here is the artivle... its the same one i read
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/cenv22n1_dating_failure.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/cenv22n1_dating_failure.asp
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Dr. Dino, a look at an article...
- Thread starter Arikay
- Start date
World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 10<SUP>89</SUP>.
from - Morris, Henry, Scientific Creationism (El Cajon, CA: Master Books)
from - Morris, Henry, Scientific Creationism (El Cajon, CA: Master Books)
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CoHehir said
Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years.
WHERE do you people come up with this stuff?
Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years.
WHERE do you people come up with this stuff?
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this link is to an aig article on the cave drawings
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v21n1_aboriginals_dinosaurs.asp
and on the dating method...they did not use carbon 14 they used pottassium argon dating which does date millions of years and i dont think the lava flows were alive
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v21n1_aboriginals_dinosaurs.asp
and on the dating method...they did not use carbon 14 they used pottassium argon dating which does date millions of years and i dont think the lava flows were alive
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taken from: http://www.geocities.com/kenthovind/1proofs2.html
"Those who imagine that eight people gave rise to all living today according to a simple exponential growth curve have demonstrated an inability to think things through._ Let's look at the equation involved in these growth rate calculations.
P(n) = P(1 + r)n
P(n) is the population generated after n years._ (With the proper adjustment of r, n could be months or generations, etc._ For our purposes, years will do nicely and r will be adjusted accordingly.)__ P is the initial population which, in our case, is eight._ The growth rate is r which would be close to zero for humanity per year._ A negative value would indicate a population decline._ Henry Morris used a value for r of 0.0033 [0.33%] in a similar calculation which started with Adam and Eve._ However, since the flood supposedly reduced the population to eight people 1656 years after creation, a figure Dr. Hovind gives based on patriarchal ages, we should start our exponential curve at the latter date._ If we assume, for the sake of this argument, that the earth is 6000 years old, then we start our calculation with 8 people 4344 years ago._ We must wind up with the present population of 5.5 billion people, the figure given by Dr. Hovind.
It turns out that if r = 0.0047 then after 4344 years we would wind up with about 5.6 billion people, which is close enough._ After substituting the values for P and r into the above equation we are at liberty to try out different values for n to obtain the population at different times._ At the time the Israelites entered Canaan, we get a world population of 2024!_ By the time you divide that up between Egypt, Canaan, the rest of the world, and Israel, that leaves maybe 6 or 7 people for the Israeli army!_ If we go back to the time that the Hykos were expelled from Egypt, in 1560 BC, we get a world population of 325 people!
We can't calculate the population at the time the Great Pyramid of Cheops was built, around 2500 BC, because it was supposedly washed away by Noah's flood!!_ Being an antediluvian structure, many people might have been available to work on it._ Odd, that the Great Pyramid of Cheops shows no water marks._ Stranger still, that the Egyptians should be unaware of Noah's flood!_ I would think that Noah's flood, coming a mere century or thereabouts after the Great Pyramid of Cheops was built, would have found a prominent place in the Egyptian annuals. "
"Those who imagine that eight people gave rise to all living today according to a simple exponential growth curve have demonstrated an inability to think things through._ Let's look at the equation involved in these growth rate calculations.
P(n) = P(1 + r)n
P(n) is the population generated after n years._ (With the proper adjustment of r, n could be months or generations, etc._ For our purposes, years will do nicely and r will be adjusted accordingly.)__ P is the initial population which, in our case, is eight._ The growth rate is r which would be close to zero for humanity per year._ A negative value would indicate a population decline._ Henry Morris used a value for r of 0.0033 [0.33%] in a similar calculation which started with Adam and Eve._ However, since the flood supposedly reduced the population to eight people 1656 years after creation, a figure Dr. Hovind gives based on patriarchal ages, we should start our exponential curve at the latter date._ If we assume, for the sake of this argument, that the earth is 6000 years old, then we start our calculation with 8 people 4344 years ago._ We must wind up with the present population of 5.5 billion people, the figure given by Dr. Hovind.
It turns out that if r = 0.0047 then after 4344 years we would wind up with about 5.6 billion people, which is close enough._ After substituting the values for P and r into the above equation we are at liberty to try out different values for n to obtain the population at different times._ At the time the Israelites entered Canaan, we get a world population of 2024!_ By the time you divide that up between Egypt, Canaan, the rest of the world, and Israel, that leaves maybe 6 or 7 people for the Israeli army!_ If we go back to the time that the Hykos were expelled from Egypt, in 1560 BC, we get a world population of 325 people!
