Education

[Matt.9:22]

If he can deal with me having more education (most problems crop up when the woman is better educated/ employed/ paid), then I don't really have a problem with it. I do want that he be intelligent, open to learning, and either have at least a diploma or a GED, because you can't work in America without at least that. However, a college education is not equal to intelligence. My uncle is one of the most intelligent, hard working men I have ever met and he only has a GED. However, he has a full time job as a manager at a manufacturing plant, and owns his own business on the side.

 

[Peacemonger]

I want my girl to have at least a Master's, probably more.

 

[Matt.9:22]

I want my girl to have at least a Master's, probably more.

There's nothing wrong with that. As long as you have a Master's or more. It's not fair to hold others to standards you don't hold yourself to.* It's kind of like the saying goes, "You're so busy looking for Mr./Mrs. Perfect. What are you doing that would make him/her look for you?"

*Not saying that you do. This is just a general statement that your comment made me think of.

 

[Peacemonger]

There's nothing wrong with that. As long as you have a Master's or more. It's not fair to hold others to standards you don't hold yourself to.* It's kind of like the saying goes, "You're so busy looking for Mr./Mrs. Perfect. What are you doing that would make him/her look for you?"

*Not saying that you do. This is just a general statement that your comment made me think of.

Absolutely.

I really have this thing against double standards, so I'm tryin' to walk the walk too. And I'm not really "busy looking" for anything right now. I'll just do my own thing and the best stuff happens when we run into each other naturally.

Just kidding! I have a 6th grade education and missing teeth but I want a rich sugarmomma. Woe is me.

 

[Matt.9:22]

Absolutely.

I really have this thing against double standards, so I'm tryin' to walk the walk too. And I'm not really "busy looking" for anything right now. I'll just do my own thing and the best stuff happens when we run into each other naturally.

Just kidding! I have a 6th grade education and missing teeth but I want a rich sugarmomma. Woe is me.

lol. Insanity is unbecoming.

 

[VozNocturna]

Well yeah, I have learned not to take the 'lists' too seriously. But I remember having seen a couple of really long ones in here and it kind of tells me that at least if someone from the CF was to pursue them that would take a really great sense of humor. But that's not a problem for CF'ers, right?



Yeah, that's something I, too, have only heard in movies, I think. Used about men. Weird stuff. And a girl calling me by that name..

And yes, I 'value' education. But when someone feels like they have to get into the doctor's/lawyer's program and graduate in the ideal timetable with excellent grades just because they've intellectually gifted and probably their parents and other family members except them to become something 'great' (in their reading of the word 'great'), then I feel sorry for them. Everyone should be let feel free to make it their own way. It's good that you feel free of outside pressures.

So far, I have yet to see anyone on this thread post a list or say that a certain level of education is a mandated requirement. And, I have yet to see someone on this thread say that they are educating themselves to fulfill their parents wishes, so I fail to understand the antagonism in your post to people who have stated education is a value. You also seem to be criticizing those of us who are truly using our education as gifts or careers. Daniel was an intellectual and used it to glorify God.


It's like the people getting up in arms when someone stated they preferred to marry a virgin. These are all highly theoretical discussions that, as you pointed out, are subject to change once we meet the right person. There is nothing wrong in setting high standards--not superficial--standards for oneself.

It's funny that you mention this, because my parents wanted so badly for me to be a doctor. I went to college, took on the most rigorous science courses and nearly ruined my career, "convinced" that I was meant to be a doctor. During my third year, I decided to follow my "calling" and study literature. My family was incensed because I was pursuing a "useless" degree. Then they tried to convince me to attend law school (because all lawyers are inherently good writers ) and, for a while, I convinced myself I could do this. That didn't happen. They gave up on me. LOL. Then, after many years, I decided to pursue graduate studies on MY terms, studying what I LOVE: literature. I wanted NOTHING to do with academia when I graduated from college and ran far from it. But, in the end, God called me to the thing I love.

My family is SO proud that I'm pursuing a doctoral degree. For them, it IS about prestige sleep: ). Now, certain meddling family members are trying to convince me--at 30-years-old--that once I get my degree I should go into something "lucrative". I just listen and let it go in one ear and out the other. I am doing what I love for ME and God--not to impress anyone. A lot of us see education as a way to impact the world, our communities, ourselves (and yes, God obviously is the ONLY answer).


A lot of us are also speaking from experience. In my early 20s, I was in a relationship with someone who had a degree, but couldn't articulate a thoughtful discussion (goes to show that a piece of paper is not an indicator of real knowledge). For ME, that was painfully frustrating because I'm someone who likes to talk AND think. If I'd ask him, "What do you think about so and so", he'd NEVER have a response. Some people place looks and wealth at the top of their "list," I don't. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to communicate with someone you care for. I'm thankful for that experience because it made realize that when looks, sex and money fade, there better be SUBSTANCE left in the relationship--and I think this is why education (TRUE knowledge) is important to me.

