Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

Phil W said:

Wrong Ananias. (Acts 22:16)

Click to expand...

Saw the name and missed the verse.

Please answer honestly, though you are forgiven, and saved, you have admitted to me earlier that you still repent of sin... daily.

Am I wrong?

Phil W said:

Jesus said..."Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)
He also said that no man can serve two masters and will love the one and hate the other.
In effect, Jesus says that servants of sin hate God.


Peter did, (Acts 2:38), and so did Ananias, (Acts 22:16)


But our baptism puts us on that saving cross! (Rom 6:3-6)
And the result is named in Romans 6:7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
That is where His sanctifying blood is applied to us, while we are on that cross...immersed into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.


I had faith that my sins were remitted when I obeyed Peter's Acts 2:38 commands.


What constitutes "conversion"?


Where is baptism mentioned in the Mosaic Law?
That is the "works" Paul refuted...circumcision, dietary laws etc.
Repentance from sin, baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, and obedience to God are not "works" for salvation, they are obedience to the Lord and to His apostles.
If you think disobedience manifests faith, you are entirely wrong.

Click to expand...

Baptism is a food card. It gives access to drinking of spiritual water and eating of spiritual food. It is given on confessing that serving mammon for treasure that rusts is futile, and only serving God for treasure that does not perish is worthwhile.

Not all who were baptised into the people of God, who became children, who were not dogs like the syro-Phoenician woman, benefited from being fed. God was not pleased and their bones littered the wilderness. The feeding of bread from heaven was supposed to cause believers to make the last decision, to abandon what is most precious to them, and depend only on God, as Abraham and Joshua did after being continuously fed.

Phil W said:

Jesus said..."Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)
He also said that no man can serve two masters and will love the one and hate the other.
In effect, Jesus says that servants of sin hate God.


Peter did, (Acts 2:38), and so did Ananias, (Acts 22:16)


But our baptism puts us on that saving cross! (Rom 6:3-6)
And the result is named in Romans 6:7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
That is where His sanctifying blood is applied to us, while we are on that cross...immersed into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.


I had faith that my sins were remitted when I obeyed Peter's Acts 2:38 commands.


What constitutes "conversion"?


Where is baptism mentioned in the Mosaic Law?
That is the "works" Paul refuted...circumcision, dietary laws etc.
Repentance from sin, baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, and obedience to God are not "works" for salvation, they are obedience to the Lord and to His apostles.
If you think disobedience manifests faith, you are entirely wrong.

Click to expand...

Your view is not orthodox Christianity.

Phil W said:

Don't sinners reject Christ?
Preferring the things of this world above Him?
That's idolatry.


But they happen at the same time, at the point where Jesus blood is in contact with what will be His newest vessel. (Heb 10:10, 14)


He is talking about our manifestation of Christ on earth now, loving our neighbor as we love ourself.


I'm glad my sanctification and salvation aren't "positional".
I am glad they are actual!
You are going to have to supply scripture for your beliefs.

Click to expand...

This is Pelagian doctrine, not orthodox Reformed.

Oscarr said:

This is Pelagian doctrine, not orthodox Reformed.

Click to expand...

I read Pealgian writings on Grace that were amazing, then I read where he got duplicitous.

I’m going to just say it... Sinless doctrine rarely leads anywhere good, and by rarely, I mean never!

That old Isaiah 14:14 pops up!

Wordkeeper said:

Baptism is a food card. It gives access to drinking of spiritual water and eating of spiritual food. It is given on confessing that serving mammon for treasure that rusts is futile, and only serving God for treasure that does not perish is worthwhile.

Not all who were baptised into the people of God, who became children, who were not dogs like the syro-Phoenician woman, benefited from being fed. God was not pleased and their bones littered the wilderness. The feeding of bread from heaven was supposed to cause believers to make the last decision, to abandon what is most precious to them, and depend only on God, as Abraham and Joshua did after being continuously fed.

Click to expand...

Water baptism is nothing more than a ceremonial public acknowledgment that one has received Christ as Saviour. It has no intrinsic spiritual or mystical effect on a believer.

Jesus is the living bread from heaven. He is the Person who has saved us, and He is the One who through the indwelling Holy Spirit causes us to grow in grace and our sanctification.

Grip Docility said:

I read Pealgian writings on Grace that were amazing, then I read where he got duplicitous.

I’m going to just say it... Sinless doctrine rarely leads anywhere good, and by rarely, I mean never!

That old Isaiah 14:14 pops up!

Click to expand...

Yes. Jesus is our Justification, righteousness and sanctification. It is all pointing to Jesus, and we are His workmanship, but we don't just sit on our acres and leave it all to Him. We are to work at bringing our bodies under subjection and this help of the Holy Spirit..

