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Easiest Defense of Sola Scriptura

PeaceByJesus

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From Assumption supporter RC Lawrence P. Everett, C.Ss.R., S.T.D.:

In the first three centuries there are absolutely no references in the authentic works of the Fathers or ecclesiastical writers to the death or bodily immortality of Mary. Nor is there any mention of a tomb of Mary in the first centuries of Christianity. The veneration of the tomb of the Blessed Virgin at Jerusalem began about the middle of the fifth century; and even here there is no agreement as to whether its locality was in the Garden of Olives or in the Valley of Josaphat. Nor is any mention made in the Acts of the Council of Ephesus (431) of the fact that the Council, convened to defend the Divine Maternity of the Mother of God, is being held in the very city selected by God for her final resting place. Only after the Council did the tradition begin which placed her tomb in that city.

The earliest known (non-Apocryphal) mention concerning the end of Mary's life appears in the writings of St. Epiphanius, Bishop of Constantia,.. in his Panarion or Medicine Chest (of remedies for all heresies), written in c. 377: "Whether she died or was buried we know not."

...And with the exception of a so-called contemporary of Epiphanius, Timothy of Jerusalem, who said: "Wherefore the Virgin is immortal up to now, because He who dwelt in her took her to the regions of the Ascension,"9(After a very thorough and scholarly investigation the author concludes that Timothy is an unknown author who lived between the sixth and seventh centuries (p. 23). no early writer ever doubted the fact of her death....

In the Munificentissimus Deus Pope Pius XII quotes but three Fathers of the Church, all Orientals. St. John Damascene (d. 749)...St. Germanus of Constantinople (d. 733) ...St. Modestus of Jerusalem (d. 634)...

Apart from the Apocrypha, there is no authentic witness to the Assumption among the Fathers of either the East or the West prior to the end of the fifth century.

The first remote testimony to which Pope Pius XII turns in order to indicate the fact that our present belief in the Assumption of the Blessed Mother was likewise the belief of the Church from the earliest times is the Sacred Liturgy...

...The feast of the Assumption began in the East as did many of the older Marian feasts... However, due to the fact that neither Sacred Scripture nor early Tradition speaks explicitly of the last days of our Blessed Mother on earth and of her Assumption into heaven, the liturgy of this feast did not mention them either. Later, when the apocryphal Transitus Mariae ” in which the death and Assumption of Mary are described in detail ” became popular among the faithful, the facts of her death and Assumption were inserted into the feast... - https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=469

And William Webster documents,

...the Roman Catholic writer Eamon Duffy concedes that, ˜there is, clearly, no historical evidence whatever for it ...' (Eamon Duffy, What Catholics Believe About Mary (London: Catholic Truth Society, 1989), p. 17).

How then did this teaching come to have such prominence in the Church that eventually led it to be declared an issue of dogma in 1950? The first Church father to affirm explicitly the assumption of Mary in the West was Gregory of Tours in 590 A.D. But the basis for his teaching was not the tradition of the Church but his acceptance of an apocryphal Gospel known as the Transitus Beatae Mariae which we first hear of at the end of the fifth century and which was spuriously attributed to Melito of Sardis. There were many versions of this literature which developed over time and which were found throughout the East and West but they all originated from one source.

[The eminent Mariologist, Juniper Carol, O.F.M.] gives the following historical summary of the Transitus literature:

An intriguing corpus of literature on the final lot of Mary is formed by the apocryphal Transitus Mariae. The genesis of these accounts is shrouded in history's mist. They apparently originated before the close of the fifth century, perhaps in Egypt, perhaps in Syria, in consequence of the stimulus given Marian devotion by the definition of the divine Maternity at Ephesus. The period of proliferation is the sixth century. At least a score of Transitus accounts are extant, in Coptic, Greek, Latin, Syriac, Arabic, Ethiopic, and Armenian. Not all are prototypes, for many are simply variations on more ancient models (Juniper Carol, O.F.M. ed., Mariology, Vol. II (Milwaukee: Bruce, 1957), p. 144).


The first express witness in the West to a genuine assumption comes to us in an apocryphal Gospel, the Transitus Beatae Mariae of Pseudo –Melito' (Juniper Carol, O.F.M. ed., Mariology, Vol. l (Milwaukee: Bruce, 1957), p. 149).