We can't calculate the population at the time the Great Pyramid of Cheops was built, around 2500 BC, because it was supposedly washed away by Noah's flood!!_ Being an antediluvian structure, many people might have been available to work on it._ Odd, that the Great Pyramid of Cheops shows no water marks._ Stranger still, that the Egyptians should be unaware of Noah's flood!_ I would think that Noah's flood, coming a mere century or thereabouts after the Great Pyramid of Cheops was built, would have found a prominent place in the Egyptian annuals. "
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wait aminute...carrying capacity. hold the train buddy. arent humans the only animal that multiplies beyond the resources available. and if one third of the population of the world will be wiped out in 82 years that means at least 2 billion will die. wow thats quite a bit. and do you mean the world as we knew it at the time or what? because yeah the plague wiped out a third of europe but did really touch the rest of the world as much
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mjiracek said
this link is to an aig article on the cave drawings ...
LOL! You're a funny guy.
this link is to an aig article on the cave drawings ...
LOL! You're a funny guy.
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Yep, I was just refering to another time where radiometric data was missused to provide false proof.
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No. Because we are able to invent technology to stretch what resources we have. Humans are subject to population limitations based on resources like every other creature on the planet.
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yeah well you used a totally different example arikay and you still have not disproven the one i just gave you
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
How does using K/Ar dating outside of its known limitations invalidate the method?
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yeah but harcoff...we unlike other animals do not breed until we have met the reasources and then find a balance. we breed like rabbits and keep doing so because we are stupid. we are the only animal that does so
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As others have mentioned, they Missused K/Ar dating.
We are not the only animal that does that.
Many viruses also do the same thing, etc.
We are not the only animal that does that.
Many viruses also do the same thing, etc.
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The "balance" is achieved by animals not surviving because of reduced resources. Humans are not exempt to that. However, because of certain technologies (agriculture, for example), we can increase the carrying capacity of our environment and/or move into other environments that would otherwise be unhospitable.
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K-aR was not being tested outside of its limits. it tested something which it should have been able to do. it was not a living goat. yet it found a the evidence to reveal that the flows were in some cases millions of years old.
also, how do we know what chemicals will have certain half lives and why do we assume that not major events will happen to those specimens of the course of time to mess with their results. (e.g. earthquakes, floods, fires...)
also, how do we know what chemicals will have certain half lives and why do we assume that not major events will happen to those specimens of the course of time to mess with their results. (e.g. earthquakes, floods, fires...)
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so there fore harcoff we should be able to breed quicker since we do not have to worry about our carrying capacity right? i mean if the food is growing in the field how about me and the wife procreate?
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Again, the goat was from an example of the missuse of Carbon 14 dating.
May I suggest reading about radiometric dating in the link I provided.
May I suggest reading about radiometric dating in the link I provided.
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
And if radiometric dating is so inaccurate, then why do they match up when cross referenced with other methods?
notto's thread http://www.christianforums.com/threads/35581.html is one of my favorites regarding the dating method and how it relates to plate tectonics as well.
The dating method correlates with rough estimates of the ages of the seamounts in the chain when you assume constant plate spreading rates (as well as changes in direction of the plate's motion over the Hawaiian hot spot), it correlates with magnetic anomaly data (also represented on the magnetic anomaly timescale), and it also correlates with biostratigraphy--or looking at sedimentary cores and the microfossils of marine fauna therein. No such correlations should be possible if it is so fatally flawed a method. Furthermore, you can also cross reference radiometric age dating methods with each other (as there are several of them) and they do correlate. If the methods were so flawed this would nearly never happen.
Radiometric dating is a well-established practice that is improving with time as better technology yields better precision and accuracy. Documents from ICR and/or AiG and/or Dr. Dino use the ignorance of their readers to their advantage. That is to say, the people whom they are trying to convince don't know enough about the method to make a reasonable judgement on their arguments and they tell people what they want to hear (that dating methods are flawed, ergo young earth--though that argument is constructed from a flawed sense of reasoning itself).
notto's thread http://www.christianforums.com/threads/35581.html is one of my favorites regarding the dating method and how it relates to plate tectonics as well.
The dating method correlates with rough estimates of the ages of the seamounts in the chain when you assume constant plate spreading rates (as well as changes in direction of the plate's motion over the Hawaiian hot spot), it correlates with magnetic anomaly data (also represented on the magnetic anomaly timescale), and it also correlates with biostratigraphy--or looking at sedimentary cores and the microfossils of marine fauna therein. No such correlations should be possible if it is so fatally flawed a method. Furthermore, you can also cross reference radiometric age dating methods with each other (as there are several of them) and they do correlate. If the methods were so flawed this would nearly never happen.
Radiometric dating is a well-established practice that is improving with time as better technology yields better precision and accuracy. Documents from ICR and/or AiG and/or Dr. Dino use the ignorance of their readers to their advantage. That is to say, the people whom they are trying to convince don't know enough about the method to make a reasonable judgement on their arguments and they tell people what they want to hear (that dating methods are flawed, ergo young earth--though that argument is constructed from a flawed sense of reasoning itself).
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