Don't tell ME it isn't a deviancy! . . . Catholics only, please.

[Ave Maria]

Gay ppl are not the devil, but they are allowing the devil to manipulate their sexuality.

Sad really.

I am personally of the opinion that not all of them can control their sexuality. I do believe that some of them can go through reparative therapy and become heterosexual. However, I do believe that most of them are not homosexual by choice. Such people need to live a chaste life. Then again, we all need to live a chaste life.

 

[Benedicta00]

I am disturbed by the apparent double standard here. The reasons given for why homosexual couples should never be able to adopt apply just as well to other couples, yet few if any here seem to care about those cases.

What part of the Church can not in good conscious place a child in a home where two people are living a gay lifestyle, you do not get?

Kids need a good loving home, yes but they also equally need a male for a dad and a female for a mom. What of that, you are not getting, I don’t know but…

Anything less, like two moms and two dads is disordered and the Church isn’t placing the kids in a disordered lifestyle no matter how ‘loving’ and ‘good’ it may look to you to be.

Personally, even if the kid had all the love in the world, I think it would be psychologically damaging but that’s my opinion, because that is not the lifestyle that is properly ordered and what God has ordained for children to have.

What I don’t understand is, if you are such an advocate for liberal freedom and ‘rights’ why can’t you respect the Church for her beliefs as you want her to respect you for yours and leave the Church alone?

 

[Debi1967]

So other than Debi's reply, which I think the cases she mentioned were not "single" parents (never married and no intent of marrying in the near future) but rather people who either were currently married (barren women, in OT times knew that due to having sex and not having children) or women who had been married (widows) there isn't really anything addressing single parents.

Single parent adoption would not have the opposite sex parent and which would be skipping the sacrament of marriage right to the fruit of marriage (who needs a man - or woman - just adopt) ... and not opposed to or less opposed to unmarried heterosexuals adopting? What is the reasoning behind saying no adoption at all as opposed to having the gay couples be in the que with other sinners, nonChristians or athiest or cases which are not ideal (ideal being stable, married, financially secure heterosexual union of Christian parents).

I think it is possible to be opposed to gay marriage and stand firm on that issue, but also to allow for adoption - given particular requirements are met - for the sake of children in need of love and care.

Marcia

I don't when it is in direct conflict with the Church ....

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

What part of the Church can not in good conscious place a child in a home where two people are living a gay lifestyle, you do not get?

Kids need a good loving home, yes but they also equally need a male for a dad and a female for a mom. What of that, you are not getting, I don’t know but…

Anything less, like two moms and two dads is disordered and the Church isn’t placing the kids in a disordered lifestyle no matter how ‘loving’ and ‘good’ it may look to you to be.

Personally, even if the kid had all the love in the world, I think it would be psychologically damaging but that’s my opinion, because that is not the lifestyle that is properly ordered and what God has ordained for children to have.

What I don’t understand is, if you are such an advocate for liberal freedom and ‘rights’ why can’t you respect the Church for her beliefs as you want her to respect you for yours and leave the Church alone?

The part I don't get is how a gay couple raising a child becomes the most evil thing in the universe. Reading your argument, it would seem that there can be no situation so bad that giving the child to a gay couple could be the better alternative.

 

[Debi1967]

The part I don't get is how a gay couple raising a child becomes the most evil thing in the universe. Reading your argument, it would seem that there can be no situation so bad that giving the child to a gay couple could be the better alternative.

Fragment answer this question directly please

What I don’t understand is, if you are such an advocate for liberal freedom and ‘rights’ why can’t you respect the Church for her beliefs as you want her to respect you for yours and leave the Church alone?

You like to avoid this question so as to promote your way of thinking as the only possible way of thinking .... Now kindly answer it why will you not acknowledge that the Church has a right to Her stance on this subject?

 

[Benedicta00]

The part I don't get is how a gay couple raising a child becomes the most evil thing in the universe. Reading your argument, it would seem that there can be no situation so bad that giving the child to a gay couple could be the better alternative.

Because homosexual lifestyles and having two mommies or having two daddies is intrinsically wrong, disordered and it can be damaging to a child psychologically.

Sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse, mental abuse and neglect aren’t the only things that can damage a child growing up.