Grip Docility said:

I confess I fail God by wanting to walk a path of selfish financial gain, while knowing I must prepare for the physical gospel ministry I sense Him calling me to.

I confess that I am enraged at those that add requirements of flesh to the Gospel.

I confess I struggle with feelings of hatred towards my ex wife, who estranged me from my children for 6 years, though I sent much money to ensure their well being.

I confess I am a man of lustful desires, since the age of 11, and though it has improved with age and walk in Jesus Christ, I know that my flesh objectifies and desires the curves of women.

I confess I have failed my family financially time and time again by not being a good steward with the riches God has provided me over time.

I confess I can get proud and self centered.

I confess I am no thing without Jesus Christ and would be damned without His Mercy, Grace and Love.

I Confess that I have many thorns, because without them, I would be tempted by Pride in Righteous flesh and am blessed to be driven to my knees daily, to hear that His Grace is sufficient.

Click to expand...

I confess that I've struggled with depression my entire life which at times has seriously and dangerously plagued me with a propensity to want to destroy myself.

I confess that my struggles with mental health has had some serious consequences on my son. I was physically abusive to him when he was little. Yet I'm grateful for the mercy God has shown in that those in the social welfare system have consistently ruled in my favor.

I confess that I worry (probably) too much about finances and that I tend to be a little too over indulgent of the wants of both myself and my son.

My son is developmentally disabled and I confess my greatest fear is what would happen to him if I die.

I confess that I could have spent more time praying for my former husband and less time angry at him. He committed suicide a little over two years ago and against all the squabbling over his belief that I obstructed his efforts to be a better father; the #1 thing I wanted for him (just as I've prayed for my son) is redemption. There's no evidence that ever happened though and to this day; I have hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that people I knew in this life are likely in hell. My mother included.

I confess to having utter distain for my biological brother; who is a pedophile who has racked up at least 9 victims that I'm aware of. I am one of them.

I confess to still having a fair amount of rage; and having been in the military, dealt with a war and having been taught how to kill people - still scares me.

I confess that because of the sexual abuse; I struggle with what is suppose to be proper, appropriate, and healthy understanding and attitude for me regarding my own sexuality. And after 30 plus years of asking God where I'm suppose to be with all this; I got the biggest "crush" on Jesus. In 30 plus years; that's something I've never "gotten out of" my soul. At this point, I've come to the conclusion based on what I know of psychology and developmental imprinting - that's probably never going to go away in this life.

I confess to having a certain amount of distain for those who lead my country and there is a part of me that still regrets having joined the military. There are "PTSD loops" of memories stuck in my brain that I can not get rid of. And I confess to periodically getting stuck in despair over these things.

We all have our crosses too bear.

And lastly, I confess to often scratching my head over why God would actually want to redeem me. I frequently feel just like i did when I was little - invisible.

Oscarr said:

Water baptism is nothing more than a ceremonial public acknowledgment that one has received Christ as Saviour. It has no intrinsic spiritual or mystical effect on a believer.

Jesus is the living bread from heaven. He is the Person who has saved us, and He is the One who through the indwelling Holy Spirit causes us to grow in grace and our sanctification.

Click to expand...

You are talking about the fake, Mickey Mouse Baptism.

This Baptism is "actionable".


Warnings From Israel’s History

1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

The Righterzpen said:

I confess that I've struggled with depression my entire life which at times has seriously and dangerously plagued me with a propensity to want to destroy myself.

I confess that my struggles with mental health has had some serious consequences on my son. I was physically abusive to him when he was little. Yet I'm grateful for the mercy God has shown in that those in the social welfare system have consistently ruled in my favor.

I confess that I worry (probably) too much about finances and that I tend to be a little too over indulgent of the wants of both myself and my son.

My son is developmentally disabled and I confess my greatest fear is what would happen to him if I die.

I confess that I could have spent more time praying for my former husband and less time angry at him. He committed suicide a little over two years ago and against all the squabbling over his belief that I obstructed his efforts to be a better father; the #1 thing I wanted for him (just as I've prayed for my son) is redemption. There's no evidence that ever happened though and to this day; I have hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that people I knew in this life are likely in hell. My mother included.

I confess to having utter distain for my biological brother; who is a pedophile who has racked up at least 9 victims that I'm aware of. I am one of them.

I confess to still having a fair amount of rage; and having been in the military, dealt with a war and having been taught how to kill people - still scares me.

