Dr. Dino

[Bushido216]

Buck72, this forum includes Theistic Evolution.

The only difference between this forum and its counterpart is so that YEC's can scream the usual lies at each other and the rest of us can't do much about it.

Buck72, I beg you to look at the reams of evidence being showed to you. You've been refuted over and over again and you just say the same things over and over again.

And P.S., the geological column has been observed.

And Kent Hovind is a liar. He may be a Christian, but he still lies. Defending him with the usual (false) rhetoric doesn't help him much. The sooner you accept this, the better for all involved.

 

[Routerider]

Wow troodon - you claim to love God and yet you openly despise His word, even disregarding the flood that left its scars on every mountain pass, valley and ocean flloor?

I'd love to see some evidence to backup this claim that a global flood "scarred" every mountain pass, valley and ocean floor! Unless I'm mistaken nobody has ever found a global flood stratum!

 

[Bushido216]

That's a good point. People point out strata that is similar to that caused by a river or some such, and say that it was caused by rain travelling downward not horizontally like a river.

 

[Buck72]

Let's move this to another thread.

Iamthathero asked what we think of Kent Hovind - I said I thought he was pretty good. Now we have shifted gears to the point where our discussions have got down to the root of theo-evo vs. YEC.

I will take all of troodon's evidence and start a new thread. Just look up 'ol Buck72 in a few days. It will be titled "YEC answers Theo-Evo".

I do not know how I got into this big of a confrontaion/debate, but I will ride it out to its conclusion - I promise.

Check out my latest thread: "Literal SIX DAY Creation" to carry this dead horse to another section.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to defend my faith! I hope to get better at this with time.

Pro 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

"I believe in the Bible from cover to cover. Everything else I question." -Buck72

 

[Vance]

Just remember that you are not "defending" the Christian Faith, but the YEC faith. We are all Christians here, so you need not defend Christianity itself.

 

[TransformedByGrace]

than go out of our way to go to some packed church to listen to him preach and, most likely, never get the opportunity to talk to him to set him right on anything.

My church wasn't packed out, and I spent plenty of time talking to Eric (Kent's son), i went with him to the store and spent most of the night talking to him. I dunno, Kent isn't that busy either, he runs his own mini amusement park, and spends alot of his time in a van traveling, with a cellphone. He had the time to teach me how to build a potato gun. I'm sure he can talk with anybody willing.

 

[TransformedByGrace]

[qutoe]until it began to replace any refernece to creation in the textbooks, science journals, and universities.[ROFL, creation was never in textbooks or science journals; it was falsified long before Nature or Science came around.

thats funny you think you were there... hmm, or any form of reference material was before science or nature... right...

 

[ThePhoenix]

My church wasn't packed out, and I spent plenty of time talking to Eric (Kent's son), i went with him to the store and spent most of the night talking to him. I dunno, Kent isn't that busy either, he runs his own mini amusement park, and spends alot of his time in a van traveling, with a cellphone. He had the time to teach me how to build a potato gun. I'm sure he can talk with anybody willing.

Please ask him? Lucapsa would LOVE to debate Hovind, and I would simply love to sit back, watch, and laugh.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

thats funny you think you were there... hmm, or any form of reference material was before science or nature... right...

As you are no doubt aware, Science and Nature are journals.

 

[creationist-Heritage]

Okay where should I start. For one, Evolution is a religion and if you believe it you are not a christian. I am not saying your lost, your just not a Christian. Christian means Christ-like and Christ certainly did not believe in evolution because he made the universe,he should know. The creation account in Genesis does not support evolution or any kind of gap in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. If you believe evolution then you are willingly ignorant,a scoffer, as the Bible says. Which means dumb on purpose. If you do not believe every word of the Bible you are a Scoffer. If you disagree then call Mr. Hovind and talk to him. His number is on his web site. He may not be 100% accurate but he is the first to tell you his theories may be wrong. And one more thing he is not a con-artist, if he was then he would put a copy right on his merchandise. He tells you you can copy anything you want, including his videos, and send them back to get your money back. Well I hope this helped. Okay bye

 

[Chi_Cygni]

First point:

Hovind is a con. He is certainly no scientist. His lack of basic science knowledge is amazing, and that people don't see through this is equally shocking.

Buck72 - I'm sorry but it seems your science knowledge is lacking.

Ever heard of multipole components to a field? The Earth's dipole field is decreasing currently, but it was also at lower levels in the past, then it increased and is now decreasing again.

The problem is the Earth's field is not a simple dipole, as shown in most layman's books. As one component of the field decreases another can be increasing. The Earth's field is a complex poloidal and toroidal geometry. Thus it has associated quadrupole and higher order multipoles. You cannot just cite the change in the dipole component and argue the whole field is decaying. This whole argument was put to rest years ago, except by dyed in the wool fools like Hovind.

Check your lunar orbit sources more carefully too. There are several journal papers on the change in the lunar recession as a function of the Earth's continent position with time and how it effects the tidal drag of the Earth and Moon. Even plugging in the current recession rate doesn't lead to an impossibly close Moon in the past.

 

[Vance]

Okay where should I start. For one, Evolution is a religion and if you believe it you are not a christian.