Also,

The account of Pseudo-Melito, like the rest of the Transitus literature, is admittedly valueless as history, as an historical report of Mary's death and corporeal assumption; under that aspect the historian is justified in dismissing it with a critical distaste (Juniper Carol, O.F.M. ed., Mariology, Vol. l (Milwaukee: Bruce, 1957), p. 150).

Also, Roman Catholic theologian, Ludwig Ott, states:

Prior to the seventh and eighth centuries there is complete patristic silence on the doctrine of the Assumption. But gradually, through the influence of numerous forgeries which were believed to be genuine, coupled with the misguided enthusiasm of popular devotion, the doctrine gained a foothold in the Church. The Dictionary of Christian Antiquities gives the following history of the doctrine:...

1)The Liber de Transitu, though classed by Gelasius with the known productions of heretics came to be attributed by one...to Melito, an orthodox bishop of Sardis, in the 2nd century, and by another to St. John the Apostle.

2) A letter suggesting the possibility of the Assumption was written and attributed to St. Jerome (ad Paulam et Eustochium de Assumptione B. Virginis, Op. tom. v. p. 82, Paris, 1706).

3) A treatise to prove it not impossible was composed and attributed to St. Augustine (Op. tom. vi. p. 1142, ed. Migne).

4) Two sermons supporting the belief were written and attributed to St. Athanasius (Op. tom. ii. pp. 393, 416, ed., Ben. Paris, 1698).

5) An insertion was made in Eusebius's Chronicle that ˜in the year 48 Mary the Virgin was taken up into heaven, as some wrote that they had had it revealed to them.' - http://www.christiantruth.com/articles/assumption.html

The church fathers of the earliest centuries repeatedly cite Enoch and Elijah as examples of people who didn't die, were translated to Heaven, etc. (Clement of Rome, First Clement, 9; Tertullian, A Treatise On The Soul, 50; Tertullian, On The Resurrection Of The Flesh, 58; Tertullian, Against Marcion, 5:12; Methodius, From The Discourse On The Resurrection, 14), yet they never say any such thing about Mary or include her as an example. Irenaeus, for instance, writes about the power of God to deliver people from death, and he cites Enoch, Elijah, and Paul (2 Corinthians 12:2) as illustrations of people who were "assumed" and "translated", but he says nothing of Mary (Against Heresies, 5:5).


A group of some of the leading Roman Catholic and Lutheran scholars in the world concluded:

"Furthermore, the notion of Mary's assumption into heaven has left no trace in the literature of the third, much less of the second century. M. Jugie, the foremost authority on this question, concluded in his monumental study: 'The patristic tradition prior to the Council of Nicaea does not furnish us with any witness about the Assumption.'" (Raymond Brown, et al., Mary In The New Testament [Mahwah: Paulist Press, 1978], p. 266)


But as shown, Ratzinger sees the solution to such lack of evidential warrant for making belief in an event over 17000 years after it allegedly occurred. Which is that Rome can claim to "remember" what she wants.

Before Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven was defined, all theological faculties in the world were consulted for their opinion. Our teachers' answer was emphatically negative... Altaner, the patrologist from Wurzburg¦had proven in a scientifically persuasive manner that the doctrine of Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven was unknown before the 5C; this doctrine, therefore, he argued, could not belong to the "apostolic tradition. And this was his conclusion, which my teachers at Munich shared.

But...subsequent "remembering" (cf. Jn 16:4, for instance) can come to recognize what it has not caught sight of previously ["caught sight of?" Because there was nothing to see in the earliest period where it should have been, before a fable developed] .." (Joseph Ratzinger, Milestones (Ignatius, n.d.), pp. 58-59; emp. mine).

However, history, tradition and Scripture is only what Rome says it is in any conflict, which reasoning no less than Manning resorted to:

It was the charge of the Reformers that the Catholic doctrines were not primitive, and their pretension was to revert to antiquity. But the appeal to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies that voice to be Divine... I may say in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity....Primitive and modern are predicates, not of truth, but of ourselves...

The only Divine evidence to us of what was primitive is the witness and voice of the Church at this hour. . — Dr. Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, Archbishop of Westminster, The Temporal Mission of the Holy Ghost: Or Reason and Revelation, , pp. 227-228.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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PeaceByJesus

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I've done research on the topic and the Immaculate Conception in Roman Catholicism actually owes its origins to eastern Mariology. Even at the time of Bernard of Clairvaux it was quite controversial with the Romans, Bernard opposed the feast day as a novel tradition.

