Don't have children for the wrong reasons!

[Rescued One]

What do you know about raising kids? Seriously. What does your spouse know?

Unless you both came from awesome families, you probably won't raise awesome families. At least one of you will resort to the parenting methods his or her parents used.

• We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. ...

W.H. Auden

• We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. ...

 

[Halbhh]

What do you know about raising kids? Seriously. What does your spouse know?

Unless you both came from awesome families, you probably won't raise awesome families. At least one of you will resort to the parenting methods his or her parents used.

• We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. ...

W.H. Auden

• We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. ...

True that.

But....well, it comes to mind that if only really great parents would have kids, that would be (well, miraculous, first of all) likely to reduce the world's population rather quickly as we'd not be anywhere near replacing each generation, even if those great parents had 6-8 kids in each family.

I'm clearly of course thinking to be a 'great parent' would mean not merely to avoid widely recognized as criminal behaviours like child abuses, or neglect, that are legally recognized to be over the line, but also all the abuse that isn't technically against the law, and is simply a lesser form of those more obviously serious levels of abuse, and then finally also less than great will include the (pervasive) various dozens of forms of emotionally inadequate parenting, and even such forms of inadequate parenting like failure to read books to kids, failure to teach some good life principles, and so on.

But wonderfully, we all have a Good Parent we can turn to, and He's our only real hope even if we were raised by 'great' human parents....

 

[SavedByGrace3]

If we had rejected having children because of our bad parents, we would have missed out on 4 of the greatest kids ever born. My parents were alcoholics and my mother died when I was 13 of a rotted liver. My wife's family had their problems and her dad died when she was 10. And we were not the best parents either. But they ended up better than we did, and have families of their own now.
I would hesitate to brings kids into this sick and warped culture with famine, economic depression, and war in our imminent future. But then the prime directive is "be fruitful and multiply."
Trust God and He will make a way!

 

[Rescued One]

so far i see 2 objections to my suggestion of godly parenting. i expected that.

 

[Rescued One]

True that.

But....well, it comes to mind that if only really great parents would have kids, that would be (well, miraculous, first of all) likely to reduce the world's population rather quickly as we'd not be anywhere near replacing each generation, even if those great parents had 6-8 kids in each family.

I'm clearly of course thinking to be a 'great parent' would mean not merely to avoid widely recognized as criminal behaviours like child abuses, or neglect, that are legally recognized to be over the line, but also all the abuse that isn't technically against the law, and is simply a lesser form of those more obviously serious levels of abuse, and then finally also less than great will include the (pervasive) various dozens of forms of emotionally inadequate parenting, and even such forms of inadequate parenting like failure to read books to kids, failure to teach some good life principles, and so on.

But wonderfully, we all have a Good Parent we can turn to, and He's our only real hope even if we were raised by 'great' human parents....

Not all adults are children of God.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Unless you both came from awesome families, you probably won't raise awesome families. At least one of you will resort to the parenting methods his or her parents used.

Maybe. Maybe not. While it is true that it is easy to slip into the default position of raising kids the way we were raised. Something else is also true. We decide what kind of person we want to be both from whom we want to be like but also whom we decide we don't want to be like. Many people make conscious decisions to parent differently that they were parented and can do so with intential effort.

 

[Halbhh]

so far i see 2 objections to my suggestion of godly parenting. i expected that.

As there were only 2 posts above this response, it seems you may mean also my post where I wrote to you "True that." -- meaning that what you had written was true and correct.

Perhaps you aren't 'seeing' there, if you missed that.

I've learned from my own mistakes it's easy to expect arguing, and then see it even when it's not even happening....

We need to all pray the prayer Christ taught us to pray in Matthew 6 for each day. We stumble when we just rely on ourselves. We need to continually look to Him, rely on Him.

 

[Halbhh]

What do you know about raising kids? Seriously. What does your spouse know?

Unless you both came from awesome families, you probably won't raise awesome families. At least one of you will resort to the parenting methods his or her parents used.

• We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. ...

W.H. Auden

• We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. ...

Even though I responded already to say "True that!" -- that your post is entirely true....

I think it might help to expand on that -- more about what you wrote -- in another, different way past how I already replied talking about how imperfect parents are the norm, where the really bad parenting is only the most visible or 'tip of the iceberg' of a vastly larger amount of less than really good parenting...where before I was simply pointing out examples of common ways people are doing poorly at parenting including even when they think they are doing ok...

Instead, here, I want to talk further about the truth in what you posted.

