Drop your theological errors off here...

[HatGuy]

The word "saved" is always tricky in these sorts of conversations, as it carries so many different meanings depending on your background. Even the Bible doesn't treat the word as technically as we do.

It's helpful to be clear. I suspect the Eastern Orthodox here see the word referring more to becoming whole than to just going to heaven. In that case, a Protestant like me agrees works are necessary. We need works to become whole, to live without sin.

But if we're talking about works to make one right with God and be an adopted Son or daughter, then faith is all that's necessary.

Of course, faith always includes repentance. It is pretty much the same thing.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Of course I sin. Everybody sins, since nobody is perfect. God doesn't expect me to be perfect and my sins are forgiven in advance. Why are you so focused on sin? It seems that you are perpetually focused on your sin and not on God.

Only sins you unknowingly commit are forgiven "in advance." No willful sin is forgiven; you must repent in order for the blood to be applied.

 

[amariselle]

No, I'm not talking about our bodies. I'll give you some help.

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Jesus was pointing out to this "rich man" that he had not in fact perfectly kept the Law, nor was He able to do so. Throughout His earthly ministry, Jesus made it absolutely clear that God's standard is perfection, not simply outsward obedience. (Which is why, for example, He called the religious leaders "whitewashed tombs.")

No one has ever been saved by keeping the Law, because no one has ever kept it. Only Christ. (Remember, if you offend in one point, you offend in all).

For by the deeds of the Law shall no flesh be justified in His sight. (Romans 3:20) (Galatians 2:16)

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Does Jesus use the works He speaks of as criteria to determine who the "sheep" are, or does He separate them and then commend the "sheep" for their works?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Jesus was pointing out to this "rich man" that he had not in fact perfectly kept the Law, nor was He able to do so. Throughout His earthly ministry, Jesus made it absolutely clear that God's standard is perfection, not simply outsward obedience. (Which is why, for example, He called the religious leaders "whitewashed tombs.")

No one has ever been saved by keeping the Law, because no one has ever kept it. Only Christ. (Remember, if you offend in one point, you offend in all).

For by the deeds of the Law shall no flesh be justified in His sight. (Romans 3:20) (Galatians 2:16)



Does Jesus use the works He speaks of as criteria to determine who the "sheep" are, or does He separate them and then commend the "sheep" for their works?

Do you know why we are no longer under the law? What happened to our sinful nature?

 

[amariselle]

Do you know why we are no longer under the law?

Absolutely.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Absolutely.

If you were teaching me, then what would you say. We are having a conversation here.

 

[amariselle]

If you were teaching me, then what would you say. We are having a conversation here.

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Romans 10:1-13

 

[1stcenturylady]

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Romans 10:1-13

Right. How do we keep from sinning now?

 

[amariselle]

Right. How do we keep from sinning now?

In the flesh? We don't. Go read Paul's epistles.

 

[1stcenturylady]

In the flesh? We don't. Go read Paul's epistles.

So you believe you are in the flesh?

Romans 8:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV) One of Paul's epistles

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[pescador]

Only sins you unknowingly commit are forgiven "in advance." No willful sin is forgiven; you must repent in order for the blood to be applied.

That is unbiblical. The blood of Jesus covers all sin. "By his will we have been made holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every [Old Covenant] priest stands day after day serving and offering the same sacrifices again and again—sacrifices that can never take away sins. But when this priest [Jesus] had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right hand of God, where he is now waiting until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are made holy.

 

[amariselle]

So you believe you are in the flesh?

Romans 8:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV) One of Paul's epistles

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Last time I checked I hadn't physically died yet.

Inwardly, however, yes, I walk by the Spirit.

God bless.

 

[1stcenturylady]

That is unbiblical. The blood of Jesus covers all sin. "By his will we have been made holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every [Old Covenant] priest stands day after day serving and offering the same sacrifices again and again—sacrifices that can never take away sins. But when this priest [Jesus] had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right hand of God, where he is now waiting until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are made holy.

So do you just carry on sinning, or do you not sin anymore?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Last time I checked I hadn't physically died yet.

Inwardly, however, yes, I walk by the Spirit.

God bless.

Yes, the flesh we are referring to is the carnal nature, not the body of flesh.

 

[amariselle]

Yes, the flesh we are referring to is the carnal nature, not the body of flesh.

Perhaps we are actually just talking past each other then.

God bless.

 

[pescador]

So do you just carry on sinning, or do you not sin anymore?

I sin, but never intentionally. I certainly don't "carry on sinning". If I did I would be led by the flesh. However, I am dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Sin is no longer my master, Christ is. There is a huge difference between sinning unintentionally and sinning intentionally.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Perhaps we are actually just talking past each other then.

God bless.

I sent you my testimony. That is when I felt the Holy Spirit enter and killed sin in the flesh. The heaviness of sin was gone. I even looked at my feet to see if they were still on the ground because I felt light as a feather. That power of the Spirit has never left.

 

[amariselle]

I sent you my testimony. That is when I felt the Holy Spirit enter and killed sin in the flesh. The heaviness of sin was gone. I even looked at my feet to see if they were still on the ground because I felt light as a feather. That power of the Spirit has never left.

Yes, I just finished reading it, thank you. I am truly glad you are saved, all the glory to the Triune God.

God bless.

 

[pescador]

I sent you my testimony. That is when I felt the Holy Spirit enter and killed sin in the flesh. The heaviness of sin was gone. I even looked at my feet to see if they were still on the ground because I felt light as a feather. That power of the Spirit has never left.

It is interesting that you say that. It's exactly the way I felt at my wedding when my bride appeared. I felt that I had no feeling from my knees down, as if I was suspended in space. How's that for going off topic?

 

[1stcenturylady]

I sin, but never intentionally. I certainly don't "carry on sinning". If I did I would be led by the flesh. However, I am dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Sin is no longer my master, Christ is. There is a huge difference between sinning unintentionally and sinning intentionally.

My question is why people are taught that all their past, present and future WILLFUL sins are under the blood. How many teach the power of the Spirit? They just teach a misleading teaching that we are under a different grace than we are actually under. One where God winks at sin. Wrong! Grace is the power of God not to sin - we are dead to sin. (I felt when that happened to me in 1977)