Doubting Believer

[dlamberth]

To answer your rather silly question God is NOT nothing.

I'm working with this when you wrote"
"I'm telling you that it all had to be created because nothing cannot create something out of nothing."

Being that God is something and you said that nothing cannot exist out of nothing, that begs the question, who/what created God?

I'm staying on this because I thinks it's a question about the nature of God. God very well could be an ongoing and forever creating energy of life itself that is the Creator rather than a benevolent being directing the Creating.

 

[SteveB28]

I answered the post. Re-read my post.

You replied to the message, but you avoided the question. Making unsubstantiated claims about the origin of life is not "trumping" science. I could make the claim that life was created by Russell's Teapot, whirling silently between ourselves and Mars. It has the ability to generate life you know.

There. Have I "trumped" science with my fanciful claim?

Please try again.

 

[revrobor]

I'm working with this when you wrote"
"I'm telling you that it all had to be created because nothing cannot create something out of nothing."

Being that God is something and you said that nothing cannot exist out of nothing, that begs the question, who/what created God?

I'm staying on this because I thinks it's a question about the nature of God. God very well could be an ongoing and forever creating energy of life itself that is the Creator rather than a benevolent being directing the Creating.

You must be new at this atheist thing because you ask a question that just about every person who claims to an atheist asks. No one created God. He has always been. He is a Spirit. This Earth, the universe and all space and all that's in or on it was created by the one we call God. The only physical representation of Him is Jesus Christ. Before you even ask we use the male gender in addressing Him because the earliest writings that are now in the Bible use male terminology in referring to God. We know nothing about what occurred before the Creation recorded in the Bible. And frankly, neither does the scientific community.

 

[SteveB28]

You must be new at this atheist thing because you ask a question that just about every person who claims to an atheist asks. No one created God. He has always been. He is a Spirit. This Earth, the universe and all space and all that's in or on it was created by the one we call God. The only physical representation of Him is Jesus Christ. Before you even ask we use the male gender in addressing Him because the earliest writings that are now in the Bible use male terminology in referring to God. We know nothing about what occurred before the Creation recorded in the Bible. And frankly, neither does the scientific community.

The reason that that particular question tends to be repeated is because none of you are able to answer it in a manner which conforms to your own claims!

This is known as Special Pleading. You create a principle which you claim is to be universally applied ("nothing can come from nothing, all must be created") and then you immediately create an exception to that universal principle ("except for my God, of course!").

You create a contradiction. And the only solution to that contradiction is to concede that either:

a) Your God must have been created, in keeping with your universal principle, or

b) Your principle fails to be universal, so that, if one exception is permitted, there is no logical reason to prevent other exceptions.

 

[Ana the Ist]

No. I'm telling you that it all had to be created because nothing cannot create something out of nothing. Even your beloved scientists will tell you that. It just did not exist before it existed.

Are virtual particles really constantly popping in and out of existence? Or are they merely a mathematical bookkeeping device for quantum mechanics? - Scientific American

Actually, our beloved scientists disagree with you on this...

 

[selfinflikted]

The reason that that particular question tends to be repeated is because none of you are able to answer it in a manner which conforms to your own claims!

This is known as Special Pleading. You create a principle which you claim is to be universally applied ("nothing can come from nothing, all must be created") and then you immediately create an exception to that universal principle ("except for my God, of course!").

You create a contradiction. And the only solution to that contradiction is to concede that either:

a) Your God must have been created, in keeping with your universal principle, or

b) Your principle fails to be universal, so that, if one exception is permitted, there is no logical reason to prevent other exceptions.

 

[BucksWordBearer]

The reason that that particular question tends to be repeated is because none of you are able to answer it in a manner which conforms to your own claims!

This is known as Special Pleading. You create a principle which you claim is to be universally applied ("nothing can come from nothing, all must be created") and then you immediately create an exception to that universal principle ("except for my God, of course!").

You create a contradiction. And the only solution to that contradiction is to concede that either:

a) Your God must have been created, in keeping with your universal principle, or

b) Your principle fails to be universal, so that, if one exception is permitted, there is no logical reason to prevent other exceptions.

It should be noted that this principle Doesn't have to be universally applied as we're dealing with two entirely different systems. The first system is our natural universe in which typically things are caused by other things. This is where we apply this principle as all things in this universe operate in a little measurement called time. The other system which mostly only Theists/Deists believe in operates outside of time and is where our God is located. Everything that operates in the first universe is said to need a cause because all objects subjected to time have a beginning point. The same cannot be said for the system without time because there is no beginning point for these entities/objects. So the bottom line is God requires no beginning and I would actually argue it is paramount that the first cause be something that has no beginning as to prevent infinite regress.

