Doubting God's existence occasionally after belief

[oikonomia]

Free Grace theology does Grace Evangelical Society and i am sure other's do also.

Actually a Calvinist who is a member of Christian Forums started a thread topic about this a few weeks back.

I am no Calvinist but just saying he did start a thread about the sinners prayer.
The sinners prayer. A lie straight out of the pits of hell.

I don't care what label you wish to wear.
You're exaggerating an unnecessary objection.

You might listen to the testimonies of people and see the many ways people came to salvation.

 

[oikonomia]

I don't care what label you wish to wear.
You're exaggerating an unnecessary objection.

You might listen to the testimonies of people and see the many ways people came to salvation.

Which part of your specimen of a "sinner's prayer" comes from hell ?

Break an example down and point out the words which are from hell.

 

[tonychanyt]

Free Grace theology does Grace Evangelical Society and i am sure other's do also.

Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making. No need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole chapter.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it

 

[Halbhh]

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You can easily end this debate, just simply show in The Bible, the use of "the sinners prayer" in evangelism to unbelievers, as the way to receive eternal life/everlasting life.

When Christ began to preach the gospel, He preached:

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

In Mark:

15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, Mark 1:15 - English Standard Version

“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

www.biblegateway.com

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So, as you can see, we must repent and believe.



The summary in 1rst John on this:

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1 - New International Version

The Incarnation of the Word of Life - That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim...

www.biblegateway.com

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Consider what Christ taught is needed -- admitting we are sinners:

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Luke 18 NIV

biblehub.com

If we believe but do not admit to being a sinner, we'd be like the pharisee in Luke 18 above.
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@tonychanyt in case you are interested in more passages.

 

[d taylor]

When Christ began to preach the gospel, He preached:

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

In Mark:

15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, Mark 1:15 - English Standard Version

“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

www.biblegateway.com

--------
So, as you can see, we must repent and believe.



The summary in 1rst John on this:

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1 - New International Version

The Incarnation of the Word of Life - That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim...

www.biblegateway.com

------------

Consider what Christ taught is needed -- admitting we are sinners:

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Luke 18 NIV

biblehub.com

If we believe but do not admit to being a sinner, we'd be like the pharisee in Luke 18 above.
-------

@tonychanyt in case you are interested in more passages.

No mention by Jesus to the woman at the well she had to repent, no mention to Nicodemus that he needed to repent to be born again, no mention of repentance in John 6:28,29 when ask what is the works does God require, no mention of repentance to Martha in John 11 when Jesus is raising Lazarus, etc...

No mention of Paul repenting on the road to Damascus, no mention by Paul of repenting when ask by the jailer what must i do to be saved.

 

[d taylor]

I don't care what label you wish to wear.
You're exaggerating an unnecessary objection.

You might listen to the testimonies of people and see the many ways people came to salvation.

There is only one way to receive Eternal Life salvation, belief/faith in Jesus.

 

[oikonomia]

No mention by Jesus to the woman at the well she had to repent, no mention to Nicodemus that he needed to repent to be born again, no mention of repentance in John 6:28,29 when ask what is the works does God require, no mention of repentance to Martha in John 11 when Jesus is raising Lazarus, etc...

No mention of Paul repenting on the road to Damascus, no mention by Paul of repenting when ask by the jailer what must i do to be saved.

That is right. Nowhere in the Gospel of John do we find the word "repent." Check me on that, you scholars.

So What ?
So because John never writes "repent" we call prayers including repentance as coming from hell??
How ridiculous!

Repent really means to change the way one THINKS.
You can believe that on the road to Damascus Saul of Tarsus had a change in his thinking.

What are we to do? Shall we disqualify Paul's conversion because he didn't use "the sinner's prayer"?
Isn't that silly?
What are we to do? Should we condemn what some dear saints came up with as "the sinner's prayer" as a product from the pits of hell??

Go ahead. And the Devil is laughing at us for being so foolish.

 

[oikonomia]

There is only one way to receive Eternal Life salvation, belief/faith in Jesus.

I have never heard anyone make a legality out of using "the sinner's prayer."
Now maybe you heard someone make it a legal matter as if you cannot be saved any other way.

I have never heard anyone make such a case.
And I would not over react that because some utilize "the sinner's prayer" to preach the Gospel we should fight against it.

 

[oikonomia]

There is only one way to receive Eternal Life salvation, belief/faith in Jesus.

Which part of the typical "sinner's prayer" as used by say Campus Crusade for Christ or some other evangelistic outreach,
is contrary to "belief/faith in Jesus?"

I do not have an example of such "sinner's prayer" before me right now.
If you have a specimen or two, point out the phrases or sentences which are AGAINST "belief/faith in Jesus"

And if you can't do that, or won't, consider that you're erecting an unneccessary problem to debate over.

 

[d taylor]

Which part of the typical "sinner's prayer" as used by say Campus Crusade for Christ or some other evangelistic outreach,
is contrary to "belief/faith in Jesus?"

I do not have an example of such "sinner's prayer" before me right now.
If you have a specimen or two, point out the phrases or sentences which are AGAINST "belief/faith in Jesus"

And if you can't do that, or won't, consider that you're erecting an unneccessary problem to debate over.

