Eating pork and shellfish is a grave sin.

[thereselittleflower]

True...but Jesus gave us more than freedom from the Old Covenant. He set up Sacraments which are necessary. Read John 6, etc.

Yes, and we have been given a NEW food . . a heavenly food! This is the only food we are required to partake of as oft as we will . . .


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

hello thereselittleflower

And another fine post by a fine lady in christ! To bad symes ingnores all this things.

yours in Christ
deu58

Well, thank you and to you also flesh99

But really, I am very interested in what Symes would have to say about these two posts specifically

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1696211&postcount=95

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1696211&postcount=96


I honestly do not see how anyone can hold to claiming that we are bound to eat only Old Testament clean foods in light of what Paul told christians to do in those passages . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Salvatore Gonzales]

Colossians 3:12-17

1 Timothy 5:1-2

1 Peter 3:8-12

 

[thereselittleflower]

Colossians 3:12-17

1 Timothy 5:1-2

1 Peter 3:8-12

????

Perhaps you could explain how you see these verses fitting in with the topic of this thread or how you think we should view them?




Peace in Him!

 

[Salvatore Gonzales]

Perhaps you could explain how you see these verses fitting in with the topic of this thread or how you think we should view them?

IMHO, to be wary of getting lost in the details
and engaging in petty squabbling.

Peace in Him!

And only through Him.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Salvatore Gonzales: It is never wrong to address false doctrine such as the abstaining from certain meats. Paul addressed the church in Galatia as: You foolish Galations, when they were teaching people to be under the Law. It is necessity to combat false teachings, teaching in fact that are refered to in this manner:

1 Timothy 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

The emphasis is obviously mine, but if Paul attacked those doctrines with such vehemence as to call the doctrines of demons then why should we not refute them with the same vigor?

 

[Salvatore Gonzales]

Again, ad infinitum, those of us who make a promise
to God and want to combine Spirit and Law must
follow that. Paul was specifically citing people who
followed Law *without* Spirit or those who felt that
membership/titles/genes in a particular group were
enough.

My point now is that the food issue is nitpicky on
*how* the Law is applied which was warned against.

If this issue was of such great importance, Jesus
might also have spent more time on it and cleared
it up. Instead, He had people pass around fish
and loaves until there was enough to *feed the hungry.*

I don't know what a modern Jesus would do if all
He had was a bag of pork rinds and a ham sandwich
available for 60000 people at the superdome.
I think we all know what the original Jewish Rabbi
Jesus ate --a Torah diet.

Is it possible that *both* are ok? Can someone
who keeps the Torah diet and someone else
who keeps the Gentile diet be equal? Is that what
the NT would give us?

Our Master also showed us that food was of
minor importance. He told the devil this during
the time in the desert.

So again, Brothers and Sisters, why so much
fuss over small stones when there are large
boulders in the way of the Church at this time?

 

[deu58]

Again, ad infinitum, those of us who make a promise
to God and want to combine Spirit and Law must
follow that. Paul was specifically citing people who
followed Law *without* Spirit or those who felt that
membership/titles/genes in a particular group were
enough.

My point now is that the food issue is nitpicky on
*how* the Law is applied which was warned against.

If this issue was of such great importance, Jesus
might also have spent more time on it and cleared
it up. Instead, He had people pass around fish
and loaves until there was enough to *feed the hungry.*

I don't know what a modern Jesus would do if all
He had was a bag of pork rinds and a ham sandwich
available for 60000 people at the superdome.
I think we all know what the original Jewish Rabbi
Jesus ate --a Torah diet.

Is it possible that *both* are ok? Can someone
who keeps the Torah diet and someone else
who keeps the Gentile diet be equal? Is that what
the NT would give us?

Our Master also showed us that food was of
minor importance. He told the devil this during
the time in the desert.

So again, Brothers and Sisters, why so much
fuss over small stones when there are large
boulders in the way of the Church at this time?

hello salvatore

Because there are some here who beleive you will be judged with the wicked and condemned to hell because of what you eat.

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[thereselittleflower]

hello salvatore

Because there are some here who beleive you will be judged with the wicked and condemned to hell because of what you eat.

yours in Christ
deu58

Yes, and it is such claims that can cause those not well grounded in the word to stumble in their faith . . It is important to differentiate between what is nit-picking and what needs to be clearly spoken against . .

but if you can't get someone who makes such claims to engage you in honest dialogue, then what can you do except state the truth . .


Peace in Him!

 

[servant4ever]

You cannot show me one place in the New testament to say that we are not under the food laws. God cannot change. Are you really serious in saying that from say the birth of Christ that pigs are now clean. How can God change things from unclean to clean? He never did and never will.