Thus not only Scripture but Tradition as well as church teaching is subject to conflicting interpretations.
 
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Albion

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With one voice, one doctrine?
Yes.

Anglicanism is just choosing your own doctrines. I've been to an Episcopal parish before and they had a pamphlet on the Virgin Mary (among other pamphlets), and inside it said not all Anglicans believe in the Virgin Birth, but nonetheless the Virgin Mary is highly regarded.
I'd advise you not to belong to that church, if this disturbs you. That was the choice I myself made.
 
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Wrong. Show me even one instance in the life of the church (Acts oneward, which are interpretive of the gospels) in which,

1. NT pastors are called "priests" (“hiereus” or “archiereus," despite occurring over 280 times total).

Apocalypse 5:10 (revelation 5:10)

2. NT pastors engage in a unique sacerdotal function, that of offering the elements the Lord's supper as a sacrifice for sins, or even administering the Lord's supper.

Excelent go and read 1 Corinthians 10:16

But seriously, ¿Were you trully catholic? or you just went to heat the benches.

3. The people are instructed to confess their sins distinctively to NT priests as a normal practice (James 5 does not).

Go and read Acts 19:18
And read John 20:23

4. NT priests are distinctively charged with regularly hearing confessions and granting forgiveness as a part of their function, like as they are with preaching the word.

Go and read 2 Corinthians 5:18

What was that ministery o Reconciliation? Not only confession but all the other Sacraments Ordered by Jesus, God Himself.

5. NT priests are shown regularly hearing confessions of sins by the converted, apart from judicially hearing conflicts btwn believers and declaring souls guilty or innocent, along with the church.

Go and read Acts 19:18

So your unScriptural elitism makes you more Catholic than the pope and V2?

I have brought what you asked for, and thus you have not at all excuse to Repent in Tears and come back to the Church.
 
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So once again you manifest that you simply have no argument, and instead must wrest a text which every cult also abuses to manipulate those who come to see the errors of such.

The substantive Truth is that the distinctives of the church of Rome are absent from the life of the NT church, and contrary to it.

In Opposition to all other groups who go and use The Catholic Bible, The fact is that Saint John Apostle Was Refering to the TRUE CHURCH the one founded by Christ which is the Catholic Church. Yes many groups missuse the catholic bible, But We catholics know what church comes from the apostles where they remain.
 
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sculleywr

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Ah...........ya............still don't need a priest............sorry. I have a direct line to Christ. I also have christian friends and relatives that I am happy to have as sources to hold me to my word and , Yep, a conscience.

Not everyone needs counsel on dealing with passions that are being struggled with. Not everyone has such problems. And those that do are not going to be helped by telling it to a priest.
So let me guess, you never make prayer requests asking for others to intercede on behalf of yourself.

Yes, EVERYONE needs counseling. That is the nature of making disciples. If you don't have a person discipling you, then you best not be discipling others. Timothy was discipled by Paul. Ignatius was discipled by John. Clement was discipled by both Peter AND Paul. Peter was even rebuked before the entire Church in Jerusalem for hypocritical actions.

The person who thinks he can stand without counsel from someone more experienced in the Faith and trained for the purpose of discipling is someone who is neck-deep in the quicksand of sin, exactly where Satan wants him. Satan wants people to eschew counsel, which is why many of the Proverbs point to finding wise counsel. Here are just a few reasons every person in the Church needs Confession:

Proverbs 12:15 "The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice."
Proverbs 11:15 "Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety"
Proverbs 19:20-21 "Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom in the future. Many are the plans in the minds of men, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand."
Proverbs 15:22 "Without counsel, plans fail, but with many advisors, they succeed."

This is a theme throughout Scripture. Any person can pray directly to God, but God, in His wisdom, knew that even with the Spirit, men still need counseling. We are the army of the Lord. We have leaders which were placed in our lives not just to preach, but to teach and mentor us, to make us into disciples, and not simply converts. God does forgive sins when they are truly confessed, but are they truly confessed if you do not "Confess your sins one to another"? Are you truly repenting when you don't partake of a tool which God gave us for the purpose of becoming truly repentant?

