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i grew up being spoon fed this garbage, and that is exactly what it is.This article by an Assemblies of God minister seems to say that our current day understanding of wine is not the same as it was in Biblical times.
If wine in the Bible was alcoholic, as our wine today is, then I guess I agree with you.
However, it is wise to remember that alcohol is a habit-forming substance.
We wouldn't want to be lured into alcoholism.
It is wise to be careful.
The reason that the corinthians didn`t eat meat was due to the fact that the OT told them not to, because it had been sacrificed to idols. It was unclean for them to eat that meat. Paul was concerned not because it might lead weaker believers into idolatry, but because they still believed that it was wrong for them to eat meat sacrificed to idols as it was in the OT, and because of that belief if they ate meat because they saw somone who was a mature believer doing it....and had not reconciled it wihin their own conciense.....then they would have violated their conscience, and so sinned.
I am not talking about the nonsensicle arguments! And finally if you were doing something which was causing a weaker believer to stumble, would you continue to do it?
"Woe to him by whom the stumbling block comes"
Mark
i will not be able to reply till monday so my appologies at the wait you will have if you reply
The rebutal to that is, your offense offends me...It is not a sin to drink alcohol, but if you get drunk it is sinful, if you drink in excess, and you know full well when that is, then it becomes sinful, if you drink alcohol and it offends another, then that also is sinful.
In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^
The rebutal to that is, your offense offends me...
It's a circle...
You can choose not to be offended by what another does that God does not consider sin.
And again,Rom:14:20: For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21: It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
1Cor:10:23: All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
Even though all things are lawful for me, it is not expedient that i do all things which might offend others, even though they are not sin unto me.
i can eat meat and it is no sin for me to do so, but if i eat meat around a brother or sister that is a vegetarian, and they are offended by me eating meat, then it becomes sin for me to continue to do so, knowing that it is upsetting another.
In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^
And again,
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
And again,
The offense offends me...and we go in circles.
What a self-centered point of view:And again,
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
And again,
The offense offends me...and we go in circles.
My 2 cents..I never drank, have no interest in drinking..I was saddened when two of my 3 children got interested in alcohol then go the third one involved in the party scene..These are kids who loved the Lord in their younger years...Honestly , I have been around divorce .death and family heartache from alcohol and have not seen any positive benefits from alcohol consumption..You can pray along with me for my kids to return to their first love..pax..Kim
Our Lord both made and drank wine. If He did it, it ain't a sin. Case closed.The bible is not very clear about if it is a sin or not to drink beer or wine.
The bible is not very clear about if it is a sin or not to drink beer or wine. There are several verses to support both sides of the fence- some believe it's a sin to have fermented wine, other's believe it's ok so long as you arnt drunk.
I want to know for sure because i gave up drinking totally (not even nyquil) when i really started to live for god. i feel like this is a sign to myself that makes me different than before because i drank alot. but then after a few years i felt like i was doing it in vein since the lord loved me anyways and i was saved because he said so, not because i earned it.
I want to know specifically what the bible says about moderate drinking. not getting drunk, but one or two beers here or there.
the fact remains that scripture is there, and there for a purpose.Those who are decrying the "weaker brother" arguments ... how many of you have been to an 'all-you-can-eat' restaurant or a church pot-luck either with or around fat people? Glutony is sin. How many of you have done business with someone consumed by greed? Greed is a sin. How many of you have driven a nice new car, or shown off a nice new house to someone consumed by chasing possesions?
On and on we could go.
I am sorry for your heartache, and I will pray for your kids.
I would like to just point out though that I have known Christians who left their first love and got consumed with their careers and climbing the corporate ladder. I've known others who left their first love and got a divorce and started chassing affairs and various women. I've known people who have left their first love for a variety of things.
Yes, alchohol can be abused, but so can food, careers, money, possesions, and anything else that we allow to come between us and God. Alchohol is no sin when used responsibly, the main problem is we don't train or model for our kids to use it responsibly.
Those who are decrying the "weaker brother" arguments ... how many of you have been to an 'all-you-can-eat' restaurant or a church pot-luck either with or around fat people? Glutony is sin. How many of you have done business with someone consumed by greed? Greed is a sin. How many of you have driven a nice new car, or shown off a nice new house to someone consumed by chasing possesions?
On and on we could go.
the fact remains that scripture is there, and there for a purpose.
God did not give us our freedom in order that we could flaunt it in others faces.
nowhere are we told to declare our freedom over the needs of our brothers and sisters in the Lord.
you can add many things to that list list that others find sinfulI am not denying that but you have not yet answered the question. Have you ever been to an all-you-can-eat restaurant or a church pot-luck where there were any fat people?
I am not saying that the standard you set doesn't exist, I am asking are you consistent in applying it in the manner that you expect in relation to alchohol?
What a self-centered point of view:
notice, our freedom is NOT FOR US but that we might LIVE AS SERVANTS!
1 Peter 2:16
Live as free men... live as servants of God
Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. ... serve one another in love.
1 Corinthians 10:24
Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
Philippians 2:4
Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Philippians 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
the fact remains that scripture is there, and there for a purpose.
God did not give us our freedom in order that we could flaunt it in others faces.
nowhere are we told to declare our freedom over the needs of our brothers and sisters in the Lord.
you can mant things to that list list that others find sinful
women wearing pants, jewelry, or braiding their hair
people whose jobs require them to work on Sunday, or even some that require Sabbath to be obseverved on Saturday
To apply to one and not all kinda invalidates the arguement
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