This is what I am talking about, folks. Just in case anyone had any doubts that YEC's actually say this, here it is in black and white. It is exactly this statement which has, I am convinced, cost Christianity more souls than a teaching of evolution EVER has.

 

[Vance]

First point:

Hovind is a con. He is certainly no scientist. His lack of basic science knowledge is amazing, and that people don't see through this is equally shocking.

He tells 'em what they wanna hear.

$800,000.00 last year worth of "tellin' em what they wanna hear". Not a bad racket, really, especially if you believe your own mistatements.

For which he proudly pays no taxes, IIRC, although the evil IRS (obviously in league with the "evil-utionists") is going after him.

Did you know he asserts that the Oklahoma City bombing was actually secretly done by the government to further its agenda against the militia groups? (or some-such secret agenda he rambles on about).

 

[Chi_Cygni]

I also heard he invented a cure for cancer, something to do with vitamin B12 I think.

 

[Chi_Cygni]

I am new here but on reading the whole of this thread, I am shocked at the lack of basic science understanding I see. It's not surprising after all that buffoons like Hovind can sell their wares.

 

[Vance]

And this is what our youth are being fed.

Did you see Creationist-Heritage (who is in 8th grade) say that if you believe in evolution, you can't be a Christian? Probably the most dangerous doctrine any Christian group EVER came up with. While YEC's are still a minority sect, they are a very vocal minority and are more likely to write books, seminars and get on the airwaves (all of which make them money) than any other Christian group.

He is walking, breathing proof of what I have been saying here for a while: YEC's are undermining the ultimate message of Christianity by equating their own interpretation of Scripture with Christianity itself driving non-Christians away and creating youth who will leave the Church in droves once they learn anything.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Okay where should I start. For one, Evolution is a religion and if you believe it you are not a christian.

You will take that back or explain to the moderators why the Rule 1 of these forums does not apply to you.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Okay where should I start. For one, Evolution is a religion

Evolution is about science. No plausible definition of religion can possible include it.

and if you believe it you are not a christian. I am not saying your lost, your just not a Christian.

A Christian is someone who is attempting to follow Christ. It is not defined by position on scientific models.

Christian means Christ-like and Christ certainly did not believe in evolution because he made the universe,he should know.

You don't know what Our Lord did or didn't know scientifically about the origin of the universe, as a man, voluntarily subjecting Himself to the limitations of Humanity.

The creation account in Genesis does not support evolution or any kind of gap in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

It does. Right between the verses on quantum mechanics and that chapter about wave-particle duality.

If you believe evolution then you are willingly ignorant,a scoffer, as the Bible says. Which means dumb on purpose.

This is where you cross from ill-informed to downright offensive. I accept evolution because of what I know, not because of what I don't know. You are, it seems, trying to accuse me of purposely rejecting what I know to be true to accept evolution. Nothing could be further from the truth. Accepting creationism would be without question "believing what I know isn't true". Integral suicide.

If you do not believe every word of the Bible you are a Scoffer.

And you pluck that from where exactly? What does it mean to believe "every word". Do you believe both these sentences:

God brought trouble on Israel by making David take a census (Samuel)
Satan brought trouble on Israel by making David take a census (Chronicles)?

If you disagree then call Mr. Hovind and talk to him. His number is on his web site. He may not be 100% accurate

First true thing you've said so far.

but he is the first to tell you his theories may be wrong.

But you want to base your alternative scientific model on them?

And one more thing he is not a con-artist, if he was then he would put a copy right on his merchandise. He tells you you can copy anything you want, including his videos, and send them back to get your money back.

I see. The sign of a con-artist is he copyrights his stuff. Interesting. I'm sure the fraud squad will be pleased to know it's this easy. Personally, I think anyone who tells you human cytochrome C is closer to a sunflower than a chimpanzee (when human and chimp sequences are identical), or misrepresents two differently dated mammoths as being the same animal, is a con artist.

Well I hope this helped. Okay bye

No, it didn't. Sorry. Same old same old which I've seen from any number of creationists.

 

[Dutchunter]

A reminder to all:

This is the "Creation Science & Theistic Evolution" forum. Only Christians are permitted to post here. If you are a non-Christian, please refrain from posting here. There is another forum, "Science, Creation & Evolution", which is in the open forums area, and all are permitted to post in that forum. This one is for Christians Only.

I've read thru both forums and I cannot tell the difference. Anyone could say "I'm a Christian" and post their nonsense here anyway. Is there a Creation only forum where we can discuss God's awesome Creation and not have to argue with those who claim that "science" proves them right, when in fact it seems every day they're proven wrong and can only offer- well, things change.

 

[notto]

I've read thru both forums and I cannot tell the difference. Anyone could say "I'm a Christian" and post their nonsense here anyway. Is there a Creation only forum where we can discuss God's awesome Creation and not have to argue with those who claim that "science" proves them right, when in fact it seems every day they're proven wrong and can only offer- well, things change.

Most of us here, even us theistic evolutionist are discussing God's awesome Creation. What is being discussed is HOW God created. You seem to be confusing accepting God as the Creator with Creationism theology and 'theories'. They are not the same.