Drop your
belief that the Holy Spirit leads us individually in interpreting scripture,
That is correct. Wise men do worship Christ our God, and they have the spiritual good sense to appropriately venerate His mother. The Orthodox strive to pray to Jesus continuously, without ever ceasing, while still asking for others to pray for them (especially the mother of God}. Today our pop culture would call this "multitasking". "Spiritual maturity", however, is probably a more fitting label for this Orthodox Christian practice.Let me get this straight OP...you're telling me to ease up on the Jesus praying, and reserve some prayers for Mary?? Based on which scriptures?
I seem to recall the wise men worshiping Jesus and not Mary.
"Never the less when the Son of man comes will He find faith on the earth."We don't claim salvation until we get there. Forgive me...
I think that the whole thrust of Scripture is that one must continue in this faith, "persevering to the end" in it, and until that end arrives, who knows if they are among the saved?8 The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. - Romans 10
He will find Faith when He returns, and mostly in the hearts of pious Orthodox worshipers. If you'd ever met an Orthodox Christian of True Belief, you would have become aware of this. How many of us must endure torture and being killed for our Love of Christ and His Gospel before the ignorant will open the eyes of their hearts and close their slanderous mouths?"Never the less when the Son of man comes will He find faith on the earth."
In the case of the Orthodox church - apparently not.
I will not be coming to an Orthodox Church to worship.. Ever..
The faithful ask Mary to pray to God for them, they ask many faithful believers in Christ to pray for them. Does God judge and condemn those who ask others to pray for them? No, of course not. You state that you don't agree with certain things because you are using "reason". All we ever ask is that "reason", and not unconscious, errant feelings about how our Father in heaven looks upon us, is used in determining what the One, True God is bothered by and what He is not bothered by. He is bothered by sin, especially the sin of pride, and not by the humble asking of prayers from the mother of Christ our God.I believe some of what the Catholics believe is wrong. I am not a Catholic for that reason! Some are listed on your list. Praying to Mary is one of them.
I think that the whole thrust of Scripture is that one must continue in this faith, "persevering to the end" in it, and until that end arrives, who knows if they are among the saved?
He will find Faith when He returns, and mostly in the hearts of pious Orthodox worshipers. If you'd ever met an Orthodox Christian of True Belief, you would have become aware of this. How many of us must endure torture and being killed for our Love of Christ and His Gospel before the ignorant will open the eyes of their hearts and close their slanderous mouths?
I'm sorry if what I said was offensive to anyone.We dont claim salvation until we get there.
I find this, if true, to be mournfully sad, because what the Faithful will be doing for all of Eternity in the Kingdom of God is going to be what is done during Liturgy in Orthodox Churches.
The faithful ask Mary to pray to God for them, they ask many faithful believers in Christ to pray for them. Does God judge and condemn those who ask others to pray for them? No, of course not. You state that you don't agree with certain things because you are using "reason". All we ever ask is that "reason", and not unconscious, errant feelings about how our Father in heaven looks upon us, is used in determining what the One, True God is bothered by and what He is not bothered by. He is bothered by sin, especially the sin of pride, and not by the humble asking of prayers from the mother of Christ our God.
I'm not Roman Catholic, just in case I seem to be arguing as one.
But Mary is dead, unless you think Mary is omniscient and omnipresent like God and can hear everyone's prayers to her all at the same time in the tomb.The faithful ask Mary to pray to God for them, they ask many faithful believers in Christ to pray for them. Does God judge and condemn those who ask others to pray for them? No, of course not.
Took the words out of my mouth...I mean away from my keyboard lolBut Mary is dead, unless you think Mary is omniscient and omnipresent like God and can hear everyone's prayers to her all at the same time in the tomb.
The faithful ask Mary to pray to God for them, they ask many faithful believers in Christ to pray for them. Does God judge and condemn those who ask others to pray for them? No, of course not. You state that you don't agree with certain things because you are using "reason". All we ever ask is that "reason", and not unconscious, errant feelings about how our Father in heaven looks upon us, is used in determining what the One, True God is bothered by and what He is not bothered by. He is bothered by sin, especially the sin of pride, and not by the humble asking of prayers from the mother of Christ our God.
I'm not Roman Catholic, just in case I seem to be arguing as one.
I guess Irenaeus, Ignatius, Polycarp and a few other early church fathers were in error.belief in a 1000 year reign on earth,
No forgive me above...what gives.Drop your
Primacy,
filioque clause (and the Son),
Purgatory,
Indulgences,
beleif in hell as a physical place,
Dispensationalism,
disbelief in the Trinity,
belief in a pretribulation Rapture,
belief that we can't fall from grace,
Prosperity Gospel,
belief in a 1000 year reign on earth,
hellfire and damnation preaching,
belief that Icons are Idols,
praying to Mary is wrong,
depravity of man,
just the bible and me,
infallability of scriptures,
infalable personal translation of scriptures,
belief that the Holy Spirit leads us individually in interpreting scripture,
Predestination,
belief that works do not assist our salvation,
disbelief in prayers for the dead,
disbelief in prayers to Saints,
disbelief in infant baptism,
Refusal to recognize any form of liturgical worship,
attempts to predict the end of time from scripture,
salvition moment "I'm saved",
Mosaic laws,
following Judaism,
beliefs that the nation state of Israel is spiritual Israel,
belief that Jesus died to pay off God's anger,
and come sing in the liturgy at an Orthodox Christian Church and partake of Holy Communion.
About 1000 years reign on earth being Metaphor for neverending? We don't believe in infallability at any level.I guess Irenaeus, Ignatius, Polycarp and a few other early church fathers were in error.
You mean theological opinions on your part.
It does not help a sensible debate to write such a deliberately polarizing post!.
Take primacy: The reality is the orthodox church itself cannot even agree on the primacy! On first among equals, or conveying authority, both flavours held by different parts of it. Or indeed what constitutes a valid council. Take the lack of agreement on validity of a pan orthodox council without such as antioch, bulgaria or georgian present, led to russian failing to attend, so losing all credibility as a "pan orthodox" and hitting at the heart of the "authority" issue, orthodox could not agree with each other to talks about decisions! Get your own house in order on doctrine, before throwing bricks at others!
It is sad that at one time orthodox did indeed recognise the primacy of honour, that the pope spoke with the authority of Peter clearly supported by writings of such as Augustine,till orthodox went their own way some time later. The primacy of Rome was clearly accepted at the time of the great written works of Christianity, the creed and canon, we now call the new testament. That alone should give orthodox pause for thought
Asking the living to pray is okay but asking the dead is not okay. It is clear that communicating with the dead is wrong from the scriptures.
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