This isn't about prestige, a piece of paper that will get burned up one day, or being something "great". It is so much deeper than that.

Now, not everyone has to have this value. Some people may not need to be stimulated in this area. And that's totally fine. We all have different needs.

 

[Macrina]

I value education and lifelong learning. I have spent some of the best years of my life in a university setting. I enjoy reading and talking about things that I've read. It's likely that I would be drawn most toward people who share some or all of these traits.

For me, it doesn't have anything to do with profession or income. It has to do with the fact that I have a strong scholarly side and would probably feel most "in-tune" with someone similar. (Read: Nerds of a feather flock together. )

 

[VozNocturna]

I value education and lifelong learning. I have spent some of the best years of my life in a university setting. I enjoy reading and talking about things that I've read. It's likely that I would be drawn most toward people who share some or all of these traits.

For me, it doesn't have anything to do with profession or income. It has to do with the fact that I have a strong scholarly side and would probably feel most "in-tune" with someone similar. (Read: Nerds of a feather flock together. )

This sums up EXACTLY what I was thinking!!!

Thank you for saying what i wanted to say so...succinctly. You know we can be long-winded.

 

[Macrina]

This sums up EXACTLY what I was thinking!!!

Thank you for saying what i wanted to say so...succinctly. You know we can be long-winded.

Heh, I agreed with what you said, too. I think academic types (I decided not to pursue a scholarly career, but I'm still an academia nut) are a strange and obsessed breed, and we tend to seek out people who can understand our weirdities, because most of the world looks at us and our priorities and says, "are you out of your MIND!??!"

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

When dating someone or thinking about a future partner... how important is it for that person to have the same amount of education as (or even more than) yourself? Is that a priority of yours in any way?

If it was a priority to someone, what would you think?

See [thread=2837380]this thread[/thread].

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

Saying that I will only date/marry a woman with whom I can share my intellectual interests is like saying that I will only date/marry a woman with whom I can share my interest in Cincinnati Reds baseball.

Why do people demand that a spouse share with them everything that they value? Why do people demand that a spouse have in common with them everything that interests them?

If I marry I am not going to be spending twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year with my wife.

There will be plenty of time to share my interest in baseball, the social sciences, politics, or whatever, with other people.

There will be plenty of time for my wife to share her interest in gardening, geneaology, the stock market, or whatever, with other people.

The important thing is that we do not hinder each other as we pursue our respective interests and passions. People do not have to be carbon copies of each other to not hinder each other.

More importantly, the differences between the two of us with respect to interests and passions must not hinder the development of any children we might have. Children should be able to develope their own interests and passions.

Why do people feel the need to degrade anything that they do not value? Why can't we appreciate everybody's intellectual life and everybody's formal education in all of their varying forms and degrees?

I find women with intellectual and educational backgrounds different from mine to be interesting. It would be rewarding, I think, to marry a woman who is, for example, an entrepreneur, even though my personality and aptitudes are in fields of study and work that are completely different from that.

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

Motivation and intelligence is very important to me. Usually, this manefests itself in education these days...I would be very turned off if a girl was to say that she has been a casheir for the last 10 years. Whats the reason for that? Education is cheap and very available these days...

Formal post-secondary education is not for everybody. However, the system in the United States--especially evident in the phenomenon of credentialism--is structured to reward people who have formal post-secondary education and penalize people who do not, whether it is the best fit for a person or not.

Cheap and available? There is no such thing as a free lunch, economists like to tell us. "Education" has costs, not just benefits. When "education" is available mostly at the expense of other alternatives, it is not "cheap".

Yet, people come to this thread and state that there is no correlation between formal schooling and knowledge/intelligence as if they think that they are making some original observation. In reality it is no wonder that a lot of people with formal post-secondary education do not have exceptional knowledge and skills.

Believe it or not, some people are happy--and are probably best suited--being a cashier.

And believe it or not, some people work hard at and take a lot of pride in being a cashier.

 

[Silver Speak]

Believe it or not, some people are happy--and are probably best suited--being a cashier.

I'm a cashier Not quite content being a cashier but hey.. It's just to save up and support myself before I go to school and while it really sucks sometimes I think it's a good (although tough) school to go through. I love how I've experienced so many different things and so many different careers by the time I go to school; I learned something from each phase. For example, you gain great communication skills from talking to people all day long.

And believe it or not, some people work hard at and take a lot of pride in being a cashier.

