Does time pass for spirits?

Mannabar

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Do spirits experience the passage of time, or do they merely feel a sensation like time passing, for example, if they suffer? ("When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, you think it's two hours.")

If time does pass for them, is it in their spirit realm or only if they interact with the physical? Is there a connection or relationship between spiritual time and physical time, or do they merely meet occasionally?

What about God? I always thought God's view of time must be like an author's view of his story; the characters perceive the state of their world at one moment in time, "here and now," but to the author, everything, everywhere, every time is "here and now." Is there more to it than that? Am I missing something?
 

FutureAndAHope

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The Bible speaks of the time after death, in the same, or similar, way as our current time, people eat, live in cities, etc. Those in hell, can talk, see, etc. We are the same/similar type of being, just in a different environment.
 
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Do spirits experience the passage of time, or do they merely feel a sensation like time passing,...?
Read Daniel 10
In vv.12-14, the archangel told Daniel,
“Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand,
and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard;​
and I have come because of your words.
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days;
and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me,
for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.​
Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days,
for the vision refers to many days yet to come...”​

It took the archangel 21 days to arrive at his destination because he was waylaid by a "prince/king" of Persia (another spiritual being) and it took a while for backup (Michael) to arrive. All three were affected by time while in our realm. We do not know how that works for angels once they exit the natural universe.
What about God?
We find no such limitation for God except those that are Self-imposed, like the Incarnation.
 
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Mannabar

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Is there any information on the relationship (or lack thereof) between time in physical universe and time for spirits apart from it?

Doesn't the phrase "end of time" appear in the Bible? Is that an accurate translation? Does it refer to the death of the universe, or something else?
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Is there any information on the relationship (or lack thereof) between time in physical universe and time for spirits apart from it?

Doesn't the phrase "end of time" appear in the Bible? Is that an accurate translation? Does it refer to the death of the universe, or something else?


The Bible does not present the idea of an end of the universe, but rather its continuance.


Rev 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 22:5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
 
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lsume

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Do spirits experience the passage of time, or do they merely feel a sensation like time passing, for example, if they suffer? ("When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, you think it's two hours.")

If time does pass for them, is it in their spirit realm or only if they interact with the physical? Is there a connection or relationship between spiritual time and physical time, or do they merely meet occasionally?

What about God? I always thought God's view of time must be like an author's view of his story; the characters perceive the state of their world at one moment in time, "here and now," but to the author, everything, everywhere, every time is "here and now." Is there more to it than that? Am I missing something?
Yes, you might recall that the enemy knows his time is short.
 
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BobRyan

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Do spirits experience the passage of time

Living beings always experience the passing of time.

Dormant ones do not experience the passing of time in all contexts. Dormant spirits of mankind do not experience the passing of time. It is an "instant" for them between death and resurrection.

1 Thess 4:
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

========================

Angels on the other hand are called "ministering spirits" and they always experience the passing of time.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Do spirits experience the passage of time, or do they merely feel a sensation like time passing, for example, if they suffer? ("When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, you think it's two hours.")

If time does pass for them, is it in their spirit realm or only if they interact with the physical? Is there a connection or relationship between spiritual time and physical time, or do they merely meet occasionally?

What about God? I always thought God's view of time must be like an author's view of his story; the characters perceive the state of their world at one moment in time, "here and now," but to the author, everything, everywhere, every time is "here and now." Is there more to it than that? Am I missing something?
God has One Spirit , His Holy Spirit, and He makes His Home in the regenerated believer. So what the Christian experiences so does His Holy Spirit as now they are connected. As far as evil spirits, scripture tells us they roam the earth in order to find those they can devour. Then of course the dead, there are several views on this stage before the ressurection.
Be blessed.
 
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timewerx

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Do spirits experience the passage of time, or do they merely feel a sensation like time passing, for example, if they suffer? ("When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, you think it's two hours.")

