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Featured Earth's age and Adam's age

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by MasterYourLife, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. MasterYourLife

    MasterYourLife Active Member

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    An interesting idea regarding evolution/Christian debate.

    Christians generally take the side that the earth is around 6,000 years old.

    However, using a comparative interpretation of Adam's age, we can assume the earth is not 6,000 years old. But perhaps the age of time is 6,000 years.

    We can assume Adam wasn't created as a fetus or infant (no womb for him to grow). Then most likely he was created in his 20's or 30's. Regardless, the central point is he wasn't created at age 1.

    We can apply this same question to the earth. Were the rocks, trees, water, sun, etc., created at age 1? 10? 1000? 1 million?
     
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  2. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    Regardless if Adam looked 20 or 30, he was 1 when he was created.

    If you follow the chronogeneaology, there is no way you can interpret the world to be more than 7,000 years old.
     
  3. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Adam & Eve lived in the Garden of Eden 5990 years ago. Science tells us that it took God 12.9 billion years to create Adam and Eve. We are told a day in Genesis is a literal 24 hour day. Yet that day contains all time and all the ages. This is known as a paradigm or an archetype.

    For me it is the most easy to explain Genesis as one day equals 1,000 years. It is complicated to explain a day as a billion years because from that perspective each day is half the length of the day before it.

    Everything can be explained and there is no conflict between science and the Bible. Even if there are people that lack understanding.

    Carl Sagan and Neil Degrass Tyson talks about how in the beginning the universe was mostly hydrogen and helium with a little bit of lithium and beryllium. In the stars the elements were made. Even though the universe was expanding stars were still being formed. Tyson has a real nice book he just wrote on this. Also Gerald Schroeder has some interesting teaching online about the age of the universe.
     
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  4. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    7,000 years is recorded history. We still have artifacts that goes back further. For example we have sowing needles and fishing hooks made out of bone that goes back 40,000 years. We have arrow heads and spears that goes back further then that. The main thing is before the flood people lived a lot longer. Adam and Eve for example live to be almost 1,000 years old. Noah's father lived to be almost 1,000 years of age.

    Every skeleton that they have ever found before 6,000 years ago did not have any sign of ageing. They were in the prime of their life when they died from a act of violence. They were hunted down and killed like an animal. Just as Cain said: "whoever finds me will kill me."
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  5. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    Where's the evidence that such claims are true? You can't carbon date arrow heads and sowing needles, the public is gullible to believe anything that spews out their mouths. Besides that, carbon dating can be false, there are serious sources on the unreliability of how accurate it is.
     
  6. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There was a mass extinction 12,990 years ago. Saber tooth tigers and wholly mammoths died off. 90% of what was alive at that time died when the glaciers began to melt. For me each day in Genesis is equal to 1,000 years. I am a dispensationalist. I do not deny OEC, I just do not try to explain it. I leave that up to theistic evolutionists like Frances Collins and astro physic people like Gerald Schroeder. We have lots of evidence to work with. You can study the evidence and arrive at your own conclusiona
     
  7. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why would you assume so? Are you attributing constancy of time? That is to say, for the universe to appear 14 billion years old, it may actually BE 14 billion years old from the point of view of time as the universe expands. But relative to our current point of view it may only appear so, because we see what happened 14 billion years ago --i.e. we are only just now receiving light that began 14 billion years ago (its time).

    Nobody seems to realize that if we were to live a billion years more we may see light from 16 billion years ago.

    I say all this to say we don't know much. But Science says that the speed of light is relative; to which I add, The God who invented time is capable of manipulating it at his pleasure, without being dishonest.
     
  8. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are talking about the "Apparent Age Theory" of creation. Meaning that the universe appears to be much older than it actually is. Like when Adam was created he appeared to be decades old, however, he was actually only a day old. Likewise, if Adam were to chop down a tree it would probably have rings even though the tree was only days old.
     
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  9. Messerve

    Messerve Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. My pastor made the same point once. Also, Jesus created wine from water. Wine has to be fermented over time, but Jesus just made a fermented drink right then and there.

    It makes me wonder if all the fossils we find actually lived, or if God just made some of the fossils to give us things to explore since he knew there would be people who need that.
     
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  10. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I remember a documentary in which a rock was sent to seven different laboratories to determine its age. All seven labs had seven vastly different results ranging from 50,000 to 3,000,000 years! This was done to demonstrate that the entire paradigm that scientists draw their assumptions, as well as the entire foundation at which scientists based their conclusions are questionable.
     
  11. Calvary4me

    Calvary4me New Member

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    Yes, Adam was created "old". He walked, fed himself, even knew a language by which he could communicate with God. He lived in an old place. Trees already bearing fruit - and in fact, trees that needed existing topsoil in which to grow (The nutrients in soil come from dead and decayed plants and animals).

