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Double Standard

Delvianna

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I ran across this idea today and whats interesting is that most people hold to a double standard between us and Christ.

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
Pretty harsh coming from Christ right? But what about these verses?

1 Peter 3:15-16
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
Or

2 Timothy 2:24
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

Now we know we're allowed to be angry.

Ephesians 4:26
“Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath,

Soooooo the question is, can you be angry and repeat what Christ did against the pharisees and it be okay when dealing with other Christians? Because it seems like people hold a double standard that it was okay for Christ to do it, but we are never allowed to because "its wrong". But if it was wrong, then Jesus would have been wrong because either something is wrong or something is right and there is no double standard in Gods rules. Specially since we are supposed to imitate Christ.

My thought is that the verses talking about conduct is a general teaching. Not necessarily an all or nothing idea. Because if its all or nothing you would have to say then that Christ was in the wrong by just raising his voice and calling them vipers. So in general, here is the behavior but be slow to anger (James 1:19-20) and if angry, do not sin.

What do you guys think?
 

St_Worm2

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I ran across this idea today and whats interesting is that most people hold to a double standard between us and Christ.
Hello Delvianna, this is an interesting topic. Thanks for broaching it :oldthumbsup:

My thought about the above is this, if the Lord Jesus is doing something that we shy away from, perhaps the best thing to do is to figure out why (which I think is the point of this thread, yes? .. so again :oldthumbsup:).

Matthew 3:7 Pretty harsh coming from Christ right?
"Love" ("God is love") is one of the three nouns in the Bible that help us understand who God really is/what He is truly like. So, if our understanding of His love for us does not include Him being angry and harsh at times, then the problem isn't with Him, it's with us and our understanding of Him and His love, yes?

But what about these verses? 1 Peter 3:15-16 Or 2 Timothy 2:24
These two short passages (I'm including v25, 2 Timothy 2:24-25, that is) seem to be speaking (at least principally) about how to conduct ourselves in the presence of unbelievers (so that we can help them find Him). On the other hand, calling the Pharisees (the Jewish religious leaders) a "brood of vipers" (vipers are snakes that eat their own young) seems both fitting ~and~ necessary in this case, as the Pharisees were not only on the road to perdition themselves, they were also busy leading the people they served down the same road with them :oops:

The "loving" thing to do in this case (or so it seems to me) would have hardly been for the Lord to pat them on the back and thank them for their efforts on behalf of His people (and hope that being "nice" to them, instead of telling them what they needed to hear, might eventually change their way of thinking). Rather, He intervened (harshly), both for the sake of His people/their congregants, and for the sake of the Pharisees themselves, whose teachings were leading the people to Hell, instead of to Him .. e.g. Matthew 23:15.

Ephesians 4:26 Now we know we're allowed to be angry.
Not just "allowed", commanded. "Be angry" (orgizo/ὀργίζω) is in the imperative mood, as is its qualifying phrase in this case, "do not sin".

Whoops, gotta go right now, but I hope to be back later this evening. Again, a very interesting thread! Thanks :)

God bless you!!

--David
 
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Gregory Thompson

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What do you guys think?
I'm reminded that we need to "leave room for God's wrath"

If we do God's job for Him, there's no room for Him in our lives either.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I ran across this idea today and whats interesting is that most people hold to a double standard between us and Christ.

Matthew 3:7

Pretty harsh coming from Christ right? But what about these verses?

1 Peter 3:15-16

Or

2 Timothy 2:24


Now we know we're allowed to be angry.

Ephesians 4:26


Soooooo the question is, can you be angry and repeat what Christ did against the pharisees and it be okay when dealing with other Christians? Because it seems like people hold a double standard that it was okay for Christ to do it, but we are never allowed to because "its wrong". But if it was wrong, then Jesus would have been wrong because either something is wrong or something is right and there is no double standard in Gods rules. Specially since we are supposed to imitate Christ.

My thought is that the verses talking about conduct is a general teaching. Not necessarily an all or nothing idea. Because if its all or nothing you would have to say then that Christ was in the wrong by just raising his voice and calling them vipers. So in general, here is the behavior but be slow to anger (James 1:19-20) and if angry, do not sin.

What do you guys think?

I think I generally agree with you.
 
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ChubbyCherub

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I think righteous wrath, particularly where it used to correct the actions of those who are believers or those who lead others, is fine.

I think this was what Jesus was doing. He also flipped tables in a synagogue.
 
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Servus

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I ran across this idea today and whats interesting is that most people hold to a double standard between us and Christ.

Matthew 3:7

Pretty harsh coming from Christ right? But what about these verses?

1 Peter 3:15-16

Or

2 Timothy 2:24


Now we know we're allowed to be angry.