I have experienced where my soul have involuntarily separated from my body, traveled a short distance (just within our house) and was able to watch what the other members of the family were doing and confirmed this with them.

Without the physical body, time does starts acting weirdly.

At one time while separated from my physical body, I saw time pass around the house very quickly. Hours became seconds. Sunrise looked quite interesting. The sun came up like a meteor and birds were zipping in and out at incredible speed due to the fast forwarded time.

Sometimes, time passes normally, sometimes it appears frozen. On few occasions, I even observed the clock move backwards which means, time is moving in reverse.

So it would seem that time behaves quite differently in the spirit world. It's like a story in a book. When you are in your physical body, you are the character in the book. But in the spirit world, you become the reader. As a reader, you can always go back to the beginning or anywhere after you read the book.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Do spirits experience the passage of time, or do they merely feel a sensation like time passing, for example, if they suffer? ("When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, you think it's two hours.")

If time does pass for them, is it in their spirit realm or only if they interact with the physical? Is there a connection or relationship between spiritual time and physical time, or do they merely meet occasionally?

What about God? I always thought God's view of time must be like an author's view of his story; the characters perceive the state of their world at one moment in time, "here and now," but to the author, everything, everywhere, every time is "here and now." Is there more to it than that? Am I missing something?

Aside from angels and their fallen counterparts, the Christian religion doesn't believe in "spirits"; neither does the Christian religion speak of a "spirit realm". That's more of a thing in some ancient Pagan religions or traditional Animistic or Shamanic traditions. Or at the very least, more to do with modern fantasy-fiction.

As far as what angels experience, that's an unanswerable question. How do the angels experience time? Who knows.

As far as God's perspective, Scripture says that a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day--meaning time is irrelevant to God. In the same way that we speak of God as being everywhere, we also speak of God being every-when. Which is more-or-less how you've put it. God is infinite and boundless and is not constrained by the created order (space, time, and everything else).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Is there any information on the relationship (or lack thereof) between time in physical universe and time for spirits apart from it?

Doesn't the phrase "end of time" appear in the Bible? Is that an accurate translation? Does it refer to the death of the universe, or something else?

The Bible speaks of the redemption and renewing of all creation. The phrase "end of the age" appears in the Bible, speaking of the present time in which sin and death exist. The end of the age marks the beginning of the Age to Come, when the dead are raised and God makes all things new.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Mannabar

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Interesting responses.

neither does the Christian religion speak of a "spirit realm". That's more of a thing in some ancient Pagan religions or traditional Animistic or Shamanic traditions. Or at the very least, more to do with modern fantasy-fiction.
It had occurred to me that the term might seem assumptive, but I couldn't think of a better wording. Don't most Christians and other Abrahamic religionists believe there are places beyond the physical universe where spirits reside but physical beings cannot, e.g., paradise and hell?
 
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Jonaitis

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What about God? I always thought God's view of time must be like an author's view of his story; the characters perceive the state of their world at one moment in time, "here and now," but to the author, everything, everywhere, every time is "here and now." Is there more to it than that? Am I missing something?
God is timeless, similar to the illustration you gave.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Interesting responses.

It had occurred to me that the term might seem assumptive, but I couldn't think of a better wording. Don't most Christians and other Abrahamic religionists believe there are places beyond the physical universe where spirits reside but physical beings cannot, e.g., paradise and hell?

Calling heaven and hell "places" is, perhaps, saying a bit too much. To put it mildly, it's complicated.

