Election and Sin

[marianservant]

I have a question about election, and don't judge me by my faith icon lol, I am a Thomist/Augustinian Catholic when it comes to Predestination, but anyway onto my question.

The early Calvinists and then later the Puritans looked for "signs" of election in their lives, a yearning for the Word, a stronger faith, good morals, etc. I have a question: if a Christian is struggling with debilitating sin, that which is extremely hard to escape such as alcoholism or homosexuality/pornography/masturbation addiction, is that a sign they are not elected. I mean even with contrition over these sins, if they are not strong enough to totalyl overcome them at a stage in their life do you believe it is a sign they are reprobates?

Just a question and I appreciate the great and concise answers I usually get here on semper reformanda, if I were protestant I would def. be Reformed LOL, but don't look for that soon HAHA. Well thanks everyone and The Lord be with you!

 

[Knight]

Sin is a part of our nature. We will be plagued with it all our earthly lives. God's grace has given us freedom from the condemnation of sin.

It is not for me to say wether a hypothetical person who struggles with repeated sin is saved or not. Lord knows that I have walked down the same wrong road more than once in my life. I've regretted it each and every time. Therein, I think, lies the answer. The attitude of continued genuine repentance.

However, we must always be careful with repeated sin. The focus should not be on the election of others but on ourselves and our own assurance in salvation. This is why the Bible has such strong cautions against falling away. Paul instructs us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. (2 Cor. 13:5)

Fortunately, God has not left us alone in our struggle with sin. We have His Holy Spirit, we have believing brothers and sisters in Christ and we have His word to keep us in check.

Priase be to God that one day the final remains of sin will be wiped from our souls and we will be completely free. Until then we are to persevere.

 

[marianservant]

Thanks, that was a great response Knight, it really helped me, I struggle with a lot of sin and I have a lot of friends who struggle with lifelong sins like homosexuality and even though some of them repent and want to live celibate, they still lust and feel that they are not christians....but I tell them "Come now and let us reason together", says the Lord,
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." (Isaiah 1:18)
and I pray for them. I just wanted to see what was everyone's view on intrinisic sin and election. Thanks and The Lord be With you

 

[JJB]

I also think the word "struggling" is important. Striving to overcome indicates a person wants to be obedient.

 

[marianservant]

I also think the word "struggling" is important. Striving to overcome indicates a person wants to be obedient.

Good Point

 

[5solas]

1Pe 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

1Pe 5:9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

1Pe 5:10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

1Pe 5:11 To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

I am convinced that a true Christian is suffering because he often falls into sin - but look at Christ with your heart and mind and be assured that if you really are his child he will restore, confirm, strenghten and establish you.
The question is: Are you sure that you are his? That's the point. And the Bible tells us that we can be sure.

 

[Irishcat922]

I believe it was William Guthrie a Puritan Minister who said "God sees Desire as deed" in the Christian's Life. So as JJB said I think for the Christian life will be an ongoing struggle against remaining corruption whatever form that may take, but The believer by God's grace never Gives up.

 

[Elect]

I have a question about election, and don't judge me by my faith icon lol, I am a Thomist/Augustinian Catholic when it comes to Predestination, but anyway onto my question.

The early Calvinists and then later the Puritans looked for "signs" of election in their lives, a yearning for the Word, a stronger faith, good morals, etc. I have a question: if a Christian is struggling with debilitating sin, that which is extremely hard to escape such as alcoholism or homosexuality/pornography/masturbation addiction, is that a sign they are not elected. I mean even with contrition over these sins, if they are not strong enough to totalyl overcome them at a stage in their life do you believe it is a sign they are reprobates?

Just a question and I appreciate the great and concise answers I usually get here on semper reformanda, if I were protestant I would def. be Reformed LOL, but don't look for that soon HAHA. Well thanks everyone and The Lord be with you!

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do.
Rom 7:20 But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man;
Rom 7:23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

If we hate our sin and do not want to commit it, even when we do, then we say that the Law of God is good. It then, is not us that commits sin but the sin that is in our flesh. But, If one is looking for a excuse to sin that one should check himself to see if he be in the faith or not.
I hope this helps!

 

[James1979]

marianservant and the rest,

I truly believe that if a person is elected and has a besetting sin, eventually God will bring a chastisement on him/her to overcome that sin and if the indiviual endure the chastisement from God does overcome that sin then that's an evidence that they are a child of God. This is mention in the book of Hebew 12. I hope this helps

James

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

Elect took the words, and Scripture, right out of my mouth. The fact that we recognize sin for sin, find it loathsome, and therefore struggle with it, is a good sign that one is really a Christian. It's not certain, but it is a good sign indeed.

if I were protestant I would def. be Reformed LOL, but don't look for that soon HAHA.