That's true. I actually admire people who do it with a smile year after year. You can't draw your conclusions based on someone's profession. I think it's silly how it's assumed that these people have no ambition, whatsoever. Okay, it's not for me in the long run but that doesn't mean it's a pain to everyone.

I do want to go to school and all that but I'm in no hurry.

 

[Suomipoika]

So far, I have yet to see anyone on this thread post a list or say that a certain level of education is a mandated requirement. And, I have yet to see someone on this thread say that they are educating themselves to fulfill their parents wishes, so I fail to understand the antagonism in your post to people who have stated education is a value. You also seem to be criticizing those of us who are truly using our education as gifts or careers. Daniel was an intellectual and used it to glorify God.

Sorry, seems that I've been misunderstood as badly as one can be, but I don't have lots of time to correct myself right now. Will be back later..

 

[Matt.9:22]

Believe it or not, some people are happy--and are probably best suited--being a cashier.

And believe it or not, some people work hard at and take a lot of pride in being a cashier.

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but you say it as though anybody who is a cashier is bottom of the barrel. I'm a cashier. I've been a cashier for almost a year. I'm also a full time college student, one year away from graduation, with a 3.949 GPA (on a 4.0 scale). I speak two languages (three if you count sign language, and I'm a year away from being certified to teach. So being a cashier in no way signifies that I'm dumb or bottom of the barrel. I work as a cashier to help pay tuition, pay for textbooks and supplementals, pay for car insurance and gas, and to save up for a study abroad trip. However, I still get customers who treat me like I'm an illiterate, drop-out, drain on the welfare system, because all they see is a cashier.

 

[Tuffguy]

Formal post-secondary education is not for everybody. However, the system in the United States--especially evident in the phenomenon of credentialism--is structured to reward people who have formal post-secondary education and penalize people who do not, whether it is the best fit for a person or not.

Cheap and available? There is no such thing as a free lunch, economists like to tell us. "Education" has costs, not just benefits. When "education" is available mostly at the expense of other alternatives, it is not "cheap".

Yet, people come to this thread and state that there is no correlation between formal schooling and knowledge/intelligence as if they think that they are making some original observation. In reality it is no wonder that a lot of people with formal post-secondary education do not have exceptional knowledge and skills.

Believe it or not, some people are happy--and are probably best suited--being a cashier.

And believe it or not, some people work hard at and take a lot of pride in being a cashier.

It may not be cheap over all (if you look at all the subsidized aspect of it) but community colleges are pretty darn cheap. I got my AS at a very good community college for about 1200 per semester. That is cheap.
Later on i was paying about 10,000 per semester at a private engineering school.

On my example of a person who is a career cashier...that is all well and good, but that person isn't for me. The question is how important is education? Not, what vocations do you respect.

 

[Suomipoika]

So far, I have yet to see anyone on this thread post a list or say that a certain level of education is a mandated requirement. And, I have yet to see someone on this thread say that they are educating themselves to fulfill their parents wishes, so I fail to understand the antagonism in your post to people who have stated education is a value. You also seem to be criticizing those of us who are truly using our education as gifts or careers. Daniel was an intellectual and used it to glorify God.

When I was referring to 'lists', I meant 'checklists'/'want lists' in general and when I said 'in here' I meant 'on this forum', not 'in this thread'. Reading the couple of posts before that you'll see the context.

I didn't imply anything about someone in this thread educating themselves to fulfill their parents wishes, and no way did I mean to sound antagonistic toward people who value education. Maybe you just read my post too quickly and let some kind of mistaken first impression colour the whole rest of the message. Yeah, I wrote "I 'value' education" - 'value' in apostrophes. Really, I meant that I do VALUE education, but maybe I just put it in apostrophes to give an impression that education shouldn't be the thing that makes a person valuable, I don't know.

I don't think I criticized people who are "truly using their education as gifts or careers". Where and whydid you think I was saying something like that? I'm studying for a university degree myself, I like the stuff that I'm studying and most likely I'll get to make some use of it in the working life in a few years if the guy up there allows.

It's like the people getting up in arms when someone stated they preferred to marry a virgin. These are all highly theoretical discussions that, as you pointed out, are subject to change once we meet the right person. There is nothing wrong in setting high standards--not superficial--standards for oneself.