People reasonably think they can avoid the mistakes of their own parents....but it's far less easy to do that than people imagine or think, even when they give it some careful consideration and effort.

So, many people set out to try to do much better than their own parents....

But fail to a large extent.

Because the real mistakes their own parents made are not in the surface details such as whether they say "I love you" enough, or use 'time outs' in a good way instead of literally spanking a 2 yr old (which the child doesn't even slightly understand except as a shocking attack without any understandable cause...)...until they find themselves doing something much like that (if delayed), or just shift it from physical hitting to verbal or such....

So many parents think they are going to do much better than their own parents....
...but what happens is that they just make new mistakes, and often the new mistake is really just a new version of the old mistake, with a superficial change in detail.... Or at times some choose to do alternative common errors such as just merely doing the opposite of their parents for instance: such as the commonplace modern mistake of having no rules at all vs the overcontrolling micro rules of their own parents in a past generation...

Meanwhile, the real poor parenting is more subtle, and pretty often it's about emotional wrongs (subtle emotional things in how their own parents related poorly to them...) -- not about the superficial rules, but instead what is underneath -- about key things like not being loving, or not being a good example, or not teaching/guiding their children, or not paying attention to what a child can understand at a given age/moment in time/the particular child, or not treasuring the child as the wonderful unique person they are...and on and on...


Generally, new parents simply repeat the key mistake of their own parents, even while they think they are avoiding that by making what are really just superficial changes -- because they don't realize the deeper thing that was wrong.

Something one would only realize through intensive effort to uncover the subtle bad ways of living/relating one unconsciously absorbed from the pervious generation. Or that might be reduced a lot if one would for instance read the proverbs and teachings of the bible and really apply them in their lives, creating a more profound and real change in how one is.

 

[Rescued One]

Even though I responded already to say "True that!" -- that your post is entirely true....

I apologize. Let me say, I am frustrated when I notice that parents who claim to be Christians don't separate anger and harshness from discipline. Let me correct myself from using the word "awesome" in the OP. I didn't mean perfect. No one but God is perfect. However, some families are able to raise children who love the Lord, and who don't follow the normal sinful ways of the world.
With the current chaos across America, I'm especially concerned for families who have their children in public schools. Social media isn't helping.

I think it might help to expand on that -- more about what you wrote -- in another, different way past how I already replied talking about how imperfect parents are the norm, where the really bad parenting is only the most visible or 'tip of the iceberg' of a vastly larger amount of less than really good parenting...where before I was simply pointing out examples of common ways people are doing poorly at parenting including even when they think they are doing ok...

Instead, here, I want to talk further about the truth in what you posted.

People reasonably think they can avoid the mistakes of their own parents....but it's far less easy to do that than people imagine or think, even when they give it some careful consideration and effort.

So, many people set out to try to do much better than their own parents....

But fail to a large extent.

Because the real mistakes their own parents made are not in the surface details such as whether they say "I love you" enough, or use 'time outs' in a good way instead of literally spanking a 2 yr old (which the child doesn't even slightly understand except as a shocking attack without any understandable cause...)...until they find themselves doing something much like that (if delayed), or just shift it from physical hitting to verbal or such....

So many parents think they are going to do much better than their own parents....
...but what happens is that they just make new mistakes, and often the new mistake is really just a new version of the old mistake, with a superficial change in detail.... Or at times some choose to do alternative common errors such as just merely doing the opposite of their parents for instance: such as the commonplace modern mistake of having no rules at all vs the overcontrolling micro rules of their own parents in a past generation...

Meanwhile, the real poor parenting is more subtle, and pretty often it's about emotional wrongs (subtle emotional things in how their own parents related poorly to them...) -- not about the superficial rules, but instead what is underneath -- about key things like not being loving, or not being a good example, or not teaching/guiding their children, or not paying attention to what a child can understand at a given age/moment in time/the particular child, or not treasuring the child as the wonderful unique person they are...and on and on...

Wonderful and insightful!

Generally, new parents simply repeat the key mistake of their own parents, even while they think they are avoiding that by making what are really just superficial changes -- because they don't realize the deeper thing that was wrong.

But new parents are all parents --- even sermons don't teach the parents and who's going to seek professional help before their children are teenagers?

Something one would only realize through intensive effort to uncover the subtle bad ways of living/relating one unconsciously absorbed from the pervious generation. Or that might be reduced a lot if one would for instance read the proverbs and teachings of the bible and really apply them in their lives, creating a more profound and real change in how one is.

