Don't tell ME it isn't a deviancy! . . . Catholics only, please.

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Debi1967

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kimber1 said:
but one perhaps better done in private?
Maybe then posters should demonstrate publically what they want seen publically if they do not want it called into question .... I have every right to question this of any poster posting under the Catholic icon ....

Again it does not call into question whether someone is Christian, and someone can technically be catholic and not in line with the Holy See, So therefore it does not call into question catholicity, it calls into question allegiance to Rome .... You can effectively be a catholic that is not allied with Rome.... So therefore the question should be a simple one to answer
 
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Annabel Lee

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debiwebi said:
I want to ask you a question in all seriousness fragment and it is not I repeat not to question whether you are Christian or not, but if you disagree with the Church so much, and not just on this on many other issues that are Doctrinal and Dogmatic which require our assent then why are you Catholic?

Why is it your business?

Fragmentsofdreams, I wouldn't answer her question. She has neither the right or the authority to question whether you are a Catholic.

And btw, Debiwebi, Fragments is a he not a she.
 
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Annabel Lee

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debiwebi said:
I have every right to question this of any poster posting under the Catholic icon ....

No you do not.

And guess what? I do not have a Catholic icon and I debate and discuss in OBOB.
These icons mean nothing. They are silly little symbols that let you join a certain closed club.

They are meaningless.
 
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CaDan

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Debi1967

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CaDan said:
Didn't know I had to be one in order to question whether someone was allied with Rome or not so that I may establish their position properly? That should not be a public secret and I do not need ROBES to ask
 
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Annabel Lee

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debiwebi said:
I do believe it says at the top of this thread Catholics only please .... Now tell me are you Catholic Annabel Lee?

The Roman Inquisition is alive and well I see.

You can click on my profile and find out for yourself.


I guess then these icons do have significance do they not?

No they do not.

what club? You mean God's Church that is what you are calling a club?

Don't even think about twisting my words, you knew exactly what I meant.
Congregation forums, closed forums, Thou Shalt Not Enter This Area Without Proper Authorization forums.

I guess if somehow you now want to call the Church a secret Socety of some sort by all means go ahead ....

Oh now you're just making stuff up. Don't you dare put words in my mouth.

As far as fragment being a he and not a she then I am sorry for the discrepency on that hardly something to scold someone about ....

Just a friendly reminder :)
I do believe I sign all my posts DEBI and yet you have addressed me in the past when using my name only as Debbie which is not the way I spell it and never has been ..... I do not believe I have ever scolded you for it though, I have been mistaken believe it or not for a guy but hey ok no big deal ..... Anything else

I generally call people by their internet name, and don't recall ever calling you Debbie. My only sin would have been capitalizing the first letter in your name.

And when it comes to what I do and what I don't, I guess I am the judge as to what I can and cannot do, so please do not tell me I do not have the right to do anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And those people you interrogate have every right to tell you to mind your own business.

That last paragraph needed a few more !!!!!!!!
 
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Debi1967

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Besides I am not the one that set my ownself up for the question to be asked am I?

The Church Faithful are required to assent to Doctrines, Dogmas and Morals of the Church are they not?

The Church Faithful are allowed to ask questions yes, but only if it means that they are trying to aquire a better knowledge of something they themselves do not understand.... Not to be defiant or to dissent against the Church.... So therefore, if someone truly needs a better understanding of a Doctrine or Dogma and they see it one way then they may discuss it so that they may come to a better understanding .....

The Church allows that we will not always agree at times, but still requires even at these times our ASSENTION .... not dissention .... therefore, even if you do not understand or do not agree if you are part of the Lay Faithful you agree to assent to the Church always in these matters unless it goes against Sacred Scriptura, and Doctrine/ Dogma.....

Our Morals are established by that which we learn from the Church and the Lay Faithful are a representative of the Church, because they are the Body of Christ therefore Dissention proves to be an act against the Church or an act against the Will of God....

This therefore would make someone Schismatic within the Lay Faithful
 
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Debi1967

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No they do not.
Unlike you, My icon I wear means that I am Catholic ..... therefore it does not mean that I belong to a club because I was here posting long before I even knew OBOB existed and on top of that I hardly post in OBOB at all, there goes your secret club theory .... I bear my Icon because I am who I am ... I am not a sunday Catholic .... I am Catholic and it is part of my identity so therefore I bear it proudly ....

