Easiest Defense of Sola Scriptura

[redleghunter]

The point of following God is not that we will ever stop sinning, it is that we want to stop and try to stop. So grace is still the reason for our salvation, but effort is the command.

I will add the following to the above:

There is Grace in Justification---positional in His eyes
There is Grace in Sanctification---conforming us to the image of Christ
There is Grace in Glorification---our resurrection unto eternal life

Trust and Obey throughout. Perfect in this fallen flesh? No way, there is only One Who is perfect. He is seated at the Right Hand of Power.

 

[redleghunter]

The common thought of Peter standing at the gates of heaven with a list of names is so far off from what scripture teaches.

 

[sculleywr]

I have friends who will pray with me and for me. They cannot, however, ask for my sins to be forgiven or forgive me of my sins.

It must be my choice to admit I have sinned and ask for forgiveness.

Of what good is it to pray for the forgiveness of someone else s sins when they are not even repentant of them or in agreement or admittance that they did sin?

Also, these friends are alive and on this earth, in this dimension. You should never pray to anyone else besides the members of the trinity. This is because nobody else is even close to being worthy of the worship and authority necessary for being prayed to. And never pray to a dead person.


Your point here is? Did I not already say that I have people who are there to hold me accountable and for me to go to for consultation?




Being truly repentant has nothing to do with telling someone else. It is a state of the heart. Telling someone else may psychologically aid in the dealing with remorse for our sins. However, I can get on my knees in a place where I am totally alone and be fully forgiven for my sins without telling another soul except my Lord and Savior.

I believe that if you sin against another person, you should go to them and ask them to forgive you for the wrong you did to them, absolutely. However, if I curse, fornicate, or some other sin that is only against God, I need not tell anyone to be forgiven.



The reason sins are not forgiven is only because people are too proud to admit that they have sinned or are sinners. If you are humble and admit you have sinned and ask Christ for forgiveness, you are forgiven.

1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

This does not mean that God will only forgive a sin only if it has been specifically confessed.



When a Christian repents and believes the Gospel of Jesus Christ, all of their sins, past, present, and future are immediately forgiven!

Confessing is part of the sanctification process and aids Christians in dealing with sin and healing from it. James 5:16 says, “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.”

How can one repent of a sin he has not yet committed? If he had truly repented completely, then he would sin no more.

The fact is that Confession is obedience to James 5:16. And you do know that the word translated as healed is the same as the word translated as "saved" in other verses. This word has both meanings.

God commands us to always be repenting, not just once and done. The fact is that sin that has not yet been confessed cannot be forgiven, and since you cannot confess for what you haven't done, the logic completely falls apart that all sins are forgiven. All sins can be forgiven. But those we hide from God and from our commanded Confession before the Church are not forgiven.

However, if you have a direct line to God and don't need an elder for guidance, then you don't need to tell anyone else your needs either. You don't need to make prayer requests of other people. It's a paradox.

Besides that, where did I say that one receives forgiveness from the elder in Confession. That's not the reason he is there. He is there to stand witness to the forgiveness, not grant it. That is the Orthodox teaching of Confession.

But there's something else here: If all of our sins are already forgiven, then we have no need to confess even directly to God, much less to a human leader put in our lives by God. They're forgiven already. You don't need to mention them. If you pay the full price of a car, do you then continue giving monthly payments to the dealership for the car you bought outright? Of course not! Sure, in God's point of view, they are forgiven, because He is out of time and has already seen every instance of your life and every action you will take. But within time, confession must be made daily in prayer and regularly before an elder who will stand witness not as a mediator, but as an intercessor.

And yes, we can pray for the forgiveness of others, as well. Stephen and Christ both did that during their executions. The reason for Confession is for healing, as you said, but healing is part of salvation, because they are the same word in Greek. You could literally use heal and save interchangeably in Scripture and it would be equally true for the New Testament.

This is why Sanctification is not a separate thing from salvation. It is part and parcel of salvation

 

[redleghunter]

Likewise with "co-operative grace" and "progressive salvation".

"co-operative grace" was condemned at the Council of Orange:

http://www.reformed.org/documents/i....reformed.org/documents/canons_of_orange.html

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

Revelation 1: Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass: and signified, sending by his angel to his servant John,

2 Who hath given testimony to the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, what things soever he hath seen.

3 Blessed is he, that readeth and heareth the words of this prophecy; and keepeth those things which are written in it; for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne,

I don't get your point.

 

[redleghunter]

I think you missed Catastrophically the Book of Revelation:


Revelation 5:8

8 and when he disclosed it,[1] the four living figures and the twenty-four elders fell down in the Lamb’s presence. Each bore a harp, and they had golden bowls full of incense, the prayers of the saints.


Now, how did the Prayers of the Believers reached the bowls of the Elders in heaven???????

Speculation. The text does not indicate those prayers were offered through the elders. What is your exegesis for the use of 'saints' in the text you quote?

 

[redleghunter]

I don't get your point.

