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Einstein's gulf

goat37

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Here is part of one post that talks about birds having the genes for making teeth. The webpage address is about 9 pages long, so just go to www.ask.com and ask the question "do birds have the genes for making teeth?" and it is the first page that it gives. I'll give more in a sec.



"There is, however, a dramatic laboratory proof of evolution that was published over a decade ago but that has never been mentioned in any general textbook with which I am familiar. Working with a phenomenon called "embryonic induction", Kollar and Fisher (Science, February 29th, 1980) were able to demonstrate that modern birds possess the genes for making teeth! The various tissues of any developing organ communicate with each other, each tissue often signaling another when and into what to develop. Thus, the outer layer of a tooth or enamel develops from an embryonic tissue called epithelium, which lines the surface of the gum, and the deeper, bone-like dentin of the tooth
derives from an underlying embryonic tissue called mesenchyme. (See diagram) Each of these tissues, the epithelium and the mesenchyme, is influenced by the other (embryonic induction). In the bird, the outer epithelial layer normally deelops into hard beak material. In a mammal such as a mouse, the same layer develops into the upper portion of the tooth (the enamel). Kollar and Fisher transplanted the deeper mesenchyme tissue from the tooth-forming region of a mouse embryo beneath the beak-forming epithelial layer of an embryonic chick.
As a result, the chick epithelium secreted tooth-enamel proteins and induced the mesenchyme to form several tooth parts, such as dentin and odontoblasts (dentin-forming cells). That is, the chick tissue made part of the tooth and participated in synthesis of the mesenchymal portions of the tooth, something which it would have been totally unable to accomplish unless its DNA contained tooth-forming genes!

This experiment proves that modern birds (specifically the domestic chicken) possess the genes for making teeth. However, birds never make teeth in nature, so one must ask where they got these genes and why they have them. The only possibly conclusion is that birds have retained genes from an earlier stage of evolution (inherited as "genetic junk") from progenitors which themselves had and used teeth. This finding is consistent with the fossil record, which indicated that birds evolved from reptiles (in particular a branch of small dinosaurs). Fossils of Archaeoteryx indicate that this 150-million-year-old animal was a "blend" of reptilian and avian (bird-like) characteristics. For example, Archaeopteryx had feathers and a furcula ("wishbone") for attachment of flight muscles like a bird, but possessed many skeletal features and teeth like a reptile. Biologists consider Archaeopteryx to be intermediate between reptiles and birds."


Actualy, forget it, I am not posting more sources... there are too many to choose from, just go research it for yourself if you think it's wrong. The burden is on YOU to disprove it.
 
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JohnR7

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goat37 said:
Here is part of one post that talks about birds having the genes for making teeth. The webpage address is about 9 pages long, so just go to www.ask.com and ask the question "do birds have the genes for making teeth?" and it is the first page that it gives. I'll give more in a sec.

Actualy, forget it, I am not posting more sources... there are too many to choose from, just go research it for yourself if you think it's wrong. The burden is on YOU to disprove it.

Actually, now I do remember looking at that information once and not seeing anything of any substance to it. But I did just find a link that must be a fraud that says that a French scientist got a bird to grow teeth. Now that could prove something.

Anyone want to check this link out and tell me if this is for real or if it is a fraud?

http://www.scienceagogo.com/message_board5/messages/17.shtml

microrapper.jpg
 
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goat37

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If we can genetically engineer a sheep out of a test tube, I am sure we can make a bird that has teeth. (especially since they already have the genes for them)

So are you saying John, that you don't believe that birds have the genes to make teeth?
 
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JohnR7

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goat37 said:
So are you saying John, that you don't believe that birds have the genes to make teeth?

If you had a bird with a dormant gene that could produce teeth, that would give creationism something to have to explain. If God created each species unique onto itself, then why would there be a gene that could produce teeth?
 
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goat37

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well, it's true... so you better go find out what the creationist stance is on it.


This has been debated time after time on my other board, internet infidels, and not one bit of evidence could be given to explain it other than evolution. (not one that wasn't convoluted and incoherent anyway)
 
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JohnR7

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goat37 said:
This has been debated time after time on my other board, internet infidels, and not one bit of evidence could be given to explain it other than evolution. (not one that wasn't convoluted and incoherent anyway)

I am still waiting for some evidence that birds can grow teeth. There is no way a reptile could "evolve" into a bird, because God created birds before He created reptiles.
 
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Nathan Poe

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strubenuff said:
Is John a troll?

He wasn't always like this.

When I first came to these boards, he was interesting.

After a while, he just became amusing.

In the last few weeks, it's just gotten pitiful. (or maybe he's always been this way, and it took me this long to notice)

So I vote yes.
 
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wblastyn

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JohnR7 said:
If you had a bird with a dormant gene that could produce teeth, that would give creationism something to have to explain. If God created each species unique onto itself, then why would there be a gene that could produce teeth?
What about humans with the dominant gene to produce a tail?

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_492558.html

Just in case you decide to ignore this, here's a picture:

india_babytail410x500.jpg
 
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Nathan Poe

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JohnR7 said:
There is no bone structure, it is just a growth. Something to chalk up to Rigley's believe it or not.

You mean Ripley's?

And I didn't see anything in the article about bone structure. How do you know it's just a growth?

And besides, bones or no bones, don't you think that a "growth" that looks like a tail in the exact part of the body where we'd expect a tail to be is just a little too much of a coincidence? I mean, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
 
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wblastyn

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JohnR7

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Nathan Poe said:
And besides, bones or no bones, don't you think that a "growth" that looks like a tail in the exact part of the body where we'd expect a tail to be is just a little too much of a coincidence? I mean, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

It depends if your desperate enough to believe a growth is a tail.
 
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JohnR7

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Arikay said:
Apparently According to John, My dog doesnt have a tail. Just a Common "growth".:D

I heard that there are dogs that do not have tails, I think I may have even seen a dog that only had a little stub of a tail. But as far as I know, the dogs that do have tails, have a bone structure in that tail. Otherwise, they would not be able to wag it :)
 
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