These simply misunderstandings arise because of a lack of knowledge of theistic/deistic belief.

Cheers.

 

[selfinflikted]

These simply misunderstandings arise because of a lack of knowledge of theistic/deistic belief.

We know about the beliefs, and we understand them. We just don't believe them to be true.

Do you have any evidence of some dimension outside of space and time where god allegedly resides?

 

[Strathos]

You must be new at this atheist thing because you ask a question that just about every person who claims to an atheist asks. No one created God. He has always been. He is a Spirit. This Earth, the universe and all space and all that's in or on it was created by the one we call God. The only physical representation of Him is Jesus Christ. Before you even ask we use the male gender in addressing Him because the earliest writings that are now in the Bible use male terminology in referring to God. We know nothing about what occurred before the Creation recorded in the Bible. And frankly, neither does the scientific community.

That person's icon says they are "other religion", not atheist.

 

[dlamberth]

You must be new at this atheist thing because you ask a question that just about every person who claims to an atheist asks.

Actually, I'm very much a Lover of God. I notice you did not or can not answer my question though. It has to do with the nature of God that we worship. You have said that something can not come from nothing, and that God is something. So who/what Created God? I'm just working with your own logic.

.

 

[revrobor]

The reason that that particular question tends to be repeated is because none of you are able to answer it in a manner which conforms to your own claims!

This is known as Special Pleading. You create a principle which you claim is to be universally applied ("nothing can come from nothing, all must be created") and then you immediately create an exception to that universal principle ("except for my God, of course!").

You create a contradiction. And the only solution to that contradiction is to concede that either:

a) Your God must have been created, in keeping with your universal principle, or

b) Your principle fails to be universal, so that, if one exception is permitted, there is no logical reason to prevent other exceptions.

I think you are being deliberately ignorant in order to attempt to justify your atheism. God is not His creation. He has always existed and will always exist. And one day He will return to establish His eternal Kingdom and judge the living (spiritually) and the dead (spiritually). You have this to look forward to.

 

[selfinflikted]

I think you are being deliberately ignorant in order to attempt to justify your atheism.

It's a valid question.

 

[revrobor]

You have the answer.

 

[dlamberth]

God is not His creation.

That God IS this Creation is the only answer that I'm able to see that answers the question your not able to answer.

.

 

[selfinflikted]

You have the answer.

But you refuse to answer.

 

[dlamberth]

The other system which mostly only Theists/Deists believe in operates outside of time and is where our God is located.

Just to nit-pick a little, what your wrote here is not necessarily universal among all Theist. My guess is that its mostly within the Abrahamic religions that operate that way because their image of God is of something separate and apart from this Creation.

.

 

[TomZzyzx]

The reason that that particular question tends to be repeated is because none of you are able to answer it in a manner which conforms to your own claims!

This is known as Special Pleading. You create a principle which you claim is to be universally applied ("nothing can come from nothing, all must be created") and then you immediately create an exception to that universal principle ("except for my God, of course!").

You create a contradiction. And the only solution to that contradiction is to concede that either:

a) Your God must have been created, in keeping with your universal principle, or

b) Your principle fails to be universal, so that, if one exception is permitted, there is no logical reason to prevent other exceptions.

Let me clear this up for you.

The Law of Causality does not say that everything needs a cause. It says that everything that comes to be needs a cause. God did not come to be. No one created God. He is eternal. God did not have a beginning, so he did not need a cause.

 

[bhsmte]

Let me clear this up for you.

The Law of Causality does not say that everything needs a cause. It says that everything that comes to be needs a cause. God did not come to be. No one created God. He is eternal. God did not have a beginning, so he did not need a cause.

Why does God get a special exemption?

 

[dlamberth]

...so he did not need a cause.

God's basic nature, as I understand it, is the need to Create. Is that not a cause?

.

 

[SteveB28]

I think you are being deliberately ignorant in order to attempt to justify your atheism. God is not His creation. He has always existed and will always exist. And one day He will return to establish His eternal Kingdom and judge the living (spiritually) and the dead (spiritually). You have this to look forward to.

Putting the meaningless veiled threats to one side, you are still confronted with part b) - if you posit an exception to your 'rule' for your God, then there is no logical barrier to other exceptions being permitted.

By the way - "establish"? If your God has always been, hasn't his "kingdom" always existed? Why would it require establishing?