Does your denomination preach Christ-crucified?

[JesusLovesOurLady]

Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer."
But Our Lord said:
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Matthew 16:24 DRV

What's more Saint Paul says:
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church" -Colossians 1:24 DRV
And:
"I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service." -Romans 12:1 DRV This refers specifically to redemptive (AKA "Offering it up") in which we unite our own little sufferings with Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, that He may mediate between The Father and us.

We Catholics, except for people who reached a really high degree of holiness, do not actively seek suffering, but when it arises, we take it as an opportunity to unite with Our Lord on the cross. The belief that "Christ suffered so that we don't have to," quite frankly means that Protestants don't preach Christ crucified as Saint Paul commands us to, The Lord's sacrifice on the cross becomes just something that happened almost 2000 years ago, not something that one's entire life revolves around.

So tell me Protestants how is the cross relevant for you? And how do you sense out of suffering? What do you do when suffering arises?

 

[brightlights]

So tell me Protestants how is the cross relevant for you? And how do you sense out of suffering? What do you do when suffering arises?

The cross means that I will never have to suffer as a punishment for sins. All of my suffering, thanks to Jesus, is meant by God and used by God to refine my character and conform me to the image of Christ. Suffering is now sent into my life by God as an expression of his love rather than his wrath.

Suffering is, in part, a result of sin. But it is also actively sent into my life by God in order to awaken me to spiritual realities and goad me toward repentance. It is also used of God to burn away the dross of remaining sin in my life and purify me.

When suffering arises I attempt to thank God in the midst of it and to bear it with as much grace and obedience as I can. I attempt to use suffering as an opportunity to grow in grace which is readily available in times of suffering.

 

[gym_class_hero]

"We Catholics, except for people who reached a really high degree of holiness, do not actively seek suffering, but when it arises, we take it as an opportunity to unite with Our Lord on the cross.."
He's not on the cross anymore.

 

[Adstar]

Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer."
But Our Lord said:
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Matthew 16:24 DRV

What's more Saint Paul says:
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church" -Colossians 1:24 DRV
And:
"I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service." -Romans 12:1 DRV This refers specifically to redemptive (AKA "Offering it up") in which we unite our own little sufferings with Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, that He may mediate between The Father and us.

We Catholics, except for people who reached a really high degree of holiness, do not actively seek suffering, but when it arises, we take it as an opportunity to unite with Our Lord on the cross. The belief that "Christ suffered so that we don't have to," quite frankly means that Protestants don't preach Christ crucified as Saint Paul commands us to, The Lord's sacrifice on the cross becomes just something that happened almost 2000 years ago, not something that one's entire life revolves around.

So tell me Protestants how is the cross relevant for you? And how do you sense out of suffering? What do you do when suffering arises?

""Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer.""

This suffering is pointing to eternal suffering in the Lake of fire.. It is not pointing to suffering in this world.. For Christians Jesus death was atonement for the sins of all those who Believe Jesus and believe that His atonement pays the penalty for their sins..

You basic foundational mistake is to totally misinterpret Christians to be saying that Jesus takes away suffering on this world in this life.. from this false foundation you have built a strawman that does not in truth exist..

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer."
But Our Lord said:
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Matthew 16:24 DRV

What's more Saint Paul says:
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church" -Colossians 1:24 DRV
And:
"I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service." -Romans 12:1 DRV This refers specifically to redemptive (AKA "Offering it up") in which we unite our own little sufferings with Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, that He may mediate between The Father and us.

We Catholics, except for people who reached a really high degree of holiness, do not actively seek suffering, but when it arises, we take it as an opportunity to unite with Our Lord on the cross. The belief that "Christ suffered so that we don't have to," quite frankly means that Protestants don't preach Christ crucified as Saint Paul commands us to, The Lord's sacrifice on the cross becomes just something that happened almost 2000 years ago, not something that one's entire life revolves around.

So tell me Protestants how is the cross relevant for you? And how do you sense out of suffering? What do you do when suffering arises?

I'm not sure where you heard the part that says we don't suffer or took it out of context. Usually some protestant and pentecostal churches and non you hear them say though that we were destined to suffer his fate. Maybe someone meant to say that and what they mean is we were supposed to go through what he did for us for our sins or maybe was really a protestant person saying no more suffering and such idk. But yeah generally churches agree still suffering on Earth and pain and such. Bible says endure hardness as a good soldier, and many are the affliction so the righteous and so on. Just that we can escape eternal damnation becuase of his death and resurrection.

