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EEEEVIL Vegans.

gaijin178

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Ok, this is my last post because this is getting really stupid.. I know that you are trying to use humor to prove your point and make people think as you liked to put it. But the joke is really getting old. You haven't thought up any new jokes, so no, your posts don't make me think. Well, the only thing that it makes me think is that they are not worth listening to.

And by the way, I am not starving myself to death because I don't eat meat. Like I said at least 3 times before, vegetarians pretty much like to just be left alone and me being one does nothing to you or your family or your religious faith so back off.
 
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fanatiquefou

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The Gregorian said:
what does eating wood and starving have to do with anything? 1: yes, you 'can' get all the vitamins you need from eating just plants... you can't get all the protiens you need. if you eat those complimentary proteins, like tofu with... whatever tofu compliments... you'll end up with all the parts of a complete protein.... but vegetarians just plain don't get all the protein they need. Plus with the massive overload of fiber, and nothing to slow their food down, it goes through their system too fast to digest hardly any of it... so you're still not getting as much of your vitamins as you should. That's a reason why vegetarians get to be skin and bones so quick... muscles atrophe, and they get no nutrients to make fat.... they're just starving themselves to death.


Your facts are WAY off here; I think you need to do some major rechecking before spreading any more false information about vegetarian diets. For one thing, the concept of needing to eat "complementary proteins" in a vegetarian/vegan diet is an old one, and most dieticians reject it now. In addition, vegetarians who are eating healthy foods and getting the necessary amount of calories for their lifestyles should not be suffering from any protein deficiency whatsoever. Many vegetarians are much, much healthier than omnivores - in fact, you'll find that large proportions of top athletes are vegetarians. From www.ivu.org/faq/:



[font=helvetica,arial][size=-1]Should I be worried about getting enough protein on a vegetarian/vegan diet?

No, not as long as you're taking in enough calories. Official recommendations suggest that eating 8% of our daily energy as protein will provide an adequate amount. National and international recommendations for protein intake are based on animal sources of protein such as meat, cow's milk and eggs. Plant proteins may be less digestible because of intrinsic differences in the nature of the protein and the presence of other factors such as fibre, which may reduce protein digestibility by as much as 10%. Nevertheless, dietary studies show the adequacy of plant foods, as sole sources of protein as does the experience of healthy vegans of all ages.

The main protein foods in a vegan diet are the pulses (peas, beans and lentils), nuts, seeds and grains, all of which are relatively energy dense. As the average protein level in pulses is 27% of calories; in nuts and seeds 13%; and in grains 12%, it is easy to see that plant foods can supply the recommended amount of protein as long as the energy requirements are met.

The short answer is: "No, sufficient protein can be obtained by eating a variety of foods", but here is a longer explanation:

Protein is synthesized by the human body out of individual amino acids. The body breaks down food into individual amino acids and then reassembles the proteins it requires.

All amino acids must be present in the body to make proteins. Those that can be synthesized from other amino acids are called "unessential" amino acids. You can live on a diet deficient of these if you eat enough extra of the other amino acids to synthesize these. Those that cannot be synthesized from other amino acids are called "essential" amino acids and must be present in the diet.

Protein that contains all essential amino acids is called "complete" protein. Protein that contains some, but not all essential amino acids is called "incomplete" protein. It used to be believed that all amino acids must be eaten at the same time to form complete proteins. We now know that incomplete proteins can be stored in the body for many days to be combined with other incomplete proteins. As long as all essential amino acids are in the diet, it does not matter if the proteins are complete or incomplete.

The amount of protein recorded on food labels only lists the complete proteins. A product may contain much higher amounts of incomplete protein that is not listed. Combining such products may increase the total amount of protein beyond the levels expected. The 1989 revision of the FDA's RDA suggests a protein intake of 44-63 grams. Many scientists think this number is too high. Most scientists agree with this number. [/size][/font]

[font=helvetica,arial][size=-1]Do I need to combine proteins on a vegetarian/vegan diet?

Frances Moore Lappe popularised the idea of protein combining in her book "Diet for a Small Planet" in the '70s, however in her revised edition: "Diet for a Small Planet 10th Anniversary Revised Edition" she has since renounced it. The 1988 position paper of the American Dietetic Association emphasized that, because amino acids obtained from food can combine with amino acids made in the body it is not necessary to combine protein foods at each meal. Adequate amounts of amino acids will be obtained if a varied vegan diet - containing unrefined grains, legumes, seeds, nuts and vegetables - is eaten on a daily basis. "Food combining" is another term for the Hay diet and has nothing to do with the concept of protein combining.