    And by all observation, the universe and the earth are extremely old. So like Adam, I can understand anybody who supports a theory that God simply created the world old. The light from distant stars were already 99.999% on their way to earth. The deeply buried oil deposits from ancient tropical forests and bogs existed immediately upon creation. But if we accept this theory, then it follows that God created the world with an "apparent" age that scientists can observe and calculate. So I use the term "apparent age" when talking various scientific disciplines which pretty consistently point to a universe that is about 14 billion years old.
     
  12. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    What are your thoughts on these verses?

    "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God...for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." - Exodus 20:8-11

    This seems to imply that the days in which we work and rest correlate to the days in which God worked and rested.

    "And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."

    This statement is repeated after each day, indicating a transition of the day cycle. What is meant by "evening" and "morning," and in that order before the next day?

    "Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name." - Genesis 2:19

    The animals were created in a moment before Adam to be named, there was no progression of a single cell over a million (or billion) years in this text.
     
  13. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    Or, God created primordial matter in Genesis 1:1 before bringing it from chaos to order, furnishing it of its emptiness, within the span of six literal days. In that case, we can't speak of the universe as being at any age, except the moment time commenced to the present day. That is not fathomable to understand though...
     
  14. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog I am a Christian mutt. You can call me Rox

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    You look too young to be so smart!
     
  15. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    This is, almost literally, the Omphalos Argument, also sometimes known as Last Thursdayism.

    It's an attempt to argue away the age of the universe (or earth) by asserting that everything was created with the appearance of age.

    The term comes from the word omphalos, meaning bellybutton in Greek. I.e. did Adam have a bellybutton even though he was not born, but created as a mature adult?

    The problem with the Omphalos Argument is that it's more than merely the appearance of age that we'd be dealing with, it's more than simply Adam having a navel; it would amount to false memory, Adam having memories of a childhood that never happened. Because the evidence of age we see in creation involves not merely things merely seeming that way, but indeed of events happening--which never did happen if the Omphalos Argument is true.

    And what that ends up saying about God is not just bad, it borders on the blasphemous by ultimately arguing that God is a deceiver.

    We see the light from stars from billions of light years away. The Omphalos Argument says those stars never existed. The Omphalos Argument results in saying that events with clear records never actually happened. Things that we have records and evidence of don't actually exist.

    And in the end it paints a terrible portrait of God, and advocates for the downright heretical. We have a creator who falsifies evidence to deceive us, and a universe which seems one way, but is in fact another way--that is itself a kind of docetism of nature.

    All of these things would be perfectly fine for Gnostics; but is very much not fine for Christians. As we confess,

    "We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen."

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  16. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Chronologically YES, but commonsensicaly NO.

    There is Geological evidence, which says differently than a chronological
    7,000 yrs.

    Hypothetical possibility.

    Adam Created 20yrs. old Adam lives in the Garden for we do not know how long because, there was no time in the Garden.
    While time outside of the Garden passes as it does today, sunrise, sunset 24 hrs. a day for millennia and the Geological transformation which we see today takes place.

    When Adam leaves the Garden everything is as we know it to be, Mountains have eroded, Continents have have drifted and collided.

    Adam left the Garden at the ripe old age of (0) when time began for him, when he actually walked into the Time Space continuum, we could assume Adam was 20 yrs.old physiologically based upon the fact he had to possess the physical ability to survive in the world he now found himself.

    This Hypothetical does not go against Christian belief, it just gives a reasonable explanation as to how it all could have worked, because anyone with half a brain knows, the world is not only 7,000 yrs old.

    According to to Scripture it does not say how long Adam was in the Garden, if we take things Chronologically as we do with the age of the world, Adam was kicked out of the Garden before the day he was Created ended, which was the 6th day, because God rested on the 7th.
     
  17. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Carbon dating is only one form of radiometric dating that is used. Carbon dating only works back to about 6000 years ago, because after about that point all of the C14 has already decayed into C12.

    Carbon dating is pretty reliable within the time-frame that it is used. Because it's very easy to measure radioactive decay, we know how decay works, it can be objectively measured, and so measuring the rate of decay in things results in largely reliable results.

    But, again, carbon dating is only one form of radiometric dating. potassium-argon dating and uranium-lead dating are two other kinds of radiometric dating used, and works for much older things.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  18. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    I don't think it matters how long Adam was in the Garden of Eden, the records say that he lived to be 930. If he was created on the sixth day, then the world was 930 years when he died...
     
  19. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    The church today is beginning to compromise the historical account of Genesis with secular science, as the early church compromised Christian principles with secular philosophy. Those who object are treated the same by those in the secular community, does anyone see the correlation?
     
  20. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Just sheer logic then isn't it?

    I know you read my post, but you certainly did not understand it.

    That's ok, few with your view do.

    How old are the Dinosaurs, when in the 6 days of Creation did they come about?

    Did Adam have to chase them out of his corn field?
    Did they drown in the Flood?
    Did they die off before the Flood, because they sure didn't come to Noah 2x2.
    Geologically The Appalachian Mountains are older than the Alps, they were higher than the Alps also, but they are not today why is that?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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