I posit that the reason that sins don't get forgiven is that we are too proud to lay our lives bare before the people God put in our lives for our guidance. If the elder of a church is to function as a sort of medical assistant for the Great Physician, how can one expect to be healed of sin-sickness if one does not inform the elder of his spiritual symptoms? If I refused to tell my Gastro-enterologist about my hemorrhoids and abdominal pain, I would never have gotten the CT scan that showed the irregularity in my sigmoid colon, and would never have been diagnosed properly with ulcerative colitis.

This is what we are doing when we refuse to go to the people God instituted as authorities in our lives. Living without confession is like trying to diagnose yourself using WebMD. You are not a doctor, and even if you are, doctors do not diagnose themselves. So yes, you have a straight line to talk to God, but when you close the doors on one of the methods by which He responds, how can you rightfully expect Him to use another way? It's like the man who constantly prays to win the lottery. One day, God responded "go buy a ticket!" The prayer to win the lottery can never come true if you don't get the ticket.
 
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sculleywr

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Mere men, empowered by the Lord Jesus Christ.


They were given this authority while Christ was still on this earth. Long before there was "the church" that you speak of.

Please put the cart behind the horse again.



Yes, others wrote as they were inspired by the Holy spirit as well. This is where we get the NT. Not thousands of years later by other special people.
No. Mark and Luke never actually met Christ face to face as far as we know both in Scripture and outside of Scripture. They received the authority AFTER the Ascension. So again, the cart is in the right place.

Your problem is that you can't point to a time when the Holy Spirit reneged his promise to guide the Church. It's not there in Scripture. Scripture does not say "after the Apostles left, the age of miracles and divine guidance was over". That's a tradition of men right there.

The Church was there from the day of Pentecost, long before any of the NT was written. Mark and Luke were given authority by Paul, who we know for a fact did not meet Christ during the earthly ministry of Christ. So if Paul can confer the authority of Apostleship to these two, then he can confer that authority to anyone he deems necessary to do so. At no point did the Church lose the authority of the Apostles, because the only reason the Apostles had authority was because Christ was head of the Church and guided the Church as a whole. There is no point at which God decided to change how He structured the Church. The way it was structured in the first century, with bishops, elders, deacons, and lay-people, is the way it is now, and it has the same authority given to it by Christ in both the Apostles and the hundreds of disciples that followed them.
 
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redleghunter

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Rome just abandoned it's see for a foreign city in France (Avignon) and later, split into three factions in civil war.
You are referring to the issue of the three Popes?
 
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sculleywr

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You could be right. However what did Jesus say we live on? And where do we find that?
You're missing the point, that wasn't a limiting to the written Scripture, because Christ also took rules that were in Scripture and said point-blank that they were no longer valid, such as "eye for an eye".

We do not have a time where Scripture is called THE Logos of God. That is an exclusionary statement. The moment you change the article, you end up with heresy. There is only one Word of God. That Word is Christ.
 
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A circular argument.


Not at all, The Bible was writen by the Church and thus we know it is true, The Church is Inspired and vivified by the Holy Spirit and so the Bible, abd both, The Bible and the Church are inseparable elements of The Truth which is God Holy Spirit.

It only happens that I gave by settled that you knew that the Catholic Church as the True Church of Christ is to only where Pentecost happened and the only sent by Christ to PReach the Gospel.
 
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Read the whole chapter here. Jesus' original sheep are the people of Israel. The other sheep are the gentiles.. During this age of grace. The time from His ascension to the time of the tribulation and before the millennial age.... we are all one flock. Jew, Gentile....all as one. The old sheep and the new. Anyone who listens to His voice.


Right, and yet you denied to be Sheep.
 
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redleghunter

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No, it isn't. The change is small, and affects the Apocrypya, but the point is that when people try to argue that the canon of the 4th century is unchangable, set in stone, etc. (except that those awful Protestants did change it)....

...it's not so.

And then there are all sorts of churches that are ancient and not at all Protestant which have their own additional books that most of the rest of us have never even heard of. Someone posted a list of these awhile back, but I don't know now easy it would be to find that now.

Good source here:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon.html

Good summary here (even though Wikipedia):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Canons_of_various_Christian_traditions
 
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Just WOW.