Ephesians 4:26


Soooooo the question is, can you be angry and repeat what Christ did against the pharisees and it be okay when dealing with other Christians? Because it seems like people hold a double standard that it was okay for Christ to do it, but we are never allowed to because "its wrong". But if it was wrong, then Jesus would have been wrong because either something is wrong or something is right and there is no double standard in Gods rules. Specially since we are supposed to imitate Christ.

My thought is that the verses talking about conduct is a general teaching. Not necessarily an all or nothing idea. Because if its all or nothing you would have to say then that Christ was in the wrong by just raising his voice and calling them vipers. So in general, here is the behavior but be slow to anger (James 1:19-20) and if angry, do not sin.

What do you guys think?
Jesus came as the last prophet and judge of Israel. Unlike Jesus we are not God, who's prerogative it is to judge and pronounce doom. Also Jesus only directed such at His priesthood, who were being bad shepherds of His sheep.
 
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Delvianna

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Jesus came as the last prophet and judge of Israel. Unlike Jesus we are not God, who's prerogative it is to judge and pronounce doom. Also Jesus only directed such at His priesthood, who were being bad shepherds of His sheep.
See, I read that and think, "double standard". Do you have any verses to back this up?
 
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CoreyD

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I ran across this idea today and whats interesting is that most people hold to a double standard between us and Christ.

Matthew 3:7

Pretty harsh coming from Christ right? But what about these verses?

1 Peter 3:15-16

Or

2 Timothy 2:24


Now we know we're allowed to be angry.

Ephesians 4:26


Soooooo the question is, can you be angry and repeat what Christ did against the pharisees and it be okay when dealing with other Christians? Because it seems like people hold a double standard that it was okay for Christ to do it, but we are never allowed to because "its wrong". But if it was wrong, then Jesus would have been wrong because either something is wrong or something is right and there is no double standard in Gods rules. Specially since we are supposed to imitate Christ.

My thought is that the verses talking about conduct is a general teaching. Not necessarily an all or nothing idea. Because if its all or nothing you would have to say then that Christ was in the wrong by just raising his voice and calling them vipers. So in general, here is the behavior but be slow to anger (James 1:19-20) and if angry, do not sin.

What do you guys think?
Very interesting.
Not only Christ, but Paul himself.
(Acts 13:9, 10) 9 But Saul, who is also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fastened his eyes on him, 10 and said, O full of all guile and all villany, thou son of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
Imaging calling someone the son or daughter of Satan. That's close to saying, "You witch!" Or "Evil person!".

The way I see it, is that Jesus and the apostles had what God's people today, do not have.
They could perform miracles, and even have visions. Jesus could even read minds. All of this was because they were specially empowered by God's holy spirit.
Thus, God would have moved them to call out those under Satan's authority.

Also, "there is an appointed time for everything." Ecclesiastes 3:1
Remember that God has an appointed time of judgment. The judgment of the Jewish system was in the first century, from the time of John the Baptist, until 70 C.E. Matthew 23:37-39;
So, strong denunciation was called for, since these one had been judged. John 3:18

Satan himself is judged. John 16:11
An appointed time of judgment will also occur in the near future, when judgment will again be rendered, and people will be called out... at God's appointed time. 1 Peter 2:17
 
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stevevw

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I ran across this idea today and whats interesting is that most people hold to a double standard between us and Christ.

Matthew 3:7

Pretty harsh coming from Christ right? But what about these verses?

1 Peter 3:15-16
I think these are responding to different situations. For whatever reasons it seems the Pharisees were a certain thorn or representation of someone who uses God to deny others Christ the true way to God. So it deserves more condemnation. The hearts of the Pharisees was already hardened and there was not reasoning.

Whereas I think Peter is speaking about a different disposition. Rather than the Pharisees having a hardened heart a person coming to you or someone you encounter in a situation who may be open to God and struggling. Or that the situation is that the truth can be told or should be told.

That it be as it should be done when reasonable people come together and are at least open to the truth. Otherwise by being angry in the wrong context may blemish that message or reproving.
Or

2 Timothy 2:24
This seems to relate to Pauls qualifications for an Elder. So I am wondering of this sheds any light. The teachings that seem to be about correcting or telling others is perhaps to Christians or maybe God fearers who were interested but not comitted. Still searching.

I do think much was about other Christians or new Christians when it says be gentle and to be of good standing to be able to help and teach others. THis is really a life truth principle that to be able to have respect and be believed we have to first be the example.

I think this primarily goes back to the idea of being a servant in Christ and despite being the greatest teacher was also a servant and humbled himself that He may be the example of goodness and obedience.

Peter mentions something along these lines when he speaks about servants and in general Christians obeying masters and rulers. Even if they are unjust. Not to seek revenge or fight fire with fire in cultural wars. But the good example of obedience and purity of behaviour is what turns people towards God without any words said.

