Election:Talk is cheap

[Knight]

OPC is the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. CPC is the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.

Thanks.

I'd not heard of these before.

 

[Reformationist]

Was there any point to this thread other than an attempted attack on Reformed Theology?

Doesn't look like it.

 

[LynneClomina]

Was there any point to this thread other than an attempted attack on Reformed Theology?

i dont think so...

 

[theseed]

If God doesn't elect on the basis of foreknowledge of good works, being a good neighbor, "inviting Jesus . . . , then on what basis? Bad works?

He does not elect on the basis of anything we are saved by grace. But I will say this, God has chosen the weak in this world to be strong in faith.

God elects on some basis that is unknown to us or not understandable to us, then as far as we can know, God's election is a random process.

It is a mystery (Romans 9.1)

If election is a random process, then considering the world population, it is statistically improbable that anyone in the OPC (or the CRC or any numerically small Christian denomination) is "elect."

Why not? faith in Christ indicates election

If this analysis is incorrect, then on what basis does God elect?

Calvinist believe that it is not on the basis of rightous works including faith. I agree that it is not based on works. I believe that it is for God's glory and only he knows why he elects those he elects. It is to God's glory to take the weak of this world and make them strong in faith. We read this in 1 Corinthians 1, which also has verses regarding election. Nevertheless, we see people from all walks of life who have faith in Christ.

 

[Flynmonkie]

If God doesn't elect on the basis of foreknowledge of good works, being a good neighbor, "inviting Jesus . . . , then on what basis? Bad works?

He does not elect for these reasons alone! He elects when you make the choice to follow him. At that time you become the elect. As a christian you should walk in his light. However, he does know who will make the choice or not. God is everything he could force us BUT that is so much undervalued -He does not "force" you to do so. He loves you that much!

If God elects on some basis that is unknown to us or not understandable to us, then as far as we can know, God's election is a random process.

God has forewarned us that to investigate something that is clearly is for him to know, is sinning. Gods plans are none of our business. I think those whom are not saved are in this position because they want to be. Simple as that. There are some things left unknown to us, and we will NEVER understand. If we do not, we are not supposed to. Our business is our walk with him, our faith, prayer and study...he will lead us where he wants us.


If election is a random process, then considering the world population, it is statistically improbable that anyone in the OPC (or the CRC or any numerically small Christian denomination) is "elect."

What you OPCs (or whomever) going to say when you find yourselves in Hell?

The glory of his grace seems to be short changed by people that insist on the fact that he predestines some to salvation and some to eternal damnation......just plain nonsense. Seems to me that it is just man trying to conceptualize God - and demeaning his wonderful gift to us. But I do not think this is a specific denomination issue, many people hold dear to this understanding.

If this analysis is incorrect, then on what basis does God elect?

 

[BBAS 64]

Was there any point to this thread other than an attempted attack on Reformed Theology?

Good day, Knight

It seems that there was no other point in this thread. Maybe the OP was opened by Dave Hunt seeing his part the book "Debating Calvism" has failed Badly.
So to has the OP. IMHO


Peace to u,

BBAS

 

[Flynmonkie]

Good day, Knight

It seems that there was no other point in this thread. Maybe the OP was opened by Dave Hunt seeing his part the book "Debating Calvism" has failed Badly.
So to has the OP. IMHO


Peace to u,

BBAS

Hey, I read some of Dave Hunts stuff just recently, the seduction books......I had no idea he had a book about Calvinism?? But of course I just found out he is strictly in the Arm camp....not too thrilled about that! What is the OP???

What you OPCs (or whomever) going to say when you find yourselves in Hell?

I missed this in my earlier reply. I can assure you, even though I firmly believe salvation is offered to ALL men. Trying to assume Gods responsibility in judgment will cause you greater pain. We are clearly warned about this. Telling people they are headed to Hell is a form of judging salvation. That is Gods job, not ours.

 

[Wrigley]

What are you refering to with OPC and CPC?

I'm reading thru the thread and just in case this hasn't been answered, OPC=Orthodox Presbyterian Church. CRC=Christian Reformed Church

 

[Bulldog]

I'm reading thru the thread and just in case this hasn't been answered, OPC=Orthodox Presbyterian Church. CRC=Christian Reformed Church.

LOL, Wrigley, he actually said CPC, meaning Cumberland Presbyterian Church.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, Flymonkie

OP= Opening Post


Peace to u,

BBAS

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, Flymonkie

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590522737/qid%3D1080131818/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-6309197-0023056

The BOOK!

Bill

 

[Flynmonkie]

Good Day, Flymonkie

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590522737/qid%3D1080131818/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-6309197-0023056

The BOOK!

Bill

Good Day, Bill! (not sure if you have ever heard of Paul Harvey..but he always says this in conclusion to his daily program....could not tell if you were running me off or saying Hello! )
Thanks so much for the info!!!

Nope had no idea...like I said, I just started reading some of his stuff. Glad to be aware of the opposing opinions!
Thanks again!

 

[billwald]

"5.) but wait a minute. God decided when he knew me before the foundation of the world that He was gonna save me."

I accept TULIP as logical and probable. Why do Reformed believers (of all people) assume that THEY are the elect?

The NT check list is 1 John. Anyone who meets 100% of John's check list can know that he is saved. I don't know anyone who does meet the mark.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

As a Calvanist, I don't have to worry about not being elect. I know I'm elect because I have faith that Jesus died for my sins, and that my putting my trust in him I am elect. Read Acts 13. Towards the end, Luke makes a very good statement on predestination that will help you to put a person's faith in God and predestination together better.

 

[Reformationist]

Why do Reformed believers (of all people) assume that THEY are the elect?

LOL! ROTFLOL! If I put any stock in ANYTHING you said I might be offended at this. "...of all people..." Man, that is too funny.

 

[billwald]

Who should know better than Reformed people that there is no human test for the state of being elected? That is the real reason why we should consied the Ten Commandments - because we are making our election sure - by working on the problem, not in thankfulness for our election. It is impolite to give thanks for a gift before one receives it.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

We don't make our calling and election sure just by following God's guidelines, but by having heart that follows and love God. Legalism, or a doctrine of works is against the principle of reformed theology.

 

[theseed]

Who should know better than Reformed people that there is no human test for the state of being elected? That is the real reason why we should consied the Ten Commandments - because we are making our election sure - by working on the problem, not in thankfulness for our election. It is impolite to give thanks for a gift before one receives it.

No body seeks God, unless they are elected, period.

 

[Reformationist]

No body seeks God, unless they are elected, period.

Even further, no one seeks God unless they are regenerated unto life in Christ.

A true, genuine desire for salvation in Christ is, in fact, a mark of election.

God bless

 

[billwald]

>Even further, no one seeks God unless they are regenerated unto life in Christ.

Agreed!

>A true, genuine desire for salvation in Christ is, in fact, a mark of election.

Most likely.

Consider the set consisting of every human. It contains two subsets, one, the elect (E) and two, everyone else (U).

1.Does the E set contain everyone who seeks God?

I agree that it does if "everyone" contains some Mormons, Jews, and Moslems.

2. Does the E set contain everyone who has a true desire for salvation in Christ?

3. Is the "true desire . . Christ" set a subset of the "Everyone who seeks God" set?

4. How does a person know if he has a true or a false desire for salvation in Christ?