Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[CharismaticLady]

No new heart judges from the stone.

The cornerstone?

 

[ViaCrucis]

See what I mean? And you want me to trust you with answering your questions. But 1 John 3:18-23 is a real test.

I want you to be honest with yourself. But you are fleeing from doing that. And I suspect the reason why you are fleeing from doing that is because, if you had to take a hard long look at yourself, your entire foundation of white-washed sepulchers would come crumbling down. And you would have to face yourself honestly.

It is the devil who would have you believe yourself spiritual, wise, and righteous, for this is the same snake who in the beginning said, "You will be as gods". And so desiring to be a god men always want their own way, their own righteousness, they want the broad way which leads to destruction. The broad way by their own strength, their own efforts, their own power. They want to stand and say, "God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get."

Fall to your knees and pray, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Grip Docility]

The cornerstone?

The Teachers Of Law, with their drawn stones and hatred for the company He kept, rejected Him.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm not judging you. I'm telling you we all need to judge ourselves. And I gave you a perfectly sound test from the apostle John. I also told you. you don't need to tell me the results, as you wanted me to tell you.

I have no problem admitting I'm a sinner, a hypocrite, and a wretch. I know my sin. I'm not the one claiming to be something I'm not.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Grip Docility]

I have no problem admitting I'm a sinner, a hypocrite, and a wretch. I know my sin. I'm not the one claiming to be something I'm not.

-CryptoLutheran

Count me there with you, Brother.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm not judging you. I'm telling you we all need to judge ourselves. And I gave you a perfectly sound test from the apostle John. I also told you. you don't need to tell me the results, as you wanted me to tell you.

Do you want me to confess my sins?

I have not loved the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my strength, with all my soul, and with all my mind. I have not loved my neighbor as myself. I have envied my neighbor, I have been jealous of my neighbor. I have not been humble, but have sought praise for myself. To this, I confess to my God and Savior, I am truly sorry, and seek true repentance. And may God in His kindness push me and encourage me to seek out those who I have wronged, that I might make amends. May my words not be empty, but may God strengthen my bones to action.

This I freely confess, in the name of my Lord Jesus Christ, trusting in the forgiveness and mercy of God.

To Jesus Christ, my only hope and good, all glory and praise now and forever.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[com7fy8]

Do you believe as Martin Luther whose statement evolved into the OSAS doctrine, or not? Can someone be assured of salvation if they willfully sin like stated with no repentance? Are they still the "elect"?

Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees how God loves His children and therefore He corrects us. This does not mean just whipping us, but how God changes our nature so we share with Him in His own holiness and His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness".

So, I don't believe a child of God goes all the way, uncorrected, back to Satan and his kingdom. But we have trusted in Jesus, and therefore Jesus succeeds in us.

If we can trust Him to get us to Heaven, unconditionally guaranteed, we can trust His correction is unconditionally guaranteed to succeed. So, if someone claims to be saved and messes up, I pray and expect God to succeed with him or her, the way Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees, and how God's word is guaranteed to do all He means, with us > Isaiah 55:11.

But yes I can fail, and yes I can keep trusting how God alone is able to really correct me in my character, so I am more like Jesus and loving the way Jesus desires for us to love any and all people.

When people waste Gospel time pointing fingers at other Christians, they are committing the greatest sin of all... not seeking out the lost!

I have seen how I myself can welcome the opportunity to look down on someone else. But this is not loving, not being ready with forgiveness like how Jesus on the cross prayed,

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:36)

Jesus had hope for such people, in prayer, right while they were hating and torturing and murdering Jesus who is God's own Son.

And God's word guarantees how we can succeed in helping people who are in sin trouble >

"Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." (Galatians 6:1)

With God, this means, we have the ministerial ability to restore a person who is overtaken in "any" trespass. To me, this means you and I with God can help any person, at all; we do not have to have experience with that sin, but we can help someone with "any" sin problem.

And why might we need to hear this? Because deep down inside of us, our reason for looking down on someone could be that we do not realize how God is able to use us to help that person in trouble. And so we fear it. Deeply, we might be fearing how we ourselves can fail; so we try to deflect our attention from our own ability to fail, to condemning someone else.

But, instead of fearing in some sneaky way, and self-righteously condemning someone else > love "hopes all things" > in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

"First of all", our Apostle Paul does say, in 1 Timothy 2:1-4, pray "for" ones in need. And have compassion >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

From our own failure, we can understand how others can give in to sin. And from how God's grace almighty succeeds in us, we can feed on this to have hope for how God is able to change any person out of any sin trouble.

All through each day, I keep needing to be reminded of and corrected to this.

So, the glory is to God.

 

[Phil W]

Do we have eternal life now? If so, then why do we die?

Yes, we do have eternal life NOW. (john 10:28)
The future just doesn't require this body.

The answer is that the Christian life is lived in the now and not yet. St. Paul says that we are, present tense, seated with Christ in heavenly places--and yet we are right here, on earth, in these mortal bodies.