For me JESUS died on the cross to justify us. He can't utilize an unclean thing so through his death we are able to be justified through baptism and then adopted through the holy ghost.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

The cross means that I will never have to suffer as a punishment for sins. All of my suffering, thanks to Jesus, is meant by God and used by God to refine my character and conform me to the image of Christ.

Suffering is, in part, a result of sin. But it is also actively sent into my life by God in order to awaken me to spiritual realities and goad me toward repentance. It is also used of God to burn away the dross of remaining sin in my life and purify me.

When suffering arises I attempt to thank God in the midst of it and to bear it with as much grace and obedience as I can. I attempt to use suffering as an opportunity to grow in grace which is readily available in times of suffering.

I agree with that statement in part (Although I may be misunderstanding it a bit), but there is one problem, we still live in a fallen world. God doesn't send suffering it's always present, it's all around us. Even if one were to be completely free from sin one still have to bear the sin of a fallen world. In fact we Catholics believe that the more holy one becomes the more sensitive one suffers, this is because the process of sanctification involves conforming oneself to reality and reality hurts. Why would Jesus pay the debt for sin and yet still leave us in this fallen world in which we are still suffering for the punishment of Original Sin? Unless he meant what He said: Take up the cross and follow Him.

I apologize if this response is a bit murky, I'll try to explain more tomorrow if the Lord allows it.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I agree with that statement in part (Although I may be misunderstanding it a bit), but there is one problem, we still live in a fallen world. God doesn't send suffering it's always present, it's all around us. Even if one were to be completely free from sin one still have to bear the sin of a fallen world. In fact we Catholics believe that the more holy one becomes the more sensitive one suffers, this is because the process of sanctification involves conforming oneself to reality and reality hurts. Why would Jesus pay the debt for sin and yet still leave us in this fallen world in which we are still suffering for the punishment of Original Sin? Unless he meant what He said: Take up the cross and follow Him.

I apologize if this response is a bit murky, I'll try to explain more tomorrow if the Lord allows it.

Ironically we believe the same thing at least in that aspect we pentecostals/apostolics. Then again we don't consider ourselves protestants so that could be why. We believe the more higher you get in GOd the more the enemy attacks, and that pain is a thing in this walk. I realize now this was mainly for I guess baptist/non denominational/ methodist. now like the mainstream christian faiths. It ask for any denomination but really your intro really addresses those more so.

 

[Albion]

Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer."....We Catholics, except for people who reached a really high degree of holiness, do not actively seek suffering, but when it arises, we take it as an opportunity to unite with Our Lord on the cross. The belief that "Christ suffered so that we don't have to," quite frankly means that Protestants don't preach Christ crucified as Saint Paul commands us to....

Quite frankly, this whole premise--and the quotation you cited several times--comes as news to me. I've never heard it spoken in Protestant circles myself, so I'm guessing that you picked it up from some atypical source. It certainly does not accord with standard Protestant theology!

As several other posters have noted, the suffering that is obviated by Christ's sacrifice refers to suffering in eternity, not in this life. But that's clearly not what you were explaining in the OP.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

""Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer.""

This suppering is pointing to eternal suffering in the Lake of fire.. It is not pointing to suffering in this world.. For Christians Jesus death was atonement for the sins of all those who Believe Jesus and believe that His atonement pays the penalty for their sins..

You basic foundational mistake is to totally misinterpret Christians to be saying that Jesus takes away suffering on this world in this life.. from this false foundation you have built a strawman that coes not in truth exist..

Yes I've heard one Protestant say this in the context of an argument against purgatory,
But I've heard many Protestants say this, and as far as I can remember the context was, or at the very least seemed to be in the context of suffering in general. It could be that they just weren't clear when they were talking about suffering.
However my arguments about Protestantism's lack of emphasis on the crucifixion and the problems that cause still stands.

 

[Albion]

Yes I've heard one Protestant say this in the context of an argument against purgatory,
But I've heard many Protestants say this, and as far as I can remember the context was, or at the very least seemed to be in the context of suffering in general. It could be that they just weren't clear when they were talking about suffering.

I agree that there must have been some misunderstanding involved there.

However my arguments about Protestantism's lack of emphasis on the crucifixion and the problems that cause still stands.

On that account, I think you are also misinformed. If anything, Protestantism makes MORE out of the significance of the crucifixion than do the Catholic churches.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer."
But Our Lord said:
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Matthew 16:24 DRV

What's more Saint Paul says:
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church" -Colossians 1:24 DRV
And:
"I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service." -Romans 12:1 DRV This refers specifically to redemptive (AKA "Offering it up") in which we unite our own little sufferings with Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, that He may mediate between The Father and us.