For your information not all of us think the same way that you do
 
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Annabel Lee

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debiwebi said:
Unlike you, My icon I wear means that I am Catholic ..... therefore it does not mean that I belong to a club because I was here posting long before I even knew OBOB existed and on top of that I hardly post in OBOB at all, there goes your secret club theory .... I bear my Icon because I am who I am ... I am not a sunday Catholic .... I am Catholic and it is part of my identity so therefore I bear it proudly ....

You misread and twisted everything I've said. WHEN did I say you were a Sunday Catholic? And what's this Secret Club stuff that you brought up?

Okay look debiwebi (checks exact spelling) this is not a Christian website, it is a website where Christians congregate and discuss.
This is not a church or a holy place.

Our Catholicism is in the real world, not here. I don't have to prove a thing to anyone in OBOB or elsewhere.

I'm a Catholic to my fellow parishioners, to my priest, to my family and to the different ministries I work in.
That's where it counts.

And no one at my church ever asks to see my icon.

And the sign said, "Everybody welcome.
Come in. Kneel down and pray."



For your information not all of us think the same way that you do

I don't expect everyone to.
 
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Debi1967

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Christian Forums -Uniting All Christians as One Body

HMMMMM

Not a Christian Website??????

Then we go here

http://www.christianforums.com/rules

forum rule 6 and since we are on the CHRISTIANS ONLY SIDE of the BOARD .... I wonder???????

Yes it does say everyone come in kneel down and pray and when it is time for the Eucharist, who then is allowed? All or some? And why?

God even said that amongst the sheep would be wolves.... In sheeps clothing

You are right this is not Church, but everything we do is supposed to be for God... Our lives and the way we live them are supposed to be for God not just sometimes or when we feel like it, or when it fits into our scope of things .... that is not how it works....

God expects obedience always not just sometimes....

There have been some in this thread so worried about what politics are and what society will think they have forgotten that we as Christians are no longer supposed to be part of this world... and that is why we must rely on God before everything even when it seems like it would be better not to ..... No one said that being a Christian was Peaches and Cream all the time, in fact I believe Christ said we would have to endure persecution for His name ........
 
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debiwebi said:
I am not questioning her Christianity I am not even questioning whether she is catholic .... I am questioning whether she is in line with the Holy See or not .... that is a different question altogether, one that has been brought one by her own postings in this thread ....

Again considering that this thread was moved from OBOB where she started posting to it, and where she posts on a continual basis, many times opposed to doctrinal teachings, and considering that one of the rules of OBOB is that the Catholics that post and DEBATE there be in line with the Holy See then it is a perfectly normal question for me to ask. Considering this thread is ONLY for Catholics, it is still a perfectly normal question for me to ask....

No. He disagrees with YOUR understanding of how doctrinal teachings should be applied That is not the same thing as disagreeing with doctrinal teachings.

If agreeing with your understanding of Catholic doctrine and its application (not necessarily this particular issue, but others as well) were a requirement for posting in OBOB or Catholics-only threads, half the priests I know wouldn't be allowed to post, and neither would my bishop :doh:

Whether you and others like it or not, there is some uncertainty about the application of Catholic doctrines to individual situations. There is debate and discussion within the hierarchy of the Catholic Church itself about how to properly apply doctrine, and very seldom do the any of the clergy discussing and exploring different points of view get excommunicated just for expressing alternative interpretations. So stop trying to e-excommunicate people who disagree with you and let people hash out the issue rationally.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Fragments is wrong. Does that somehow make this exploration of the issue invalid? Does that mean that he should be stifled in this place? Does that mean that he loses his Official Catholic Status?

Gahh.
 
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Miss Shelby

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fragmentsofdreams said:
A public message board is not an appropiate medium for complex and controversial topics.
Sometimes I really HATE communicating at all via this medium. It has it's benefits, but the depersonalization factor is what I don't like. That and it's so easy to misunderstand people and be misunderstood. I know for a fact that convos such as this would be different if we were all face to face rather than sitting behind our computers.