By the simple and radical example of not being the same as everyone else in the political and culture wars. But a good example that can be unblemished or held accountable for such behaviour. When you consider how the culture wars usually end up with people shouting past each other claiming they hold the truth. Christ example is probably the only shining light that causes people to stop and think.
Now we know we're allowed to be angry.
I really think there is rightous anger. Like Christ if you begin to understand how humans can be so evil and deny the truth and actual goodness that God offers. It can be frustrating and I think in certain circumstances like a parent gets upset when their child does something dangerous and you realise. Its sort of a natural reaction. The difference is I think its tempered or grounded in the love of Christ. Its more an anger from love.

But as with most natural things they can get blown out of proportion and exaggerated. Or rather used for selfish or ideological motives. Which then distort the lens and bring in all sorts of subjective feelings and beliefs.

That being said I am not condoning aggression or anger and really its something I think only someone with all the other qualities and control and disposition of Christs example that Paul mentions about Elders being above reproach and living Christs example.

Obviously as anger can easily cause harm part of recognising this is when we overstep the mark and need to make amends. This is probably the greatest way we can humble ourselves and learn to be more Christlike when it comes to anger. And this is really once again a truth principle of life and good relationships.
Soooooo the question is, can you be angry and repeat what Christ did against the pharisees and it be okay when dealing with other Christians? Because it seems like people hold a double standard that it was okay for Christ to do it, but we are never allowed to because "its wrong". But if it was wrong, then Jesus would have been wrong because either something is wrong or something is right and there is no double standard in Gods rules. Specially since we are supposed to imitate Christ.

My thought is that the verses talking about conduct is a general teaching. Not necessarily an all or nothing idea. Because if its all or nothing you would have to say then that Christ was in the wrong by just raising his voice and calling them vipers. So in general, here is the behavior but be slow to anger (James 1:19-20) and if angry, do not sin.

What do you guys think?
I don't think those verses are double standards but rather about specific situations that may require or cause a different reaction or response. Which are going to be based on the lived reality of those situations.

An interesting aspect for Christian beliefs and behaviour as opposed to say mainstream society may see anger from a psychological or sociological lens. Is that as Christians we incoporate the spiritual aspect.

The bible mentions this often. That there is a spiritual battle going on where there will be conflicts between the world and Christian belief. That there will be anger and hatred towards Christians standing with Christ. I think this aspect is unrevalued as a factor in addressing anger.

Its not just biological or emotional or psychological. But also spiritual and I do think that this can cause reactions and sometimes its a spiritual anger so to speak. It may stem from the spiritual but be manifest in emotion or ideological beliefs that are really about a spiritual conflict between Christ truth and the worlds rebellion against God.

Paul and early church fathers were always going on about 'one mind and spirit'. Being unified in mind and spirit. That division was the beginning of sin. That alternative ideas and beliefs would divide and cause conflicts. But being one one mind and spirit would mean less anger and conflict. Not just in a common belief. But as part of that belief in Christ was serving and forgiving others like Christ.
 
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eleos1954

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I ran across this idea today and whats interesting is that most people hold to a double standard between us and Christ.

Matthew 3:7

Pretty harsh coming from Christ right? But what about these verses?

1 Peter 3:15-16

Or

2 Timothy 2:24


Now we know we're allowed to be angry.

Ephesians 4:26


Soooooo the question is, can you be angry and repeat what Christ did against the pharisees and it be okay when dealing with other Christians? Because it seems like people hold a double standard that it was okay for Christ to do it, but we are never allowed to because "its wrong". But if it was wrong, then Jesus would have been wrong because either something is wrong or something is right and there is no double standard in Gods rules. Specially since we are supposed to imitate Christ.

My thought is that the verses talking about conduct is a general teaching. Not necessarily an all or nothing idea. Because if its all or nothing you would have to say then that Christ was in the wrong by just raising his voice and calling them vipers. So in general, here is the behavior but be slow to anger (James 1:19-20) and if angry, do not sin.

What do you guys think?
It's ok to be angry of sin.
 
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com7fy8

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Soooooo the question is, can you be angry and repeat what Christ did against the pharisees and it be okay when dealing with other Christians?
"the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God." (in James 1:20)

My self-righteous anger is what is wrong.

And criticizing without having hope for the person > this is anti-love.
Because love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).
 
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Delvianna

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"the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God." (in James 1:20)

My self-righteous anger is what is wrong.

And criticizing without having hope for the person > this is anti-love.
Because love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).
So apply that to Jesus. Are you part of the double standard crowd that believes Jesus can but we can't do the same thing? Because from what I'm gathering from what you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that you consider Jesus's verbal against the Pharisees as righteous, but if we do it then it's, self righteous?
 
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Niels

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I don't see this as a double standard. Context and nuance are important so we don't want to fall into the trap of legalism. Jesus dealt with specific individuals and circumstances when he wasn't more broadly speaking in parables. Likewise, Paul wrote specific letters to specific groups of Christians. Although anger may be justified in some circumstances, that doesn't mean it's justified in others.
 
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