We'll keep praying, then.

 

[5solas]

...if I were protestant I would def. be Reformed LOL, but don't look for that soon HAHA.

signs of hope - not that soon does not mean never

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I never say never.

 

[marianservant]

signs of hope - not that soon does not mean never

LOL I doubt I'll be runnging to the other side anytime soon, but I am turning into a Calvinist groupie.

 

[cygnusx1]

LOL I doubt I'll be runnging to the other side anytime soon, but I am turning into a Calvinist groupie.

... that is FUNNY!!!!

 

[5solas]

LOL I doubt I'll be runnging to the other side anytime soon, but I am turning into a Calvinist groupie.

- you did it again: not anytime soon does not mean never!

well, welcome Calvinist groupie

 

[Rolf Ernst]

MarianServant--Check St. John's first letter to the church. I believe God gave it to us so we could examine ourselves according to it. Remember that there is no perfection until we see Christ in person. The Apostle Paul wrote of his struggles against the flesh as he anxiously strove to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Be encouraged that God's highest purpose for us is that we be conformed to the image of Christ, and He will finally make a full work of it. Until then, remember that our greatest aid in becoming conformed to Christ is to grow in grace and IN THE KNOWLEDGE of Christ because He has given unto us ALL THINGS that pertain unto life and Godliness THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM.

 

[JJB]

MarianServant--Check St. John's first letter to the church. I believe God gave it to us so we could examine ourselves according to it. Remember that there is no perfection until we see Christ in person. The Apostle Paul wrote of his struggles against the flesh as he anxiously strove to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Be encouraged that God's highest purpose for us is that we be conformed to the image of Christ, and He will finally make a full work of it. Until then, remember that our greatest aid in becoming conformed to Christ is to grow in grace and IN THE KNOWLEDGE of Christ because He has given unto us ALL THINGS that pertain unto life and Godliness THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM.

What an encouragement, Rolf! Thanks particularly for that second paragraph!

 

[Rolf Ernst]

LOL I doubt I'll be runnging to the other side anytime soon, but I am turning into a Calvinist groupie.

Welcome, Marianservant to our group; but don't think of us as anything. We pursue after God through the revelation of God in Christ given to us in the scripture, and desire as much for others, for "He has given unto us ALL things that pertain unto life and Godliness through the knowledge of Him [Christ]."

 

[marianservant]

OKAY....I HATE to amdit this lol....but here is something I wrote on the Methodist forum I wanted to share wiht you all.....

It all comes crashing down...


Okay, a long and personal story, so the faint of heart...might wanna leave this thread lol.

I was born into a family of Free-Will Baptists, who never went to church and didn't discuss God or Religion. For some odd reason, because I was never introduced to religion, at age seven I became obsessed with religion and started on a path of study quite wild for a young person, and it kept going till I decided that Catholicism was my calling. I told my parents, who I thought wouldn't care because they weren't religious, but then it shocked me to find out that they said an emphatic NO! And denied that Catholicism was even Christianity, so I went inot despair, and therefor I couldn't go to Mass or even own a rosary.

When I gave up for fighting I told mom that I would start trying protestant churches, I like the local UMC, so I was baptised and joined. I loved the fellowship but I still longed ot be Catholic so I left the UMC and gave up on Church. My parents eeing i had given up on church finally relented and I was allowed to become catholic, which I did with much joy. It has been a year and I have even been confirmed, but now I am very upset...I had a MASSIVE car accident this april, and still cannot walk on my own. In this time, i attend church when I can, but I cant a lot so I pray and read the bible more than I ever have!!! So then I start to have doubts in my faith...the more I pray the mroe I want true fellowship, open worship and an end to my legalistic leanings. It makes me want to run back to the UMC, however I cannot do that, for a few reasons...

When I was denied Catholicims by my parents I became very very lost and reada many different religious books and holy books and believed in each one, being foolosh and gullible, and os people at school told me I changed my religion like my socks. So then when I did become catholic I became "torquemada of the high school" I was crazed catholic lol and told every one it was the only path and that I would never denounce it and even told a ton of people I was going to be a priest!!! So now I have found that there is no way I could face my peers and leave the RCC....but I feel like God is calling me elsewhere...then their is another cog in the machine...

After reading and praying I believe in reformed theology...calvinism...DUN DUN DUN!!! (cheesy dramatic music)....which is the enemy of the RCC and the exact oppoiste of wesleyanism!!! SO what do I do...a thir church? I could never live that down here! What to do?

 

[mannysee]

is that the 20th Century Fox 'Dun, Dun, Dun' movie beginning soundtrack?

...the curtains roll back, and the tale is revealed to all.....