Being told you have you have a man for a mother and a women for a father will also.

Is that easy enough to understand?

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Fragment answer this question directly please



You like to avoid this question so as to promote your way of thinking as the only possible way of thinking .... Now kindly answer it why will you not acknowledge that the Church has a right to Her stance on this subject?

Of course the Church has a legal right to hold whatever stance it chooses.

I do have a suspicion that people here are taking a more extreme position than the Church has actually taken. I don't see how a homosexual couple adopting a child does violence to the child becomes a homosexual couple adopting a child does violence so extreme that no situation could be worse.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Because homosexual lifestyles and having two mommies or having two daddies is intrinsically wrong, disordered and it can be damaging to a child psychologically.

Sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse, mental abuse and neglect aren’t the only things that can damage a child growing up.

Being told you have you have a man for a mother and a women for a father will also.

Is that easy enough to understand?

I understand that. What I don't understand is how you seem to be saying that there is no situation where all the alternatives are worse.

 

[Benedicta00]

Of course the Church has a legal right to hold whatever stance it chooses.

I do have a suspicion that people here are taking a more extreme position than the Church has actually taken. I don't see how a homosexual couple adopting a child does violence to the child becomes a homosexual couple adopting a child does violence so extreme that no situation could be worse.

No one said it did cause violence, just screws them up in the head a little.

What bothers me with your criticism is the Church was asked to consider gay couples to adopt some wards of the state.

The Church said no, it can't do that and then the Church closed the adoption agency instead of being forced by the state to that. So now no kids have any chance of being placed anywhere.

Kids are going to be placed in foster homes that are no good regardless if the Church allows gay adoption or not but forcing the Church to go against her moral beliefs has caused the agency to close down.

Are liberal freedom fighters really about rights? Or control? Do they care about the kids, or their agenda? I’m not aware of any right a child has to a gay home, I’m not aware of any right a gay couple has to adopting a kid from a catholic charity.

It seems to me, if kids come first, leave the Church alone-- open up 50 gay adoptions if you want, do not make the Church do something that is against her beliefs.

Do gay rights activist have to have a monopoly all the adoption agencies? Or can they allow faith-based agencies to run it the way they want?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Just would like to add to this thread..

(Gen 2:18-25 NIV) The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." - Did God make another Man..

{24} For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. {25} The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Believe that the fundamental reason why homosexual activity is wrong is found in the creation account in which God brought man and woman together and then the bible comments: For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh (Gen 2:24). This passage of scripture is endorsed by Jesus in Mt 19:5 and Mk 10:8 and by Paul in Eph 5:31.

Those who have entered into a homosexual lifestyle can find help, hope and courage to exit from that lifestyle. believe in the right to choose to exit a gay lifestyle.

People can choose thier lifestyles. A persons orientation does not force him to carry out sodomy or buggery. Gays are not robots or creatures of animal instinct. A gay gene does not force a person to do anything, people are not preprogrammed like a robot. We have a choice, which includes celibacy. No one has died because they did not have sex!

Of course We do not condemn those who are in a homosexual lifestyle, we believe that Jesus came into the world not to condemn it but to save it, and he also called sinners to repentance and said "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick" (Luke 5:31-32). We also believe that there will be a day of judgment when each person will have to answer to their Creator, we should prepare for that day.

This issue on adopting children is the right decision the Church made to halt all adoptions. Would Jesus hand over a child to a Gay couple? This is the Catholic Church!

Believe that through Jesus Christ a homosexual can change his/her lifestyle - 1 Cor 6:11 But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God'.


​

Very well spoken!

And I am just amazed that anyone who is Catholic is arguing against Her.....so fragments, I am confused with your stand.

You prefer the idle secular freedoms over the freedom of the Church to proclaim morality, and not only proclaim it, BUT LIVE IT!

And for that I applaud the Church, but for the children, it goes to show how the gay agenda has messed up another good thing, but refuse to see it that way.

All the way home.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

No one said it did cause violence, just screws them up in the head a little.

No one?

 

[Benedicta00]

No one?

Who said that all gay homes are all violent? I don’t think they are any more or less violent than a heterosexual home. That’s the whole point.

You keep asking what harm it does, well I want to know what good is it going to do when a kid is NOT going to have a male for a dad and a female for a mom.