Winner! That's something people should learn before marriage. People might attend church regularly, but have no desire to change themselves at all.

 

[Halbhh]

I apologize. Let me say, I am frustrated when I notice that parents who claim to be Christians don't separate anger and harshness from discipline. Let me correct myself from using the word "awesome" in the OP. I didn't mean perfect. No one but God is perfect. However, some families are able to raise children who love the Lord, and who don't follow the normal sinful ways of the world.
With the current chaos across America, I'm especially concerned for families who have their children in public schools. Social media isn't helping.

Wonderful and insightful!


But new parents are all parents --- even sermons don't teach the parents and who's going to seek professional help before their children are teenagers?


Winner! That's something people should learn before marriage. People might attend church regularly, but have no desire to change themselves at all.

I do think it would help for pastors to do some sermons each year or a short series (2 sermons?) every 2 years, about good parenting, to aid young parents while their kids are in the Sunday School.

 

[Rescued One]

I do think it would help for pastors to do some sermons each year or a short series (2 sermons?) every 2 years, about good parenting, to aid young parents while their kids are in the Sunday School.

I think it ought to be more often, or a sermon about obedience to God and a willingness to conform a person's life to God's will. Which denominations don't care? People who are 29 or 30 should be teaching their children of various ages how to bear fruit in all areas of their lives. Are you a pastor? Are members of the congregation listening to sermons or are they just sitting there with half-hearted interest?

 

[Larniavc]

My son will be 8 in a week and I've always been very conscious about not emulating my parents and how they raised me. My dad wad emotionally labile, would smack me and be quite arbitrary in his treatment of me. He was very shouty. My mum was in a marriage that she was unhappy with and that was clear to me from a young age.

So when I raise my son I'm consistent. Extremely so. I also never shout or smack him. I will talk in a firm voice and because when he was little we would count down from ten if he was obstinate he know knows that when I count I mean business.

The important thing is he's really well adjusted, doing well at school, popular with his peers, kind and curious. I'm a psychotherapist so I'm careful to teach him about emotions, what worry is and how it's good to talk about your feelings. When he cries I'm careful to not dismiss his distress and empathise with hi,. I tell him being hurt isn't good so it's okay to cry.

He's full of cuddles and sarcasm who questions everything.

Giving my boy the psychological tools to cope with the world has been an intensely challenging delight/nightmare.

 

[Halbhh]

I think it ought to be more often, or a sermon about obedience to God and a willingness to conform a person's life to God's will. Which denominations don't care? People who are 29 or 30 should be teaching their children of various ages how to bear fruit in all areas of their lives. Are you a pastor? Are members of the congregation listening to sermons or are they just sitting there with half-hearted interest?

No, I'm not a pastor, but we do have a new pastor, who seems a pretty good one who does help us learn very practical needed things, and it will be interesting to see if that comes up.

 

[TheLastGeek]

What do you know about raising kids? Seriously. What does your spouse know?

Unless you both came from awesome families, you probably won't raise awesome families. At least one of you will resort to the parenting methods his or her parents used.

• We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. ...

W.H. Auden

• We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. ...

There are countless resources out there for parents-to-be. We aren't living in the 1950's where the only guide you had for parenting was looking at your own family history. There are parenting classes, parenting support groups, parenting magazines, entire healthcare professions based on caring for babies and children.

There's also the fact that you have your own mind, your own free will, and your own ability to make choices and decisions. Raising kids is honestly not that difficult in terms of how to not screw your kid up. Parenting is hard in terms of the demands it makes upon your ability to be selfless and self sacrificing. It will test and stretch and fill and break your heart in many ways. But the technical "how to"? Feed them, clothe them, teach them, protect them, play with them, love them.

If you want children, start thinking now of the kind of parent you want to be, and the kind of home and family you want to have. Then make rules for how to establish that when the kids arrive. And if you need help, reach out and get it.

 

[Rescued One]

There are countless resources out there for parents-to-be. We aren't living in the 1950's where the only guide you had for parenting was looking at your own family history. There are parenting classes, parenting support groups, parenting magazines, entire healthcare professions based on caring for babies and children.

I am well aware of resources. I also know not al people are aware or interested in all those great resources or able to isolated their children from bad influences. Even restraining orders aren't successful against all predators.

