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FallingWaters

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Alcohol-free wine 'just as healthy'

"
Removing the alcohol content of red wine does not reduce its health-giving properties, suggest experts.

In fact, the alcohol may actually shorten the benefits.
"


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is Wine Healthy or Do Wine Drinkers Have a Healthier Lifestyle that Has Nothing To Do With the Wine?
[/FONT]By June Russell

"
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Alcohol is toxic to the liver, aggravates allergies, worsens fatigue, can negate a diet rich in fruits and vegetables and the presence of alcohol hastens the breakdown of antioxidants in the blood, speeding their elimination from the body. The medical literature advises the public to avoid alcohol for almost every health problem - and as a way to prevent health problems.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The alcohol's presence in wine increases free radicals, which cause damage to blood vessels tissues - dampening any of the benefits that red wine's antioxidants may offer, says Dr. John Foltz, researcher at the University of Wisconsin. Purple grape juice can give the benefits without the intoxicating effects, as grape juice contains more resveratrol, a supposed cholesterol lowering substance, than most red wine. Grape juice improves the function of the cells in blood vessel linings more efficiently than wine.[/FONT]"
[emphasis mine]



And to think I almost listened to you people!
 
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AJB4

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After reading this article, I became convinced that drinking is not a sin.

The wine at the wedding that Jesus turned water into must have been alcoholic, because the point of having 'good wine' first is because by the end of the wedding or event, people would be more relaxed and not care about the taste so much, so they'd bring out the worse stuff. It can't have been grape juice, because unfermented grape juice tastes the same.

Also, back then in the blazing hot weather, how would they keep the wine unfermented, if indeed is was grape juice. A lot of people estimate about 40 days of unfermentation. So, they harvest their grapes, then after 40 days, they're fermented. What would they have done then? Grape season over. All that's left is fermented wine.

The thing about how you're drunk after one sip of an alcoholic drink comes from somewhere other than Jesus IMO.
 
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BigNorsk

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Even under Old Testament Law, people were told they could drink.
Deu 14:26 NET.
(26)
Then you may spend the money however you wish for cattle, sheep, wine, beer, or whatever you desire. You and your household may eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and enjoy it.
God did not disapprove of alcohol. Wine, and beer and even distilled drinks, which did not exist then, are blessings from God. Throughout the Bible, grapes and wine is repeatedly shown to be a blessing.

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BereanTodd

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Oh, stop confusing the legalistic fundies with crazy things like facts and Scriptures now Norsk ...
 
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MarkEvan

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Each person is convicted by their own conscience that it is either right or wrong to drink alcohol, those who think that it is a sin to drink alcohol, then yes to you it would be because you would violate your conscience.
Those people who deem that it is ok, then to you (as the principle for eaing meat shown in Romans and 1 corinthians shows) it is not sin.
However should we who think that it is ok, cause someone who has a weak conscience, to violate that conscience, then we are guilty of sin, having destroyed that person.
And those who are of the opinion that it is sin, it is not your place to accuse others of sinning, when the scriptures are clear on this subject.


And to the OP, study the word and allow the Spirit to guide your conscience in this matter.

mark
 
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BigNorsk

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We do need however to realize that simply drinking, consuming the blessing from God, does not cause a weaker person to stumble.

If we wanted to think that way, we certainly would not use money for many fall into sin over money.

We would also all be celibate for we wouldn't want our weaker brother to fall into sin thinking that God wanted us to enjoy sex.

And so on.

In all those cases, there is a right way to use and enjoy them, and a wrong way. We should thank God for his blessings and provide an example of the proper way to use them to strengthen our weaker brothers.

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MarkEvan

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Our drinking in front of someone who`s conscience convicts them over alcohol can lead them to sin and therefore we sin because we do not "love our neighbour as ourselves."

If we take what Paul says in romans 14 about eating meat and also what he says in 1 corinthians, this principle can be directly related to drinking, if you drank wine before someone who did not think that it was ok, for instance someone who was an alcoholic, and they seeing you a mature believer in the LORD drinking, and drinking themselves reguardless of the convictions of their conscience, then they sin, and Paul makes it clear that you sin...infact that your sin is worse because you have caused them to violate their conscience, and therefore according to Paul, "destroyed" that person.

Mark
 
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FallingWaters

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Yes.
You have applied the principle rightly, in my view.

A Christian sister once asked me if it would bother me if she drank beer in front of me, while I was visiting her in her home.
I was a baby Christian out of a Catholic background.
I grew up having an alcoholic father, and believing that alcohol single-handedly ruined our happy home- and my life- forever.
I hated alcohol because of what it had done to our lives.

Since she asked me, I told her it would bother me, so she didn't drink in front of me.
I appreciated that.
I don't know what I would have thought if she had not have asked,
but knowing how I am,
it is likely that I would never have trusted her again.
 
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Tamara224

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So, maybe what we should do is take every opportunity to strengthen our weaker brothers and sisters so that someday we can sit down together and enjoy a glass of wine, beer or liquor without causing him/her to stumble.

The truth sets us free... free from the bondage of legalism. If we encourage and teach our weaker brothers and sisters concerning the truth about alcohol, then they will no longer stumble but be able to exercise freedom as well as the stronger brothers and sisters do.

Or, should we just leave them in their state of weakness?
 