Abuse and violence is so not the point. I have known violent abusive lesbians, I heard of some violent abusive gay males. Heterosexuals don't have the market cornered on being controlling and abusive in a relationship you know... Gay ppl can certainly be this way to.

My issue with those in this thread who have a problem with the Church disallowing gay adoptions is you all act as if it known that kids would be better off in a gay home over a straight home and this is why the Church is committing some sort of travesty to them not allowing gays to adopt them.

No one has any guarantee that any home will be a good safe home. It all a gamble.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Who said that all gay homes are all violent? I don’t think they are any more or less violent than a heterosexual home. That’s the whole point.

You keep asking what harm it does, well I want to know what good is it going to do when a kid is NOT going to have a male for a dad and a female for a mom.

Abuse and violence is so not the point. I have known violent abusive lesbians, I heard of some violent abusive gay males. Heterosexuals don't have the market cornered on being controlling and abusive in a relationship you know... Gay ppl can certainly be this way to.

My issue with those in this thread who have a problem with the Church disallowing gay adoptions is you all act as if it known that kids would be better off in a gay home over a straight home and this is why the Church is committing some sort of travesty to them not allowing gays to adopt them.

No one has any guarantee that any home will be a good safe home. It all a gamble.

Let's sit back, take a deep breath, and start over. I think we are both to certain extent attacking strawmen.

I believe that the decision to exclude homosexual couples from the pool of potential adoptive parents is imprudent because there are not enough adoptive parents willing and able to adopt certain groups of kids. I am not saying anything whether homosexual couples are better or even as good as heterosexual couples. Rather, my assertion is that many homosexual couples can provide better care for children than the conditions children suffer in while waiting for adoption. Many have brought up reasons why this is not perfect, but perfection isn't possible at this point.

 

[marciadietrich]

No one said it did cause violence, just screws them up in the head a little.

Actually the quote from the Vatican website (around page 8 as I recall) said it does "violence" to the child to not have both parental roles present.

 

[Benedicta00]

Actually the quote from the Vatican website (around page 8 as I recall) said it does "violence" to the child to not have both parental roles present.

I don’t think the Vatican meant actual physical violence, like the way it’s being spun.

These days people think if it isn’t physical (sexual and neglect included) abuse then it’s not abuse.

Not true.

 

[Benedicta00]

Rather, my assertion is that many homosexual couples can provide better care for children than the conditions children suffer in while waiting for adoption.

I agree... like I said, I know good gay 'parents.' Their kids are loved, their fed, their clothed, educated, one little boy I know even went to CCD on Saturday mornings.

No doubt their needs are met but two mommies or two daddies is not good for kids even when all the other stuff is provided. It’s a disordered lifestyle that the Church condemns, so they very well can’t put a kid in a home life they condemn, right?

So why are we having this conversation?

The state is trying to make the Church put kids in gay homes, that is against the Church religious freedom, agreed? So now guess what? The kids have no home at all to be placed in.

Is that right? No- who's fault? Gay activist, certainly not the Church.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

I agree... like I said, I know good gay 'parents.' Their kids are loved, their fed, their clothed, educated, one little boy I know even went to CCD on Saturday mornings.

No doubt their needs are met but two mommies or two daddies is not good for kids even when all the other stuff is provided. It’s a disordered lifestyle that the Church condemns, so they very well can’t put a kid in a home life they condemn, right?

It depends on what our alternatives are.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

I don’t think the Vatican meant actual physical violence, like the way it’s being spun.

These days people think if it isn’t physical (sexual and neglect included) abuse then it’s not abuse.

Not true.

I've haven't used the term to mean only physical violence.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

The Vatican is using the term violence to mean spiritual and emotional violence, I believe, and indeed placing kids in the disordered environment that we are speaking of does spiritually and emotionally attack the children, I have no doubt about that.

Now, if we can improve the family and marriage in this society, maybe we could get these kids a loving, natural, christian families to provide a stable home for them. It certainly has been placed on my heart, and I will be discussing it with my future wife and will keep it at the forefront of my prayers, especially if we are unable to have children.

 

[Atlantians]

that's your opinion and you're entitled to it however there are many children needing loving homes and who are we to deny them that?

There is a large difference between a loving home and a good home.