I hope you don't think Paul was wrong.
Paul wrote..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
"...yet not I..."

We are seated with Christ on account of God's grace, with life everlasting in Christ; for that which is of Christ shall never pass away, but that which is perishing shall perish.

"With everlasting life in Christ"!
You answered your own question.

And so we look forward to the resurrection of the body on the last day, when this mortal shall put on immortality, and this corruptible puts on the incorruptible. For this age is perishing, and all the things of this age shall perish, but all which is reserved in Christ shall be saved. "For if the Spirit of He who raised Christ from the dead dwells also in you, then He who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies." (Romans 8:11)

It would be a mistake to equate "life" with the condition of the vessel.

We are in the now and not yet. At once saint and sinner. Both perishing on account of the flesh, and everlasting on account of Christ. Mortal in the present body, and immortal as it pertains to our hope in the resurrection.
-CryptoLutheran

"My" sinner was killed on the cross when I was baptized into Christ's death. (Rom 6:6-7)
After which I was "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)
This new life is in Christ, wherein is no sin.

 

[Phil W]

Proverbs 26:12

If my conversion was anything but my choice to please God you might be right.
But all the "credit" belongs to Jesus, who loved me and died for me.
That was worth my obedience to Father.

 

[Phil W]

Romans 1:30-32

Isn't that directed at those who disobey God?

 

[The Righterzpen]

You claim that law always existed, transgression too, and therefore there was always evil.

But Paul says that there was a time when law never existed and there was therefore no transgression:

And when was that time "law never existed" that Paul speaks of? Yet Paul goes on to explain that death still reigned even from Adam to Moses.

And before this; when did death enter the creation? And why did it enter? (Hint: Adam disobeyed.)

Then look at Noah's flood. Why does God say He will flood the earth? Was it not because of the wickedness of man?

When God told Adam not to eat the fruit; what was that, if it was not a command? Does not "the law" contain "commands"?

So by your statement here you make God unjust because clearly God has punished people and if "there's no law"; how are they to know they've transgressed and under what precedence has God to judge them?

(Hint: "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven....")

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

(This is the express revelation of "the Law" in creation and this was "from the creation of the world"; which was made known to them before the actual written testimony came into being.)

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

So getting back to Paul's statement in Romans 5:13. When was there sin in the world with no law? Before God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This is why he says "death reigned from Adam to Moses".

This just proves my contention that when you step into the labyrinth of the lexicographer, you become a lost cause...

Thus appears to me that you are actually the one who is lost.

Paul said the law counted for nothing, because the Gentiles, those not under law, were having the same benefits as the Jews who had the law. He then proves it by saying that Abraham didn't have the law, yet he could be justified, considered a member of God's family, just by believing.

Again, you misquote the Scripture. Paul does not say gentiles have the same "benefits" as the Jew; He says that when they by nature obey the written commands of the law, not having knowledge of those written commands; they are a law unto themselves.

Why is this? Because the law is written on the consciousness of man having been created in God's image. This is what the above quoted verses in Romans 1 is about.

Believing has no moral content, it's just an act that put him on God's side. In fact an immoral act like trying to sacrifice his son also put him on God's side, and that act was supposed to have perfected his faith!

Abraham was commanded by God to sacrifice his son.
Genesis 22:2

Hebrews 11
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

That figure being God sacrificing HIS only begotten son.

Break any commandment, it doesn't matter, just be on God's side. You don't think you know better than God, do you?

.... but apparently you think you know better than God!

Disobeying the law does have consequence because "the wages of sin is death" and "it is appointed unto man one to die and after this the judgement".

 

[The Righterzpen]

Well said friend

Thanks be to God for the time, energy and propensity to study He has given me.

He says "You're welcome" LOL!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The law of the Spirit is fulfilling the righteous requirements of the OT law AND MORE. There is no struggle as in Romans 7. Those who find themselves struggling with the flesh do not have the Holy Spirit in them, and thus, do not belong to Christ.

So, what you are saying that in order to be saved and filled with the Spirit one has to be sinlessly perfect? How do you explain, "By grace are we saved through faith, not of ourselves, but it is the gift of God; not of works lest any person should boast?" And the Scripture is very clear that the person who is saved by grace is also filled with the Spirit, and that any second blessing of subsequent filling of the Spirit is not supported by Scripture at all.

So, it is not sinless perfection that saves us, but God's grace through faith, and that sanctification is not Justification, and the former is a continuing process which will be perfected only when we meet the Lord in glory.

So, if you believe that a person who does not struggle with the flesh, as in Romans 7, then you are believing in a different gospel and a different Christ who condemns imperfect people who put their faith and trust in the real Christ, who has not come into the world to condemn it, but to save sinners.

 

[Grip Docility]

Do you want me to confess my sins?