I confess that because of the sexual abuse; I struggle with what is suppose to be proper, appropriate, and healthy understanding and attitude for me regarding my own sexuality. And after 30 plus years of asking God where I'm suppose to be with all this; I got the biggest "crush" on Jesus. In 30 plus years; that's something I've never "gotten out of" my soul. At this point, I've come to the conclusion based on what I know of psychology and developmental imprinting - that's probably never going to go away in this life.

I confess to having a certain amount of distain for those who lead my country and there is a part of me that still regrets having joined the military. There are "PTSD loops" of memories stuck in my brain that I can not get rid of. And I confess to periodically getting stuck in despair over these things.

We all have our crosses too bear.

And lastly, I confess to often scratching my head over why God would actually want to redeem me. I frequently feel just like i did when I was little - invisible.

Click to expand...

I hit Love, because that’s what God fills my heart with towards you!

I profess that as a fellow soldier of Christ, I stand with you, back to back and will rend any servant of Satan that would dare trample the courage in Jesus Christ that it took you to bear your honest soul!

I thank Jesus for your sincere devotion to Him, and your Faith that clutches your promised Helmet Of Salvation!

All Love and Prayers for you, Soldier and Bond Servant Of Him, in Him and for Him... one day Glory to Glory and forever Clutched by His infinite Right Hand.... wonderful Sibling in Him!

James 5:16 ; 1 Peter 4:8

Grip Docility said:

I hit Love, because that’s what God fills my heart with towards you!

I profess that as a fellow soldier of Christ, I stand with you, back to back and will rend any servant of Satan that would dare trample the courage in Jesus Christ that it took you to bear your honest soul!

I thank Jesus for your sincere devotion to Him, and your Faith that clutches your promised Helmet Of Salvation!

All Love and Prayers for you, Soldier and Bond Servant Of Him, in Him and for Him... one day Glory to Glory and forever Clutched by His infinite Right Hand.... wonderful Sibling in Him!

Click to expand...

Thank you for your prayers.

If you would please pray for my son. He's 17 and has a social security hearing in August. I'm praying he gets approved as a disabled adult because then he qualifies for Medicare. I want to take him to the Mayo Clinic in MN ASAP. His epilepsy mediation runs a serious risk of causing liver failure. His liver enzymes are out of whack and he's getting sicker.

He is a believer. Please pray that if he does die - he goes in comfort.

The Righterzpen said:

Thank you for your prayers.

If you would please pray for my son. He's 17 and has a social security hearing in August. I'm praying he gets approved as a disabled adult because then he qualifies for Medicare. I want to take him to the Mayo Clinic in MN ASAP. His epilepsy mediation runs a serious risk of causing liver failure. His liver enzymes are out of whack and he's getting sicker.

He is a believer. Please pray that if he does die - he goes in comfort.

Click to expand...

My oldest Son is 17! This prayer is now in my heart and soul, where prayer does not cease! I turn this over to Christ within me, that even when I’m not consciously praying for your son and all you have spoken, that my soul continues to petition, by Christ, on your and His Behalf!

Please pray for my Son, as well... and that I may serve the Lord as He is calling me.

All Love to you, in Him, my wonderful Sibling in Jesus!

Grip Docility said:

My oldest Son is 17! This prayer is now in my heart and soul, where prayer does not cease! I turn this over to Christ within me, that even when I’m not consciously praying for your son and all you have spoken, that my soul continues to petition, by Christ, on your and His Behalf!

Please pray for my Son, as well... and that I may serve the Lord as He is calling me.

All Love to you, in Him, my wonderful Sibling in Jesus!

Click to expand...

I'll pray for your son too. It's hard being 17. And may what ever it is that God is calling you too; that you have clarity. Sometimes the hardest part about following God's will, is knowing what it is!

The two greatest errors in our churches today are legalism and antinomianism.
Legalism demands Justification by perfect compliance to the Law
Antinomianism say that because we are Justified we don't have to worry about the Law at all but can live just as we please and sin as much as we like.
Both are shortcuts to hell.

Justification is by faith in Christ alone and not by the Law.
But those who are genuinely Justified, love Christ and His Law.
Therefore Sanctification is by the Law and not by faith alone. Sanctification requires obedience to the Law but knows that it will never be perfect obedience to it

Those who hold to the notion that we are sanctified by faith because we are in "the Spirit" is antinomianism in another form and is another pathway to hell.

CharismaticLady said:

So you don't believe one that starts out following Christ can sin again and lose their salvation? If they sin again, does it just mean they weren't saved in the first place? So, how can one be assured of their salvation?

Click to expand...