Once again if you mean what I was saying and joking about the 'lists', well like I said even though I've learned to not take them too seriously, I'd try to be careful about what kind of lists of 'qualifications' or 'standards' I publish (I haven't published my first one, so far). I probably wouldn't like to live in a culture of arranged marriages, but on the other hand, if I absolutely had to declare it out loud what kind of an awesome, intelligent, motivated, confident, godly, humorous, adventorous etc. girl would qualify as a potential better half for Suomipoika, however little serious I would be about this, there would still be a chance that I would make someone - especially someone who is not that confident about herself - feel undesirable. People have 'standards', yes, or 'preferences' or anyways some reasons to why they're attracted in a romantic way to someone and want to be with them but don't feel the same way for others. Those things might be something very difficult to exactly put your finger on. Everyone's free to write a list of their 'standards' if they want to and if they're able to, but when publishing one's lists (whether superficial or other ones), I'd advise a Christian to try to be considerate toward those who don't feel very good about themselves. Seeing your Christian brothers and sisters consistently listing characteristics that you feel out of reach as being the desirable ones could be depressive to someone. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid.. dang, what a long essey!

It's funny that you mention this, because my parents wanted so badly for me to be a doctor. I went to college, took on the most rigorous science courses and nearly ruined my career, "convinced" that I was meant to be a doctor. During my third year, I decided to follow my "calling" and study literature. My family was incensed because I was pursuing a "useless" degree. Then they tried to convince me to attend law school (because all lawyers are inherently good writers ) and, for a while, I convinced myself I could do this. That didn't happen. They gave up on me. LOL. Then, after many years, I decided to pursue graduate studies on MY terms, studying what I LOVE: literature. I wanted NOTHING to do with academia when I graduated from college and ran far from it. But, in the end, God called me to the thing I love.

My family is SO proud that I'm pursuing a doctoral degree. For them, it IS about prestige. Now, certain meddling family members are trying to convince me--at 30-years-old--that once I get my degree I should go into something "lucrative". I just listen and let it go in one ear and out the other. I am doing what I love for ME and God--not to impress anyone. A lot of us see education as a way to impact the world, our communities, ourselves (and yes, God obviously is the ONLY answer).


A lot of us are also speaking from experience. In my early 20s, I was in a relationship with someone who had a degree, but couldn't articulate a thoughtful discussion (goes to show that a piece of paper is not an indicator of real knowledge). For ME, that was painfully frustrating because I'm someone who likes to talk AND think. If I'd ask him, "What do you think about so and so", he'd NEVER have a response. Some people place looks and wealth at the top of their "list," I don't. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to communicate with someone you care for. I'm thankful for that experience because it made realize that when looks, sex and money fade, there better be SUBSTANCE left in the relationship--and I think this is why education (TRUE knowledge) is important to me.

This isn't about prestige, a piece of paper that will get burned up one day, or being something "great". It is so much deeper than that.

Now, not everyone has to have this value. Some people may not need to be stimulated in this area. And that's totally fine. We all have different needs.

To prove that we really agree on the subject, I'm going to give you some rep points as soon as I get this post written. That was really good stuff you wrote, great attitude!

 

[Macrina]

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but you say it as though anybody who is a cashier is bottom of the barrel. I'm a cashier. I've been a cashier for almost a year. I'm also a full time college student, one year away from graduation, with a 3.949 GPA (on a 4.0 scale). I speak two languages (three if you count sign language, and I'm a year away from being certified to teach. So being a cashier in no way signifies that I'm dumb or bottom of the barrel. I work as a cashier to help pay tuition, pay for textbooks and supplementals, pay for car insurance and gas, and to save up for a study abroad trip. However, I still get customers who treat me like I'm an illiterate, drop-out, drain on the welfare system, because all they see is a cashier.

I know what you're talking about. When I was a student, I worked some non-glamorous jobs to make ends meet. When I was waitressing, for example, I would spend my days in class, where I was respected, and my nights in a restaurant where people assumed I was somewhat less intelligent than the saltshaker.

But that's a tangent, since the topic at hand is intelligence, not career choice -- I just thought I'd tell you I know where you're coming from.

 

[Tuffguy]

Totally. Bad jobs are sometimes a means to an end. I've had some super bad jobs. I remember one summer i spent in a rubber suit sandblasting iron parts in the middle of a field. Sometimes i'd be stuck laying under a train with a grinder, in all kinds of filth, grinding rust off the fuel tank. That was pretty rough.
I still work in manufacturing, so all that experience really paid off even though it sucked at the time.

 

[Macrina]

Totally. Bad jobs are sometimes a means to an end. I've had some super bad jobs. I remember one summer i spent in a rubber suit sandblasting iron parts in the middle of a field. Sometimes i'd be stuck laying under a train with a grinder, in all kinds of filth, grinding rust off the fuel tank. That was pretty rough.
I still work in manufacturing, so all that experience really paid off even though it sucked at the time.

Yeah, it does pay off. Literally, at times. I earned way more waiting tables than I did when I worked at a Christian bookstore.

When you were working those jobs, did you find that people made assumptions about your intelligence based on what you were doing?