John addressed 7 churches. I keep seeing here there is only one.

 

[fhansen]

John addressed 7 churches. I keep seeing here there is only one.

"To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ--their Lord and ours:" 1 Cor 1:2

There is only one "church of God", with many particular churches based on geography.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

John addressed 7 churches. I keep seeing here there is only one.

Seven Churches... I mean are You serious?

The Gospel refers to Local Churches, Local Particular Churches in Communion, as much as Peter was in communion with the Church in Antioch, The Church in Jerusalem, and the Church in Rome. And as much as Paul sent his letters to the Church in Rome, the Church in Corinth, the Church in Philladelphia, the Church in Tesalony, etc.

You want to take advantage of the Plural conception of many Local Churches to extend it to incommunicant communities claiming to follow Jesus, each one the way the want. That is called CHEATING.

 

[redleghunter]

It still means, if interpreted the way you want, that none of us can be saved, since all are sinners. Even the just man falls seven times a day, so he'd be lost too.

Good reference to Proverbs 24:16.

 

[redleghunter]

Then let's stick with the first of those and agree that it--Works Righteousness--is not the reason any of us has the prospect of salvation.


He IS God, so of course he was sinless by nature.


Hopefully, that's so. But so also does it apply to the "good works" that such a person may perform after conversion. No one should think that these are even partially responsible for the salvation of any believer.

Luke 17 (NKJV):

7 And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down to eat’? 8 But will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. 10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’”

 

[redleghunter]

Trent was empowered to create teachings exclusive to the catholic faith. Nothing more.

Trent nuked a lot of Orange too.

http://www.reformed.org/documents/i....reformed.org/documents/canons_of_orange.html

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Trent nuked a lot of Orange too.

http://www.reformed.org/documents/i....reformed.org/documents/canons_of_orange.html

Great link there. Trent nuked quite a bit in Christ's teachings. But they would have to wouldn't they? In order to insure the Roman edifice took the place of God and Christ both.

Have you reviewed it lately? The current Pope made claims about unbelievers entering Heaven. How many of those Canon's listed in the Orange do you think he's violated to date making such claims?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I would use evidence instead of sufficiently probable.

Christianity is evidence based. Luke 24 and 1 Corinthians 15 make that quite clear.

Well, to me, its the evidence that gives a hypothesis a probability.

 

[JacksBratt]

The Church is Clear, those who by matter of circumstances out of their control were unable to know and enter to the Catholic Church and yet desired to be christians, they are also treated by Christ as baptized people, But those who knowing that the Catholic Church is the True Church Founded by Christ and because of hardness in their heart refuse to enter in it, can not be saved since they are rejecting to OBEY.



Catholic means "According to the Whole" the whole truth, the whole doctrine, the whole teaching, for the salvation of the whole Peoples. But This is the Apostolic Church, which means that this is founded on the Apostles. And yes, Jesus Sets a Sin wich may not be forgiven neither in this life nor in the other.

Matthew 12:30-31



Can you say that you believe in him and yet you refuse to obey him? If he said Forgive the sins, and you deny it, if he said, My body and my blood and yet you deny it, if he said Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and yet you deny it, if He said No divorce, and yet you deny it... ¿Do you have the hypocresy of saying that you believe in him?

So now I must become a Catholic in order to be deemed obedient to Christ and be saved?

That goes against any scripture on salvation. There is no biblical scripture that backs up that view.
Salvation is by faith alone. The faith in Jesus being the Christ. That He died and rose from the dead. That He will be faithful and just to forgive my sins if I Believe.

Nowhere does it say that anyone is not saved if they don't become a Catholic.

In fact, you don't have to be part of any man made church. You could be from any walk of life, hear a TV preacher teach the sinners prayer, submit to Christ, repent of your sins, turn from your sinful ways, live each day of your life with Christ as your compass and never ever enter a church.......you will still have salvation and live an eternal life in the presence of God.

I have never heard such arrogance..... become a Catholic or be damned.... never.

 

[redleghunter]

The word of God came to those judges orally, through the prophets, not through scripture.

They did not write down the oracles of God?

 

[Albion]

I have never heard such arrogance..... become a Catholic or be damned.... never.

To be sure, the Catholic Church itself doesn't say that. However, some of its followers feel better about themselves if they take that view, just as would be the case if they'd grabbed onto any other supremacist theology.

 

[redleghunter]

You'll notice that the writer does NOT say "Scripture is the one-and-only source of divine inspiration or instructions from God".

Yet you used Scripture to make your point....

 

[redleghunter]

I like the RCC and OC because they teach the same gospel taught in scripture that was taught by the church throughout history in every century.

Can you explain why the OC will not allow Roman Catholics to receive communion in their churches?

 

[Albion]

I like the RCC and OC because they teach the same gospel taught in scripture that was taught by the church throughout history in every century.

Except that they do not teach the "same Gospel" as each other!

You like the claim of "same in every century," just as you find the idea of "one true church" and "never changed" to be appealing.

So would all the rest of us if it were only true.