I'm sorry if I am repeating here, I am not going to look through all the posts, but Hebrews 8:13 states that "by calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear (NIV)." To me at least, the Old Law is obsolete, which means it is invalid. We are under grace and love, not legalistic laws.

In Matthew, Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith, says that "the things that come out of the mouth fome from teh heart, and these make a man 'unclean (15:18, NIV).'" In Mark's interpretation, he says "in saying this, Jesus declared all foods 'clean.'(7:19b, NIV)" We are free to eat any food we want. We are under love and grace, not under legalistic rules and laws. I can go on, I wrote a 12-page paper on this, but I don't have time.

Have a blessed evening,

servant4ever

 

[Symes]

I'm sorry if I am repeating here, I am not going to look through all the posts, but Hebrews 8:13 states that "by calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear (NIV)." To me at least, the Old Law is obsolete, which means it is invalid. We are under grace and love, not legalistic laws.

In Matthew, Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith, says that "the things that come out of the mouth fome from teh heart, and these make a man 'unclean (15:18, NIV).'" In Mark's interpretation, he says "in saying this, Jesus declared all foods 'clean.'(7:19b, NIV)" We are free to eat any food we want. We are under love and grace, not under legalistic rules and laws. I can go on, I wrote a 12-page paper on this, but I don't have time.

Have a blessed evening,

servant4ever

servant4ever

Tell me in simple terms what do you consider the old covenant to be?

When you understand what the old covenant is it is not too hard to comprehend what is going on.

 

[servant4ever]

I think the Old Testament Laws in itself (Mosaic Law, dietary laws, etc.) are invalid for Christians today. Jesus even broke the Sabbath (Luke 13:10-17 for instance). Jesus came to break the law and to bring grace and love to the world. We need to live in grace and love. For we know Ephesians 2:8-9, it is NOT BY WORKS we are saved, it is by grace. Then if we are not saved by the law, then why do we have to follow it? The only commands Jesus gives are based around love, love God and neighbors. Murdering is not loving neighbors. Stealing is not loving neighbors. Jesus repeats these. Jesus cares more about the heart, which the new law is written on (Jeremiah 31:33). If anyone is interested, I have a paper about this, just send me a PM and I will figure out a way to send it to you.

servant4ever

 

[Radagast]

Amen, the Bible says not to eat pork so why go against what the good Book says?

Didn't you read the verses I quoted? They seemed very clear...

-- Radagast

 

[deu58]

Didn't you read the verses I quoted? They seemed very clear...

-- Radagast

Hello radagast

Go look at the pork and sabbath threads and you will quickly see Symes does not read anything but is always demanding more proof

yours in christ
deu58

 

[joshua_cheung]

I have this understanding.

The New covenant is for the Jews and Gentiles. However the Old covenant is still valid and it is for Jews only. This is an agreement between Jews and God.
If you are Jews, you should not eat pork, blood and shellfish.
If you are christians and Jews, you should not eat pork , blood and shelfish.
If you are not Jews but Christians, all food is clean. However, if you think that it is unclean, then don't eat it. However, don't judge others if they eat pork or shellfish.

 

[servant4ever]

Hello Joshua_cheung,

Do you have any Biblical passages to back your belief up?

servant4ever

 

[nephilimiyr]

I think it's about time symes answer's these questions!

Symes you still need to prove the following, and I am adding to the list:

NOTHING doesn't mean NOTHING

NOTHING is to be refused...

EVERY doesn't mean EVERY

Every creature God created is good...

CREATURE doesn't mean CREATURE

Every creature God created is good...

Why God didn't correct Peter on the meaning of the vision when it is clear he thought it was about food, and realized the second meaning later.

Why Christ himself said "It is not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles him."

 

[Icystwolf]

I have this understanding.

The New covenant is for the Jews and Gentiles. However the Old covenant is still valid and it is for Jews only. This is an agreement between Jews and God.
If you are Jews, you should not eat pork, blood and shellfish.
If you are christians and Jews, you should not eat pork , blood and shelfish.
If you are not Jews but Christians, all food is clean. However, if you think that it is unclean, then don't eat it. However, don't judge others if they eat pork or shellfish.

Yes, but you know that, Jews can't reach salvation...else they'd have to be perfect.....

 

[Icystwolf]

Hello radagast

Go look at the pork and sabbath threads and you will quickly see Symes does not read anything but is always demanding more proof

yours in christ
deu58

An excellent observation!

 

[joshua_cheung]

Jesus Christ teached his teachings at a mountain.
Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.'