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freespiritchurch

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There's a difference between an alcoholic and someone who believes that drinking is wrong. An alcoholic could be led into sin by drinking, so we're obliged to avoid drinking around one. A person who doesn't drink and isn't tempted to wouldn't be led to sin by watching someone drink, and so we don't have the same obligation to avoid drinking around them.
 
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MarkEvan

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But this would make no sense in the principle of eating meat, those who thought it wrong did so not because they sufferewd from temptation, but because they thought they saw from scripture that it was wrong, and although Paul seeks to educate them in the issue, he also says that if it causes someone to stumble then he will never eat meat again.

James says "he then that knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, to him it is sin," in this context and from what they believe the scriptures teach, if those who consider drinking wine wrong, to them it would be!

Yes I agree that those who know it not to be sin, should teach those who think it isn`t, however we should never let our liberty cause someon eto stumble.

Mark
 
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BigNorsk

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Well then have you ever done business with a greedy person, ever used money in front of someone who was greedy or a gambling addict or had any sort of sinful problem with money?

Do you eat in front of a glutton, or maybe even have a church pot-luck dinner where the food is piled high and the glutton is told to go ahead and dish up?

Just wondering if you apply this to your life or only to alcohol?

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MarkEvan

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Let me ask a question, Is the principle given from scripture wrong?

Mark
 
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Zecryphon

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Drinking is not a sin. How could it be? Jesus not only turned water into wine, but also drank wine Himself. If the statement that 'Jesus is without sin' is true, then His actions, all of His actions must not be considered sin, and that includes drinking. The sin is getting drunk.
 
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FallingWaters

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Yes, but apparently there is some controversy about just how much alcoholic content there really was.
 
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freespiritchurch

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As I read 1 Corinthians 8-10, the problem is that some people worshiped idols by eating meat sacrificed to them. Paul acknowledges that the Corinthians he addressed knew better, but he was concerned that some Christians would be led into real idolatry when they saw their brethren doing something that only had the appearance of idolatry.

If we follow your logic, we would all be bound to avoid any action that offended any Christian, even if their objections were nonsensical. There's no way to live according to that principle, which suggests to me that it isn't what Paul is trying to say.

Alan
 
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FallingWaters

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This article by an Assemblies of God minister seems to say that our current day understanding of wine is not the same as it was in Biblical times.


If wine in the Bible was alcoholic, as our wine today is, then I guess I agree with you.
However, it is wise to remember that alcohol is a habit-forming substance.
We wouldn't want to be lured into alcoholism.
It is wise to be careful.
 
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Melethiel

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Yes, but apparently there is some controversy about just how much alcoholic content there really was.
Enough for people to get drunk. Enough for the Pharisees to accuse Jesus of being a drunkard. Not to mention that preventing grape juice from fermenting before the invention of pasteurization was nigh on impossible.
 
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E

erdnuss

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This is my belief on drinking...
I think getting drunk or even drinking often is as easy as black and white. It is wrong. It's harmful for your body, it's harmful to others (like if you went out to drive while drunk) and acohol can easy become addicting which then makes it's more important than God in ones life, it becomes like an idol in your life.
Drinking as in having one beer or a glass of wine, maybe on margarita on occassion...that's in the grey. This is when your covictions come in. I have a very close friend of mine who has a past with acohol. He use to be addicted. He believes it's wrong for him to even be around it because he knows what it did to him in the past and he knows he can easly go back to his past ways if he takes even just one sip. He has the selfcontrol to not go and buy any, but if someone handed him a beer and he took one sip, he knows it'd just take him back to his past.
I have another friend who's never had acohol but still feels God wants her to stay away from it.
I personally don't feel any convictions against having a glass of wine or one margarita on occassion. I rarely drink, but the times I do, it's one glass and no more.
If you limit yourself to one glass and you don't scarf it all down in a few minutes but take your time drinking it, then it won't do any damage to the body and some wines can even have a cleansing effect in the body if only drinking a very small amount.
So getting drunk or drinking a lot? wrong
Having 1 drink from time to time? As God and go with your convictions. If you feel it's wrong, then don't drink because God has his reasons why he doesn't want you to drink, but if you don't have any convictions against having an occassional drink? then it's probably ok.
Also, don't drink infront of someone if you know they believe it's wrong. Paul even talks about not eating meet infront of someon who's religion is against eating certain meats...if you are spending time with someone and you know they have convictions against drinking, even if you belive God says it's ok for you to drink on occassion, choose not to drink infront of them so you don't tempt them to go against their convictions. Obviously if we are out in a croud, we can't go around and ask everyone ot make sure everyone's ok with you having 1 beer, so this only applies when you know you are with someone who has convictions against it. And this applies to many things in life because we need to look out for our fellow brothers and sisters
 
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FallingWaters

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For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak,
to eat food offered to idols? 1Cor 8:10 ESV


The words I underlined might have some importance in understanding this verse; John Gill points it out.

In applying this to myself, I would think that if someone looked up to me as their Sunday school teacher,
or as a mature Christian, and they were new in the Lord,
they might get a wrong impression from seeing me drinking or doing whatever else might not be fully in our best interest to do.
I think this is saying, if I am "known" as one who has knowledge of godly things,
I am to be more careful of my example.
And James gives such a warning:
Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
James 3:1 ESV
 
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