Easiest Defense of Sola Scriptura

[Constantine the Sinner]

Which truths do you find unproven?

All four Gospels for starters.

 

[JacksBratt]

The Pope is Jesus's Prime Minister on earth. He acts on Jesus's behalf as directed by the Holy Spirit. In the Catholic Church, Scripture interpretation is done by the Magisterium and it has to be unanimous.

Can you show me where the scripture is the gives the Pope this title of "prime minister for Jesus".
Can't seem to find that.

 

[Winken]

The Bible is young, it's currently 66 books. There were more books that believers read but the church uninspired those books. There are also regular, secular history books mentioned by the Bible books that conveniently disappeared.

The holy men of the church deemed their holy writings to be Gods writings in order to derive authority and control people.

Well........... I see you are still seeking. I hope you find.

 

[redleghunter]

Sure I can. I believe the Trinity is true based on Tradition.

Was the doctrine of the Trinity a church proclamation? Divine revelation?

No. Look back at the arguments for the Trinity. The church fathers used Holy Scriptures to argue their points.

 

[Colter]

Well........... I see you are still seeking. I hope you find.

I found him, God is good. I don't have to outrage my sense of Justice in order to believe the same God is the dim view depicted in the Hebrew writings.

 

[Deadworm]

AnticipateHisComing: "This is not going to be some long winded word game. It is easy.

"1) God's Word is True, incontrovertibly true."

But this remark is unhelpful because God always lisps through human culture and preconceptions. So we are always tasked with the responsibility of sorting out the fallibility of the human mediator of God's Word from God's Word itself.

"2) Scripture is God's Word."
As a premise in a syllogistic argument, this claim can be summarily dispatched by 3 facts:
[1]The NT never claims that the 39 books that make up our OT are precisely the books that the NT church had in mind. We Protestants bought into the canon established by tha Yavnaic rabbis in the 90s AD. But in the Diaspora the Apocrypha was also included, thus accounting for the different between the Catholic and Protestant Old Testaments.

[2] But even our NT authors don't limit divine inspiration to those 39 books. Thus, Paul uses the authoritative phrase "It is written" to depict the Apocalypse of Elijah, his source for the saying in 1 Corinthians 2:9. 2 Timothy 3:8 invokes the Book of Jannes and Jambres, the names of 2 Egyptians magicians alluded to in Exodus whose names are otherwise unknown. Jude treats both the Assumption of Moses Jude 9) and 1 Enoch (Jude 14:15) as divine revelation.

[3] Nor does the NT refer to itself as God's Word. In fact, it can't refer to itself at all as a canonical collection because there is no consensus on the books of the NT canon until around 200 AD and various early Christian works were included which are now rejected from the canon.

"3) Scripture is incontrovertibly true."

The validity of this inference is decisively refuted by [1]-[3] abpve/

 

[Winken]

All four Gospels for starters.

The Bible is unproven?

 

[Colter]

Um, ya.......I am very sure that this is what He meant. Not only that but the High Priests knew that it is exactly what He meant. This totally blew their minds that He would say such a thing. Look at their reaction, they immediately wanted to stone Him. He was stating that He was God and they knew it full well:

John 8:58-59King James Version (KJV)

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.





What erratic actions did God carry out in the OT?



The more you read and study the Bible, the more you will see that the treatment of the people in the OT was that of a loving God. You would see this more if you look upon His actions as that of a Father.

Jesus did in fact claim to be divine, that doesn't mean he claimed to be the I AM.

For one the flood story has God disappointed in his creation, so he drowned the whole earth except of course an ansestor of the Hebrews who concocted that story. It didn't even work, man is still the same.

Then there's the directive to go kill men, women and children but the troops can keep the little virgin girls! That is so very obviously not God!

THere are a number of other egregious claims that people sense in their hearts are not right but the church manipulates people into believing them. They call that faith.

 

[redleghunter]

These are premises; there's nothing incontrovertible about any of them. It's a matter of opinion that Scripture is God's word, an opinion that, with His grace, I agree with. Likewise it's a matter of opinion by some that God can and has spoken through other means as well.

By your CCC it is not a matter of opinion.

134 All Sacred Scripture is but one book, and this one book is Christ, "because all divine Scripture speaks of Christ, and all divine Scripture is fulfilled in Christ" (Hugh of St. Victor, De arca Noe 2,8 176,642: cf. ibid. 2,9L 176,642-643).

135 "The Sacred Scriptures contain the Word of God and, because they are inspired, they are truly the Word of God" (DV 24).

136 God is the author of Sacred Scripture because he inspired its human authors; he acts in them and by means of them. He thus gives assurance that their writings teach without error his saving truth (cf. DV 11).

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm

 

[Winken]

I found him, God is good. I don't have to outrage my sense of Justice in order to believe the same God is the dim view depicted in the Hebrew writings.

Is He the One depicted in the Christian Covenant by the Apostle Paul?

 

[redleghunter]

All four Gospels for starters.

The Resurrection is unproven?

 

[Colter]

Is He the One depicted in the Christian Covenant by the Apostle Paul?

There is only one God, any one who seeks him will find him.

 

[JacksBratt]

The Bible is young, it's currently 66 books. There were more books that believers read but the church uninspired those books. There are also regular, secular history books mentioned by the Bible books that conveniently disappeared.

The holy men of the church deemed their holy writings to be Gods writings in order to derive authority and control people.

This would not fit with the following:

Revelation 22:18-19King James Version (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2King James Version (KJV)

2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32King James Version (KJV)

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Psalm 119:160King James Version (KJV)

160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Proverbs 30:6King James Version (KJV)

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Yes there are other ancient books and writings. Some even quoted in the canonized biblical texts. I hold them as very true accounts although they are not scripture. They are excellent historical accounts and fill in the spaces of the biblical account.

However, like the Bible, many will believe the parts they deem acceptable, doubt the parts that they cannot accept as true due to super natural occurrences and TOSS anything that doesn't fit their personal idea of what God did, said, meant or wants us to know. Basically, if it makes them nervous or contradicts their comfort zone.... then it's a myth, parable, allegory or nice story......

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

The Resurrection is unproven?

Yes, at least in the same sense Holy Tradition not completely covered by Scripture is.

 

[Winken]

There is only one God, any one who seeks him will find him.

Are you switching from your beliefs previously posted in these forums?

 

[Colter]

Jesus took on a human incarnation to be the perfect human being we failed to be. Jesus's divinity, however, is the same divinity the Father has.

We agree, but the Father and Son are two distinct persons.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

We agree, but the Father and Son are two distinct persons.

If you mean person as a translation of prosopon, yes. But with one will and one action, that comes from the Father.

 

[Colter]

Are you switching from your beliefs previously posted in these forums?

Are you trying to pick a fight? Create division out of nothing? I don't believe God wrote the Bible books. Before Moses there was no Bible, no scripture that exists. You are free to disagree with me and move on.

 

[Winken]

Are you trying to pick a fight? Create division out of nothing? I don't believe God wrote the Bible books. Before Moses there was no Bible, no scripture that exists. You are free to disagree with me and move on.

I don't pick fights........ I seek clarification. I don't recall the word you used to use where you now use "Christian Church Seeker." You even cited a certain book or writing.

 

[Colter]

If you mean person as a translation of prosopon, yes. But with one will and one action, that comes from the Father.

Jesus was subject to the will of the Father while on earth, but he wasn't the Father, he is the Son. We agree they are indistinguishably linked in divinity.

We are going off topic here kinda.