There's also the fact that you have your own mind, your own free will, and your own ability to make choices and decisions. Raising kids is honestly not that difficult in terms of how to not screw your kid up. Parenting is hard in terms of the demands it makes upon your ability to be selfless and self sacrificing. It will test and stretch and fill and break your heart in many ways. But the technical "how to"? Feed them, clothe them, teach them, protect them, play with them, love them.

How do you protect them and keep predators and unsavory characters away? Are you speaking of living in a Utopia with a thousand rules for everyone? There are no successful utopias. And bad things happen to good kids. Do you think Amish raise perfect children who grow up to be perfect parents?

If you want children, start thinking now of the kind of parent you want to be, and the kind of home and family you want to have. Then make rules for how to establish that when the kids arrive. And if you need help, reach out and get it.

Rules? Are you and your spouse clones who have cloned parents and siblings? Have you ever heard of reaching out and not receiving help?

 

[Rescued One]

this ^ seems pessimistic
we have raised an awesome child who volunteers, has a 4.0 in school, sews, reads, writes stories, does crafts, paints, cooks, etc
I was a sahm so I take credit for some of teen's interests since I read stories, did fingerpainting, crafts, taught cooking, etc when kid was young
now I take teen to one of my writing groups

Perhaps what you call pessimism is reality. And perhaps you're judgmental of moms who have to earn money.

 

[TheLastGeek]

I am well aware of resources. I also know not al people are aware or interested in all those great resources or able to isolated their children from bad influences. Even restraining orders aren't successful against all predators.

How do you protect them and keep predators and unsavory characters away? Are you speaking of living in a Utopia with a thousand rules for everyone? There are no successful utopias. And bad things happen to good kids. Do you think Amish raise perfect children who grow up to be perfect parents?

Rules? Are you and your spouse clones who have cloned parents and siblings? Have you ever heard of reaching out and not receiving help?

There will always be crappy parents in the world. We can't do anything about them. We can only control our own households, and maybe hope to influence others in a positive way through interactions we have with them.

Do you genuinely not know how to protect a child from predators? I'm not being facetious, I'm seriously curious. That said, it's only rational to know no one can ever shield a child from every potential harm or threat.

What does having household/family rules have to do with cloning?

Your OP was about a person and their spouse being able to raise children with/without resorting to the examples that their own parents set. Now you seem to sort of be all over the place. I'm a bit confused as to just what this thread is supposed to be about.

 

[Rescued One]

There will always be crappy parents in the world. We can't do anything about them. We can only control our own households, and maybe hope to influence others in a positive way through interactions we have with them.

Do you genuinely not know how to protect a child from predators? I'm not being facetious, I'm seriously curious. That said, it's only rational to know no one can ever shield a child from every potential harm or threat.

What does having household/family rules have to do with cloning?

Your OP was about a person and their spouse being able to raise children with/without resorting to the examples that their own parents set. Now you seem to sort of be all over the place. I'm a bit confused as to just what this thread is supposed to be about.

The thread started as a suggestion. Then it evolved and I got the impression that some people think raising kids is a piece of cake if you come up with the right rules. I'm not attacking Christian parenting. I'm concerned about parents assuming that if you do x,y, and z, it will be a cinch or a guarantee of a good outcome. Do spouses always agree on parental decisions? What do aunts, uncles, and grandparents tell your children? What does your divorced spouse tell the children when you aren't around? What about teachers and friends of your children/ Social media?

Ideas? Concerns?

 

[Rescued One]

What does having household/family rules have to do with cloning?

Do your spouse and relatives must have the same values you want to teach? Was your spouse raised by godly parents?

Your OP was about a person and their spouse being able to raise children with/without resorting to the examples that their own parents set.

Now you seem to sort of be all over the place. I'm a bit confused as to just what this thread is supposed to be about.

Many people say, "Well I turned out all right, didn't I?" How many couples know their future spouse's views about everything?

When I ask questions please don't assume I'm criticizing.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The thread started as a suggestion. Then it evolved and I got the impression that some people think raising kids is a piece of cake if you come up with the right rules. I'm not attacking Christian parenting. I'm concerned about parents assuming that if you do x,y, and z, it will be a cinch or a guarantee of a good outcome. Do spouses always agree on parental decisions? What do aunts, uncles, and grandparents tell your children? What does your divorced spouse tell the children when you aren't around? What about teachers and friends of your children/ Social media?

Ideas? Concerns?

Proverbs 22:6 KJV
6. Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Had 4 of them. Grandchildren and great grandchildren. Do no abdicate your responsibility to anyone else be it family, church, or government.