I have not loved the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my strength, with all my soul, and with all my mind. I have not loved my neighbor as myself. I have envied my neighbor, I have been jealous of my neighbor. I have not been humble, but have sought praise for myself. To this, I confess to my God and Savior, I am truly sorry, and seek true repentance. And may God in His kindness push me and encourage me to seek out those who I have wronged, that I might make amends. May my words not be empty, but may God strengthen my bones to action.

This I freely confess, in the name of my Lord Jesus Christ, trusting in the forgiveness and mercy of God.

To Jesus Christ, my only hope and good, all glory and praise now and forever.

-CryptoLutheran

I confess I fail God by wanting to walk a path of selfish financial gain, while knowing I must prepare for the physical gospel ministry I sense Him calling me to.

I confess that I am enraged at those that add requirements of flesh to the Gospel.

I confess I struggle with feelings of hatred towards my ex wife, who estranged me from my children for 6 years, though I sent much money to ensure their well being.

I confess I am a man of lustful desires, since the age of 11, and though it has improved with age and walk in Jesus Christ, I know that my flesh objectifies and desires the curves of women.

I confess I have failed my family financially time and time again by not being a good steward with the riches God has provided me over time.

I confess I can get proud and self centered.

I confess I am no thing without Jesus Christ and would be damned without His Mercy, Grace and Love.

I Confess that I have many thorns, because without them, I would be tempted by Pride in Righteous flesh and am blessed to be driven to my knees daily, to hear that His Grace is sufficient.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There it is. That’s the inner rending of one another I was waiting for: Sinners declaring other sinners more sinful than themselves. A house divided will fail.

This is not the Gospel.

The Gospel is hope for the hopeless. Declaration of Who God dwells within and Who He doesn’t is not a wise phrase to turn.

No. It is not the true gospel. One can be a Charismatic and yet not be saved. It is not some Charismatic experience that saves a person, but the grace of God through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross. When a person receives Christ by faith, they are immediately baptised with the Spirit, without having to have some type of Charismatic sensory experience. If a person is basing their salvation on a sensory experience, then the devil is always there to give them one to deceive them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thanks be to God, the reborn are not of this world, so OUR percentage doesn't fit in THEIR math.

We are all sinners, saved by faith, and our sanctification is not yet perfect, although we work on it as much as we can.

 

[Phil W]

Disobeying the law does have consequence because "the wages of sin is death" and "it is appointed unto man one to die and after this the judgement".

Paul writes..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; (death), and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
The judgement for my past sins was death, and I was paid my wage when I was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:6)
Thanks be to God for then raising me with Christ to walk in newness of life, as a new creature, to walk in the light instead of in the darkness, and in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

 

[Grip Docility]

Isn't that directed at those who disobey God?

A paraphrased Parable...

A man once had a debt of 1,000,000,000 dollars. He was finally taken before the King and told he must pay the debt or be locked up until he could pay it off.

This man fell before the King and pleaded that he had a wife and kids, and that he knew he had failed and could never pay the debt off.

The King was moved to compassion and forgave the man’s debt.

The man was so grateful, for years he would give money to those in need and speak of the Great mercy of the King.

In time, the man became shrewd in business and obtained immense wealth.

One of his clients cost him 250,000 dollars and drove him towards a place of need, again.

He drove to the place the client worked, pulled a gun on him, pistol whipped him and said he would harm his family if he didn’t come up with the 250,000 dollars.

A servant of the King saw this, recognized the man and eventually informed the King.

The next day, the man was again drug before the King...

This time, despite all the man’s pleading the King had him locked away for good.

 

[Phil W]

I confess I fail God by wanting to walk a path of selfish financial gain, while knowing I must prepare for the physical gospel ministry I sense Him calling me to.

I confess that I am enraged at those that add requirements of flesh to the Gospel.

I confess I struggle with feelings of hatred towards my ex wife, who estranged me from my children for 6 years, though I sent much money to ensure their well being.

I confess I am a man of lustful desires, since the age of 11, and though it has improved with age and walk in Jesus Christ, I know that my flesh objectifies and desires the curves of women.

I confess I have failed my family financially time and time again by not being a good steward with the riches God has provided me over time.

I confess I can get proud and self centered.

I confess I am no thing without Jesus Christ and would be damned without His Mercy, Grace and Love.

I Confess that I have many thorns, because without them, I would be tempted by Pride in Righteous flesh and am blessed to be driven to my knees daily, to hear that His Grace is sufficient.

A real repentance from sin will insure you won't do these things ever again. (2 Cor 7:10..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.")

 

[Phil W]

No. It is not the true gospel. One can be a Charismatic and yet not be saved. It is not some Charismatic experience that saves a person, but the grace of God through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross. When a person receives Christ by faith, they are immediately baptised with the Spirit, without having to have some type of Charismatic sensory experience. If a person is basing their salvation on a sensory experience, then the devil is always there to give them one to deceive them.

How come that didn't work for the twelve at Ephesus?
Or the Samaritans?
Or, for that matter, Paul?
In fact, only Cornelius was filled with the Holy Ghost before having his sins remitted by baptism in water.