle the Law or its observance, nor those who obey it, on Messianic Judaism fora.

 

[pat34lee]

Sorry about that. I forgot that and was trying to help a Christian brother understand that the law is dead to Christians but I guess not to some who want to be burden by the law

Since Yeshua is the Torah, both written and living, you
are calling him a burden. [John 1]

1 John 5:1-4
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Note that it says God's commandments, not supposed
NT commands as some teach.

72 Bible verses about Keep The Commandments

 

[pat34lee]

Your post is borderline in violation of the the SOP - please read it before continuing to post. It is not permitted to belittle the Law or its observance, nor those who obey it, on Messianic Judaism fora.

No, she is correct. The traditions of the Rabbis are not
the law, and are not binding. At best, they are on par
with Christian commentaries on the bible.

 

[mmksparbud]

a) If you do not switch on a light you will not need to turn it off. If you leave a light on, neither action will be a problem!

b) Not worth commenting on as with the post above about about creating death by walking on ants! What I have written is the accepted understanding of Shabbat in regard to certain things. It is not for anyone to make silly comments to try and negate rules by which people live. If do not agree, you are free to not post .

Your post is borderline in violation of the the SOP - please read it before continuing to post. It is not permitted to belittle the Law or its observance, nor those who obey it, on Messianic Judaism fora.

I was not belittling----I asked a question--how far do you go with this? Do you refrain from walking on carpeting?? If you do not wish to answer, that is OK.

 

[Heber Book List]

Sorry about that. I forgot that and was trying to help a Christian brother understand that the law is dead to Christians but I guess not to some who want to be burden by the law

There is nowhere in the Christian Testament that says G_d's Law is a burden, in fact quite the opposite view is given. I assume you also mean that the so called 10 Commandments are a burden, as they are a part of G_d's Law (the 613).

It is sad when Christians tell the world that G_d's rules for living and obeying him are a burden and death, not that many Christians actually follow all 10 of those teachings, as your own words bear witness.

 

[Heber Book List]

No, she is correct. The traditions of the Rabbis are not
the law, and are not binding. At best, they are on par
with Christian commentaries on the bible.

I disagree.

!000's of Orthodox Jews, and others, take the view on not creating on Shabbat on the basis that, if G_d did not create on the 7th day, then neither should man unnecessarily create, as with the command to not create fire. Try going to the Western Wall during Shabbat and taking a photo or film of what is happening, you will see whether it is deemed to be a real requirement of the Law, as it is understood.

It is not an idle thought, it is Bible based, more so than having candles on the table at Shabbat, and claiming that G_d commanded them to be lit . The Rabbis did make lots of Laws, some are in line with Scripture, some not. The less good decisions do not negate all the others

If people choose to follow that as their understanding of the necessary outworking of the Law, it is not for other posters to make disrespectful / mocking comments about creating death or not walking on carpets, that reflect negatively on those who observe the restrictions.