So, what do you do with all the people who are true believers in Christ, asked for forgiveness, accepting His gift of salvation, yet were so foolish as to choose Jewish, Baptist, Pentecostal, Muslim or Scientologist parents?

The Church is Clear, those who by matter of circumstances out of their control were unable to know and enter to the Catholic Church and yet desired to be christians, they are also treated by Christ as baptized people, But those who knowing that the Catholic Church is the True Church Founded by Christ and because of hardness in their heart refuse to enter in it, can not be saved since they are rejecting to OBEY.

Now salvation is determined by your parents and their parents and their parents parents.... OH I guess you could convert to Catholicism, then you could be saved... FUNNY don't recall Jesus telling us, anywhere, that we must become Catholics in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Catholic means "According to the Whole" the whole truth, the whole doctrine, the whole teaching, for the salvation of the whole Peoples. But This is the Apostolic Church, which means that this is founded on the Apostles. And yes, Jesus Sets a Sin wich may not be forgiven neither in this life nor in the other.

Matthew 12:30-31

Then, too, I guess He lied in John 3:16 when He stated "whosoever" believeth in Him.

Just WOW I cannot believe someone posted that...

Can you say that you believe in him and yet you refuse to obey him? If he said Forgive the sins, and you deny it, if he said, My body and my blood and yet you deny it, if he said Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and yet you deny it, if He said No divorce, and yet you deny it... ¿Do you have the hypocresy of saying that you believe in him?
 
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fhansen

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Example please.
The following briefly summarizes the problems I brought up with supporting those previously mentioned doctrines with Scripture:

On the deity of Jesus:

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Matt 27:46

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.” Mark 10:18

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. John 5:30

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Matt 24:36

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” Matt 26:39

During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. Heb 5:7-9

On Baptismal regeneration-several verses might seem to deny it's necessity:

The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:29-30

Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. John 6:47

And Paul emphasized the role of faith, of course, rarely mentioning baptism at all. Here’s one verse where he did:

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 1 Cor 1:17

And, apparently, the thief on the cross didn’t seem to need it

On infant Baptism:

Virtually nothing was said about it in the bible. Believer’s baptism certainly seemed to be the norm. The only verse that might possibly support infant Baptism is found in Acts 16:33:

At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

More on whole households being baptized can be found in 1 Cor 1;16 and there are a handful of verses that indicate that salvation, at least, would come to a believer’s entire family by virtue of that believer’s faith. All in all Scripture is very vague on the subject.

On the Real Presence:

Supporters of the RP take the following verses literally:

Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. John 6:53-55

And consider them to be a fulfillment of the last Supper instructions:

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. John 6:26-27

While non-supporters point to John 6:63, characterizing Jesus’ words as strictly symbolic:

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

And also to Luke 22:19, to claim the Eucharist is solely a memorial service:

This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.
 
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redleghunter

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Christ will Save those who obeyed him, If Christ spoke of His CHURCH, and not of his CHURCHES is because he was Forming ONE FLOCK not MANY FLOCKS, Christ has ONLY ONE BODY, NOT MANY BODIES.

Hebrews 3:18-19

18 To whom did he swear that they should never attain his rest? Those who disobey him.

19 We see, then, the consequences of unbelief; this it was that denied them entrance.

18 τίσιν δὲ ὤμοσεν μὴ εἰσελεύσεσθαι εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσιν αὐτοῦ εἰ μὴ τοῖς ἀπειθήσασιν;

19 καὶ βλέπομεν ὅτι οὐκ ἠδυνήθησαν εἰσελθεῖν δι' ἀπιστίαν.


Revelation 1: Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass: and signified, sending by his angel to his servant John,

2 Who hath given testimony to the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, what things soever he hath seen.

3 Blessed is he, that readeth and heareth the words of this prophecy; and keepeth those things which are written in it; for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne,
 
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JacksBratt

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So let me guess, you never make prayer requests asking for others to intercede on behalf of yourself.
I have friends who will pray with me and for me. They cannot, however, ask for my sins to be forgiven or forgive me of my sins.

It must be my choice to admit I have sinned and ask for forgiveness.

Of what good is it to pray for the forgiveness of someone else s sins when they are not even repentant of them or in agreement or admittance that they did sin?