We Catholics, except for people who reached a really high degree of holiness, do not actively seek suffering, but when it arises, we take it as an opportunity to unite with Our Lord on the cross. The belief that "Christ suffered so that we don't have to," quite frankly means that Protestants don't preach Christ crucified as Saint Paul commands us to, The Lord's sacrifice on the cross becomes just something that happened almost 2000 years ago, not something that one's entire life revolves around.

So tell me Protestants how is the cross relevant for you? And how do you sense out of suffering? What do you do when suffering arises?

Wait, maybe I made the wrong implications, I wasn't intending to imply that Protestants flee from suffering, (although there are some issues in the way that Protestants approach suffering) I have heard Protestants say "Jesus suffered so that we don't have to" but I may have misunderstood the context in which they were saying it. My main concern is Our Lords command to take up the cross and follow Him and the fact that Protestant reject the practice of uniting their sufferings with the suffering of Jesus on the Cross.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

On that account, I think you are also misinformed. If anything, Protestantism makes MORE out of the significance of the crucifixion than do the Catholic churches.

Maybe more than liberal Catholics (please don't get me started on that) but I'm almost certain that I'm not mistaken when I've heard Protestants object to Catholics emphasizing Jesus crucified and insisting that the cross be bear to emphasize His Resurrection. Like I said before, for Protestants the Jesus' crucifixion is something that happened in the past not something that one's life revolves around.

 

[Albion]

Maybe more than liberal Catholics (please don't get me started on that) but I'm almost certain that I'm not mistaken when I've heard Protestants object to Catholics emphasizing Jesus crucified and insisting that the cross be bear to emphasize His Resurrection.

Perhaps, but I have to say that the focus seems to have changed from what it was in the Original Post (OP).

Like I said before, for Protestants the Jesus' crucifixion is something that happened in the past not something that one's life revolves around.

As for the "bear his cross" idea, that may simply reflect stylistic differences between the churches rather than a real doctrinal difference.

Where there IS a genuine difference is that Protestants believe that Christ's sacrifice made possible our salvation through Faith in him. By contrast, Catholics believe that Christ's sacrifice made our salvation possible through Faith and--IF we perform enough of them--the good works we do as believers. But if that is what you mean by "for Protestants the Jesus' crucifixion is something that happened in the past not something that one's life revolves around" then I'd agree to the general idea if not to the wording.

 

[FireDragon76]

I agree with that statement in part (Although I may be misunderstanding it a bit), but there is one problem, we still live in a fallen world. God doesn't send suffering it's always present, it's all around us. Even if one were to be completely free from sin one still have to bear the sin of a fallen world. In fact we Catholics believe that the more holy one becomes the more sensitive one suffers, this is because the process of sanctification involves conforming oneself to reality and reality hurts. Why would Jesus pay the debt for sin and yet still leave us in this fallen world in which we are still suffering for the punishment of Original Sin? Unless he meant what He said: Take up the cross and follow Him.

To be honest I have never heard any Protestant at any church I have been to say that Jesus suffered so that we don't have to.

 

[Adstar]

Yes I've heard one Protestant say this in the context of an argument against purgatory,
But I've heard many Protestants say this, and as far as I can remember the context was, or at the very least seemed to be in the context of suffering in general. It could be that they just weren't clear when they were talking about suffering.
However my arguments about Protestantism's lack of emphasis on the crucifixion and the problems that cause still stands.

There is no one protestant denomination or church,, there is no protestant pope or patriarch.. You will get different views on theology depending on the individual you are speaking too and what protestant denomination they belong to.. There are a minority of protestants who believe in a doctrine that is called Prosperity Doctrine which basically states that the more one is living within the will of God the more God will bless them with material blessings, good health, wealth and marital happiness.. Of course this is not really supported by scripture.. But many young people want to believe in this doctrine that i call cargo cult churchianity ... But sooner or later as they experience suffering in this life they come to realize this doctrine is false.. This is why you will find most of the churches that support this doctrine have a predominantly younger membership..

As for the focus or lack there of on the actual crucifixion.. Protestants in my experience do not deny the crucifixion. They simply do not spend as long focusing on it as catholics do.. To the average protestant the resurrection of Jesus from the dead gets far more focus then the actual process of his execution.. The Gospel means literally The Good News.. So focusing on the good news about Jesus and overcoming death and securing atonement for us is the focus for most protestants.. So His resurrection and assention into heaven get more focus because it is the happy news... Yes Jesus went through a horrendous death but focusing on that leads to an almost defeatist death cult mentality where people spend their time mourning the suffering and death and not celebrating the victory over death..