As for the icon thing. I have a Catholic icon, and I stand in agreement with Church teaching. But I fall so short every day of being what I desire to be, which is a good practicing Catholic. If anyone is going to have their Catholicity questioned in this thread, for one it should be me. I sure ain't worthy of having it. So I would just let the icon comments slide like water off a duck's back, were I you.

Michelle
 
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Miss Shelby said:
Sometimes I really HATE communicating at all via this medium. It has it's benefits, but the depersonalization factor is what I don't like. That and it's so easy to misunderstand people and be misunderstood. I know for a fact that convos such as this would be different if we were all face to face rather than sitting behind our computers.

As for the icon thing. I have a Catholic icon, and I stand in agreement with Church teaching. But I fall so short every day of being what I desire to be, which is a good practicing Catholic. If anyone is going to have their Catholicity questioned in this thread, for one it should be me. I sure ain't worthy of having it. So I would just let the icon comments slide like water off a duck's back, were I you.

Michelle

This post is pure class, Michelle. :groupray:
 
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Debi1967

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Let's say for the sake of argument that Fragments is wrong. Does that somehow make this exploration of the issue invalid? Does that mean that he should be stifled in this place? Does that mean that he loses his Official Catholic Status?
You ask valid questions .....


Since when am I trying to excommunicate anyone? Since when do I want to take away what I cannot as a Lay Person?

What makes the exploration of this issue invalid is that it is Doctrinal and Dogmatic, therefore it is not open to discussion anymore and if it were, it certainly would not be by the Lay Faithful to make the decision would it? So you want to explore what? How to establish a different way to dissent from Dogma and get away with it?
 
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Debi1967

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Sometimes I really HATE communicating at all via this medium. It has it's benefits, but the depersonalization factor is what I don't like. That and it's so easy to misunderstand people and be misunderstood. I know for a fact that convos such as this would be different if we were all face to face rather than sitting behind our computers.
Very true because never once have I questioned whether FragmentofDreams was Catholic or Christian, that some people keeps alluding when they post to me even though I have made that clear in almost every post that I posted. I simply wanted to know if Fragment was allied with Rome or not? This way I would have a better handle on how to approach a situation. We take it naturally that someone that bears the icon is allied with Rome but there are some that are not and it is the only icon that they can wear. They are Catholic just not in line with the Holy See, or do not recognize his authority.


It is hard in this medium unless you directly ask a person and then you get jumped on becuse everyone calls your motives into play all the time, when your motives may not exactly be what they assume them to be....


As for the icon thing. I have a Catholic icon, and I stand in agreement with Church teaching. But I fall so short every day of being what I desire to be, which is a good practicing Catholic. If anyone is going to have their Catholicity questioned in this thread, for one it should be me. I sure ain't worthy of having it. So I would just let the icon comments slide like water off a duck's back, were I you.

Michelle
Michelle you are a good Catholic from what I have seen with a good heart to go along with it, and we all fall short of the Glory of God.... none of us are perfect..... I personally think you are a great person and are someone that I have looked to many times, especially when I was new to the Faith, for inspiration so .... you can't be that bad ;)
 
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holyorders

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This thread is kinda scary.


Here is my take;

We have a lot of kids in bad shape in foster care and they need the help of a healthy family.

Homosexuality is sin. Children should not have to go from being "burned to the stake" for body and mind(bad social service programs) into a den of wolves for the soul (sinful same-sex "unions"). The answer is to have the children be given what they need for ALL of their bodies, minds, and souls (the great Catholic "AND"). The answer is to encourage heterosexual parents to beat homosexual "unions" to the punch. I have never understood why the Church has never promoted the lay faithful not to adopt more often- it would increase the size of Catholic families as well as provide possible avenues for vocations.

Gay "unions" want to adopt maybe for good reasons but at the same time there is a cultural agenda also. Gay "unions" cannot reproduce themselves they have to promote their ideology in the media just to keep their survival going. They possibly would adopt to "enlist" young children into becoming part of their ideology campaign. Like I said above, the answer is not in arguing with the gays about this issue.........its beating them to the punch.
 
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