Also, these friends are alive and on this earth, in this dimension. You should never pray to anyone else besides the members of the trinity. This is because nobody else is even close to being worthy of the worship and authority necessary for being prayed to. And never pray to a dead person.

Yes, EVERYONE needs counseling.

The person who thinks he can stand without counsel from someone more experienced in the Faith and trained for the purpose of discipling is someone who is neck-deep in the quicksand of sin, exactly where Satan wants him. Satan wants people to eschew counsel, which is why many of the Proverbs point to finding wise counsel. Here are just a few reasons every person in the Church needs Confession:
Your point here is? Did I not already say that I have people who are there to hold me accountable and for me to go to for consultation?



Are you truly repenting when you don't partake of a tool which God gave us for the purpose of becoming truly repentant?

Being truly repentant has nothing to do with telling someone else. It is a state of the heart. Telling someone else may psychologically aid in the dealing with remorse for our sins. However, I can get on my knees in a place where I am totally alone and be fully forgiven for my sins without telling another soul except my Lord and Savior.

I believe that if you sin against another person, you should go to them and ask them to forgive you for the wrong you did to them, absolutely. However, if I curse, fornicate, or some other sin that is only against God, I need not tell anyone to be forgiven.


I posit that the reason that sins don't get forgiven is that we are too proud to lay our lives bare before the people God put in our lives for our guidance.
The reason sins are not forgiven is only because people are too proud to admit that they have sinned or are sinners. If you are humble and admit you have sinned and ask Christ for forgiveness, you are forgiven.

1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

This does not mean that God will only forgive a sin only if it has been specifically confessed.

This is what we are doing when we refuse to go to the people God instituted as authorities in our lives. Living without confession is like trying to diagnose yourself using WebMD. You are not a doctor, and even if you are, doctors do not diagnose themselves. So yes, you have a straight line to talk to God, but when you close the doors on one of the methods by which He responds, how can you rightfully expect Him to use another way? It's like the man who constantly prays to win the lottery. One day, God responded "go buy a ticket!" The prayer to win the lottery can never come true if you don't get the ticket.

When a Christian repents and believes the Gospel of Jesus Christ, all of their sins, past, present, and future are immediately forgiven!

Confessing is part of the sanctification process and aids Christians in dealing with sin and healing from it. James 5:16 says, “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.”
 
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redleghunter

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On the deity of Jesus:

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Matt 27:46

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.” Mark 10:18

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. John 5:30

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Matt 24:36


Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” Matt 26:39

During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. Heb 5:7-9

On Baptismal regeneration several verses might seem to deny it:

The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:29-30

Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. John 6:47


And Paul emphasized the role of faith, of course, rarely mentioning baptism at all. Here’s one verse where he did:

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 1 Cor 1:17

And, apparently, the thief on the cross didn’t seem to need it

On infant Baptism:

Virtually nothing was said about it in the bible. Believer’s baptism certainly seemed to be the norm. The only verse that might possibly support infant Baptism is found in Acts 16:33:

At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

More on whole households being baptized can be found in 1 Cor 1;16 and there are a handful of verses that indicate that salvation, at least, would come to a believer’s entire family by virtue of that believer’s faith. All in all Scripture is very vague on the subject.

The Real Presence:

Supporters of the RP take the following verses literally:

Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. John 6:53-55

And consider them to be a fulfillment of the last Supper instructions:

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. John 6:26-27

While non-supporters point to John 6:63, characterizing Jesus’ words as strictly symbolic:

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

And also to Luke 22:19, to claim the Eucharist is solely a memorial service:

This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.

You have given great examples of approaches which do not use Biblical exegesis.

It's the type of claim we see on the open threads from atheists and agnostics---skeptics.
 
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redleghunter

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Actually the rule for most Protestants is that He'll save those who strictly believe. Either way, would there be a "protocol" for salvation that involves Christians only?

Please explain what you are responding to.
 
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fhansen

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You have given great examples of approaches which do not use Biblical exegesis.

It's the type of claim we see on the open threads from atheists and agnostics---skeptics.
The "claim" for what? For atheism or agnosticism-or for divergent views of Scriptural meaning? Scripture speaks for itself-or does it? Is your exegesis somehow superior to someone who holds opposing views on the particular doctrines mentioned in my post? Does "best exegetical methodology", whatever that is, necessarily win the day in discovering God's nature and will for man?
 
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