If you need to use a sinners prayer, I would say something worded like this.

God i am a sinner (which God already knows) but i am believing in Jesus for Eternal Life. I believe Jesus is the resurrection and the life and that receiving Eternal Life is by faith in Jesus.

 

[oikonomia]

If you need to use a sinners prayer, I would say something worded like this.

God i am a sinner (which God already knows) but i am believing in Jesus for Eternal Life. I believe Jesus is the resurrection and the life and that receiving Eternal Life is by faith in Jesus.

That reply was at least more constructive imo.
Perhaps you had some realization that you have gone a little too far to say a few things you said.

The prayer you offer is wonderful.
I would offer one too - "Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus my Lord I come to You. Thankyou for receiving me LORD Jesus."

Many of us didn't know very much when we receive Jesus as Lord.
There will be time when we realize our sins, the extent of our sins, the need for forgiveness, etc, etc,
But He is indeed "rich to all that call upon Him"

All the riches of what come along with this living Lord Jesus will come when HE comes.
It will take a life time and eternity probably to realize ALL that has come to us and into us with this resurrected and living LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[d taylor]

That reply was at least more constructive imo.
Perhaps you had some realization that you have gone a little too far to say a few things you said.

The prayer you offer is wonderful.
I would offer one too - "Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus my Lord I come to You. Thankyou for receiving me LORD Jesus."

Many of us didn't know very much when we receive Jesus as Lord.
There will be time when we realize our sins, the extent of our sins, the need for forgiveness, etc, etc,
But He is indeed "rich to all that call upon Him"

All the riches of what come along with this living Lord Jesus will come when HE comes.
It will take a life time and eternity probably to realize ALL that has come to us and into us with this resurrected and living LORD JESUS CHRIST.

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No i do not regret being critical of the sinners prayer. But if people need something to say, i thought to at least offer up something that can be based of of The Bible and how The Bible states a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[Halbhh]

No mention by Jesus to the woman at the well she had to repent, no mention to Nicodemus that he needed to repent to be born again,

Let's notice though:

1 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4 And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 5 He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” 8 And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

God literally tells us to listen to all that Christ taught.

The disciples did listen, so when Christ commanded them:

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

They did as He said: teaching that we should obey all He taught.

When Peter said:

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

He was obeying Christ's instruction.

 

[d taylor]

Let's notice though:

1 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4 And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 5 He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” 8 And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

God literally tells us to listen to all that Christ taught.

The disciples did listen, so when Christ commanded them:

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

They did as He said: teaching that we should obey all He taught.

When Peter said:

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

He was obeying Christ's instruction.

Peter was addressing the forgiving of sins of the men of Israel. Peter was not addressing what unbelievers need to do to become a born again child of God, which is only by belief in Jesus.

 

[Halbhh]

Peter was addressing the forgiving of sins of the men of Israel. Peter was not addressing what unbelievers need to do to become a born again child of God, which is only by belief in Jesus.

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."


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We all should of course entirely trust Christ about this.

 

[d taylor]

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."


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We all should of course entirely trust Christ about this.

A disciple is made from a believer (born again childern of God). But to first become a believer an unbeliever must believe in Jesus.

 

[oikonomia]

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No i do not regret being critical of the sinners prayer. But if people need something to say, i thought to at least offer up something that can be based of of The Bible and how The Bible states a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If I recall rightly you said it was "from the pits of hell."
And you should have some regret for saying that.

And I still see no specimen or example of "the sinners prayer" whereby I might examine your example and locate
exactly what you find seems so evil or the work of God's enemy.

Anyway, there is to my knowledge no copywrited version of such so-called "The Sinner's Prayer".
So the accusation is too vague here and unsubstantiated to me.

There are many ways a person can pray, call, ask, believe to receive Jesus the Son of God and subsequently have Him as eternal life.

Though you think some urged written prayers don't come up to your standard of orthodoxy the simple truth is that
"He who has the Son has the life."

He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:12,13)

 

[d taylor]

If I recall rightly you said it was "from the pits of hell."
And you should have some regret for saying that.

And I still see no specimen or example of "the sinners prayer" whereby I might examine your example and locate
exactly what you find seems so evil or the work of God's enemy.

Anyway, there is to my knowledge no copywrited version of such so-called "The Sinner's Prayer".
So the accusation is too vague here and unsubstantiated to me.

There are many ways a person can pray, call, ask, believe to receive Jesus the Son of God and subsequently have Him as eternal life.

Though you think some urged written prayers don't come up to your standard of orthodoxy the simple truth is that
"He who has the Son has the life."

He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:12,13)

You can not understand that i posted a link to a person's thread topic about the sinners prayer. And it was this person who started the thread that made the statement "from the pits of hell.".

The question is why can you not see and understand that.

 

[oikonomia]

You can not understand that i posted a link to a person's thread topic about the sinners prayer. And it was this person who started the thread that made the statement "from the pits of hell.".

The question is why can you not see and understand that.

Okay. Excuse me then for attributing the "pits of hell" comment to you.