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gaijin178 said:
Ok, this is my last post because this is getting really stupid.. I know that you are trying to use humor to prove your point and make people think as you liked to put it. But the joke is really getting old. You haven't thought up any new jokes, so no, your posts don't make me think. Well, the only thing that it makes me think is that they are not worth listening to.

And by the way, I am not starving myself to death because I don't eat meat. Like I said at least 3 times before, vegetarians pretty much like to just be left alone and me being one does nothing to you or your family or your religious faith so back off.

they like to be left alone until they lecture me for "Killing innocent cows"

Well I wanna go on the offensive too... Plants are God's creations too, and are treated MUCH worse than cows.
 
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gaijin178

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Ok, so I am posting again...you must live in an area where there are a lot of militant vegetarians telling you to stop eating meat or else you must be connected to the meat industry in some way.

Here is some Buddhist information about vegetarianism that you might find interesting. It shows that not all of us are telling you that you are wrong and that you shouldn't lump all vegetarians into one nice little package like you have tried to do in this thread. Ah yes, stereotypes are based on some form of truth but it is wrong to assume that all people in a particular stereotype are part of it.

From www.urbandharma.org

Are all Buddhists vegetarians?

No. The First Precept admonishes us to refrain from killing, but meat eating is not regarded as an instance of killing, and it is not forbidden in the scriptures. (We are speaking here mainly of the Pali scriptures. Some of the Mahayana scriptures, notably the Lankavatara Sutra, take a strong position in favor of vegetarianism. Also see Note below)

As recorded in the Pali scriptures, the Buddha did not prohibit consumption of meat, even by monks. In fact, he explicitly rejected a suggestion from Devadatta to do so. In modern Theravada societies, a bhikkhu who adheres to vegetarianism to impress others with his superior spirituality may be committing an infringement of the monastic rules.

On the other hand, the Buddha categorically prohibited consumption of the flesh of any animal that was "seen, heard or suspected" to have been killed specifically for the benefit of monks (Jivaka Sutta, Majjhima Nikaya 55). This rule technically applies only to monastics, but it can be used as a reasonable guide by devout lay people.

To understand this "middle path" approach to meat-eating, we have to remember that there were no "Buddhists" in Shakyamuni's time. There were only mendicants of various kinds (including the Buddha's disciples), plus lay people who gave them alms out of respect without necessarily worrying about the brand name of the teachings.

If meat was what a householder chose to offer, it was to be accepted without discrimination or aversion. To reject such an offering would be an offense against hospitality and would deprive the householder of an opportunity to gain merit -- and it could not benefit the animal, because it was already dead. Even the Jains may have had a similar outlook during the same period of history, despite the strict doctrine of ahimsa.

Vegetarianism could not become a source of serious controversy in the bhikkhu sangha until the rise of fixed-abode monastic communities in which the monks did not practice daily alms-round. Any meat provided to such a community by lay people would almost certainly have been killed specifically for the monks. That may be one reason for the difference in Mahayana and Theravada views on meat eating -- the development of monastic communities of this type occurred principally within Mahayana.

The issue of meat eating raises difficult ethical questions. Isn't the meat in a supermarket or restaurant killed "for" us? Doesn't meat eating entail killing by proxy?

Few of us are in a position to judge meat eaters or anyone else for "killing by proxy." Being part of the world economy entails "killing by proxy" in every act of consumption. The electricity that runs our computers comes from facilities that harm the environment. Books of Buddhist scriptures are printed on paper produced by an industry that destroys wildlife habitat. Worms, insects, rodents and other animals are routinely killed en masse in the course of producing the staples of a vegetarian diet. Welcome to samsara. It is impossible for most of us to free ourselves from this web; we can only strive to be mindful of entanglement in it. One way to do so is to reflect on how the suffering and death of sentient beings contributes to our comfort. This may help us to be less inclined to consume out of mere greed.

All of that having been said, it cannot be denied that the economic machine which produces meat also creates fear and suffering for a large number of animals. It is useful to bear this in mind even if one consumes meat, to resist developing a habit of callousness. Many Buddhists (especially Mahayanists) practice vegetarianism as a means of cultivating compassion.

The Jivaka Sutta hints that one could also make a good case for vegetarianism starting from any of the other brahmaviharas (loving-kindness, sympathetic joy, equanimity). Interestingly, it is loving-kindness rather than compassion that is mentioned first in the Jivaka Sutta.

If you are considering trying out vegetarianism for the first time, we suggest discussing it with someone who has experience. There are a few issues that ought to be considered regarding balanced diet, etc.
 
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