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer."
But Our Lord said:
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Matthew 16:24 DRV

What's more Saint Paul says:
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church" -Colossians 1:24 DRV
And:
"I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service." -Romans 12:1 DRV This refers specifically to redemptive (AKA "Offering it up") in which we unite our own little sufferings with Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, that He may mediate between The Father and us.

We Catholics, except for people who reached a really high degree of holiness, do not actively seek suffering, but when it arises, we take it as an opportunity to unite with Our Lord on the cross. The belief that "Christ suffered so that we don't have to," quite frankly means that Protestants don't preach Christ crucified as Saint Paul commands us to, The Lord's sacrifice on the cross becomes just something that happened almost 2000 years ago, not something that one's entire life revolves around.

So tell me Protestants how is the cross relevant for you? And how do you sense out of suffering? What do you do when suffering arises?

Hello

Im pentecostal. This is the first time ive ever heard that saying, wher is it from?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Yeah you will get varying views on this since there are so many denominations. And even among those people can be split on views.

Taking up the cross to me just means we will suffer because of His name. Like for example my views on LGBT means I draw alot of hate from the outside world. And sadly from some christians too. So that is suffering. Though there is also suffering because sin exists. For example having a disability, health issue...even death itself. So to me thats carrying the cross. Going through life despite suffering knowing that God is good and your sins are forgiven.

Which for some christians is why they leave christianity. They feel being a christian means there should not be suffering/trials because they think of God as a genie who just makes life perfect. One thing I differ on from my outside family (not parents) is they are catholic and have crosses with Christ still on it. Which we are taught is not good. Well more so we are taught a empty cross reminds us of His resurrection and our hope and faith in Him. Though owning a cross is usually up to the person. Its not required or anything.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Yes I've heard one Protestant say this in the context of an argument against purgatory,
But I've heard many Protestants say this, and as far as I can remember the context was, or at the very least seemed to be in the context of suffering in general. It could be that they just weren't clear when they were talking about suffering.
However my arguments about Protestantism's lack of emphasis on the crucifixion and the problems that cause still stands.

Possibly you are just seeking to find fault with protestants?

Can you tell me.

The believer sins in the flesh/ body( rom8:10)

Your body/ flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.(1cor15:50)
So why would your earthly body need to go to purgatory to be purged of sin so it may enter where it Is not going?

 

[Ken Rank]

Hello, I'm a Catholic (As my username implies) and I thought like to discuss my biggest issue with Protestantism, it's the phrase "Jesus suffered and died on the cross so that we don't have to suffer."
But Our Lord said:
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Matthew 16:24 DRV

What's more Saint Paul says:
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church" -Colossians 1:24 DRV
And:
"I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service." -Romans 12:1 DRV This refers specifically to redemptive (AKA "Offering it up") in which we unite our own little sufferings with Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, that He may mediate between The Father and us.

We Catholics, except for people who reached a really high degree of holiness, do not actively seek suffering, but when it arises, we take it as an opportunity to unite with Our Lord on the cross. The belief that "Christ suffered so that we don't have to," quite frankly means that Protestants don't preach Christ crucified as Saint Paul commands us to, The Lord's sacrifice on the cross becomes just something that happened almost 2000 years ago, not something that one's entire life revolves around.

So tell me Protestants how is the cross relevant for you? And how do you sense out of suffering? What do you do when suffering arises?

This is one area where I think all forms of Christianity seem to miss the point. Preaching Christ Crucified does nothing unless you also preach/teach what his crucifixion addressed and how that affects us. And, while we are to "die to ourselves daily" and be "buried with him in baptism," we are also expected to pick UP the cross and move on... beginning our journey of discipleship that includes learning how to come to an understanding in relation to God's expectations for us each day. What I am saying is... we were never supposed to come to the cross and pitch a tent and remain there.... the point of the cross was to reverse the curse of sin and death thus when we come to the cross... we are to pick it up and walk out our lives using messiah as the model to follow.

 

[Basil the Great]

Many years ago, when I was in college, a Catholic guy, who was in the process of coverting to Judaism, told me that Catholicism emphasizes the Crucifixion and Protestantism emphasizes the Resurrection. I have also read that Orthodoxy emphasizes the Resurrection more than Catholicism. I understand the OP's point very well, as I have studied much about Catholic doctrine. To the OP, it is probably true that very few Protestants would look at their own suffering as a way to be closer to Jesus and his suffering. I see nothing wrong with the Catholic understanding of suffering and if such brings one closer to God, than that is good. However, I believe that the most important aspect of our Christian walk is that we show love and compassion to the less fortunate and not how we look at our own suffering.