Hi God draws a person to trust in Jesus . . . the way He wants the person to do this. And our Apostle Paul says, "we who first trusted in Christ", in Ephesians 1:12. So, if we have trusted in Jesus for all He desires to do with us, this is included in our assurance.

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

So, if we have trusted in Jesus, the way God has had us do this, now each of us is "one spirit with Him" > in His own Holy Spirit of His own love. This has changed us, to say the least . . . to be personally sharing with Jesus, by being "one spirit with Him." And this union is in His power almighty; I would say this is assuring, how almighty power of union with Jesus keeps us from getting away from God, and has us growing in how God's love and character is.

So, this is not a do-it-yourself thing, but with God > "the things which are impossible with men are possible with God," Jesus Himself says, in Luke 18:27. God does it right, with us who have trusted in Jesus. The thanks and credit and glory is all to Him > Romans 6:17.

But yes we can still fail and sin, and so we need correction which changes us to be God's way, more and more, and to obey Him. Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees how our Heavenly Father corrects His children. So, in case anyone is failing, submit to God and seek Him to deeply correct you in your character so you do better with Him, and not fumbling and struggling on your own.

Because He loves us, He corrects us. And God doesn't fail.

So, in case someone claims to get saved, but then goes the other way and stays that way, with no real obvious correction > God knows what is really going on (2 Timothy 3:13). I understand how people can do a copy-cat thing that a church tells them to do. But a person at first, also, could get in trouble, and don't give up on the person.

But as I learn and grow, I find the true assurance is not that I said a prayer and decided I am sure to go to Heaven. But there is submitting to God for real correction; this success of God in us is assurance that He loves us and is doing His work to prepare us to share all eternity with Him and Jesus His Son as our Groom and with one another.

Also, our assurance > "that we may have boldness in the day of judgment", our Apostle John does say > is how we have been perfected in God's love >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

So, God's love living in us > Romans 5:5 > is included in our Biblical assurance, and how this love cures our nature to be perfected in love is included in our assurance. We have heard, "actions speak louder than words". So, our assurance is not only what we have gotten ourselves to choose and pray, but our assurance includes God's action in us conforming us to the image of Jesus, and with this how He has us loving any and all people in His all-loving love (Matthew 5:46).

This is basic; I have offered various scriptures. We have trusted in Jesus, and therefore we are actively seeking Him for real correction of His love's perfection, and God is proving Himself in us by doing this with us. I gave scriptures. I don't need any excuses or explanations for what is otherwise. It is clear that it is not enough just to say a prayer but not submit to God (James 4:7, Colossians 3:15). Also, God does not fail with ones who trust in Him; so He does not get started with someone and then fail to keep the person. So, both "sides" of that argument can both be not by the Bible, I would say.

So, if we have trusted in Christ, yes we are guaranteed Heaven, and we are guaranteed how our Father now corrects us to become like Jesus, and this includes how He has perfected us in His love, as 1 John 4:17-18 guarantees us. So, in case we have sin problems, trust God to correct this, instead of only having debates about if we should label ourselves saved or not. Simply keep seeking God for how He is able, since our problems are proof of how we are not >

"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7)

Our sin trouble is meant to convince us that we are beyond hope. I would not trust how Satan would want to convince us; but trust God who is the Good Judge to know what is really true about us and what He pleases to do > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

Oscarr said:

Because there are conscious sins which we can repent of, and unconscious sins we are not aware of which we don't repent of, we are living with a mixture of repented and unrepented sins every day. By your assertion, no one can saved, including yourself, because this is the state of every believer. Sin is the transgression of the Law, and every sin, large or small, carries the same penalty - death. Even just one evil thought or unloving action is transgression of the Law that carries the penalty of death.

So, if you are basing your eternal future on your perfect obedience to every command, which you have to do if that is the foundation of your Christian life, then I have bad news for you.

You are sunk!

Click to expand...

Amen! The truth hurts, but he really needs to hear it.

CharismaticLady said:

I don't know why you think I believe in having the cart before the horse. Struggle with sin is before Christ. But when you cry out to Jesus to save you from your sin, He takes the desire for sin away, and gives you the power of the Holy Spirit to start your walk in holiness. You think I'm saying we must be holy in order to receive the Holy Spirit. I'm not. But, on the other hand, after all your sins are forgiven and you have been given the Holy Spirit, we must keep advancing, and not fall back into sin, for without holiness, no man shall see God.

Click to expand...

CharismaticLady said:

The law of the Spirit is fulfilling the righteous requirements of the OT law AND MORE. There is no struggle as in Romans 7. Those who find themselves struggling with the flesh do not have the Holy Spirit in them, and thus, do not belong to Christ.

Click to expand...

That holiness isn’t ours.