The Bible itself actually has very little to say about what we might call "the afterlife". In the Old Testament, especially pre-Exile (before the Jews were taken into captivity in Babylon) we generally only see a very vague and somewhat nebulous idea about what happens after death. There is what is called "she'ol", a Hebrew word that literally translates to "grave" or "pit". We see bits and pieces about this state of existence "in the grave", in she'ol, as a kind of conscious experience. For example, after King David's infant son died, David says that he will be re-united with his son in death. When King Saul went to a necromancer in the middle of the night (which was a big no-no), there is a strange encounter where we read that the Prophet Samuel rises out of the ground, his shade or soul or whatever you want to call it. But that's all it really is, a sort of vague state of death. On the other hand, we do see the beginnings of the hope and belief in a future resurrection, so that in the book of the Prophet Isaiah we read that the dead will rise. So death, and the state of death, is a nebulous sort of thing, the interim between this life and the future resurrection.

At the same time, the language of "heaven", more-or-less just means everything we see when we look up--the stars, the sun, the moon, etc. After Solomon had the first Jewish Temple built and God deigns to inhabit it with His Divine Presence, Solomon says, "The heavens, not even the heavens of heavens, can contain You; how much less this house which I have built!" This phrase "heavens of heavens" can also be rendered as "the highest heavens" "the greatest heavens" etc. That is, the most sublime, uppermost, of everything we can see or fathom is insufficient to hold God, God is greater still, so Solomon is in awe that God who is greater than everything would choose to make His Divine habitation in this building of stone. That is, as the chief locus of the Divine Presence; the same God who also says, "The heavens are My throne, and the earth is My footstool"--again, a reference to God's unfathomable greatness as beyond and above all things. It is in this sense that "heaven" comes to be a way of talking about God's utter transcendence; so the angels (God's messengers) when described as being from heaven has more to do with the fact that they dwell in God's presence in a special or particular way. It's not about a place, a location, or a realm, or dimension--but rather about their being in the presence of God. But, again, the Jewish high priest who enters into the inner sanctuary of the Temple, likewise, enters into that same incomprehensible presence of God. In that way, when the high priest entered beyond the veil into the Holy of Holies--the inner sanctuary--it was, in a sense, as though the high priest entered into heaven--not in some literal change of location, but because he was before the profound presence of YHWH.

Post-Exile Judaism, or what we refer to as the Second Temple Period, and the books of the Old Testament written in this period still don't really go into much detail; though in extra-biblical writings from this period we do see a somewhat more complex. Apocalyptic literature (which doesn't mean "end of the world" but refers to a class of writings which involve visions, robust and graphic imagery, etc) frequently involved visions or visionary experiences where the main figure of the work is taken by an angel and shown profound things. So, for example, in the apocalyptic work of the book of Enoch (not in the Bible, but an influential work of the ancient period nonetheless) the titular Enoch beholds the Garden of Eden when he is taken into the third of seven heavens (why "seven heavens"? Because in the ancient world seven was often symbolic of divine things, not that there are literally seven "heavens"). Another word for the Garden of Eden is "Paradise", a Greek word borrowed from Persian, literally meaning "a garden". At the same time, Paradise or Gan-Eden (Garden of Eden) was viewed as a place of resting for Israel's patriarchs, hence also being called "Abraham's bosom", the righteous dead were seen as spending their rest in a foretaste of the renewal of creation.

That gets us to the New Testament, where the idea of "she'ol" is translated with the Greek word "hades", a general "place of the dead" as it were. But it is divided between the state of the righteous dead, called Paradise or Abraham's Bosom, and the state of the wicked dead called Gehenna. Gehenna is the Greek form of the Hebrew Ge-Hinnom, literally "Valley of Hinnom", a valley located outside of Jerusalem where in much more ancient times Canaanite Pagans worshiped the god Molech and would sacrifice their children to him by literally roasting their children alive on a red-hot metal idol of Molech. Considered in the Old Testament one of the most detestable and abominable practices of the Canaanites. The imagery and language of the Hinnom Valley was taken to describe how the state of the wicked dead was not pleasant. Jesus describes the state of the wicked as burning with unquenchable fire, in "outer darkness" where there is "wailing and gnashing of teeth". This is what most people think about when they hear the word "hell".

Also in the New Testament we see two more things. The Apostle Paul in his 2nd letter to the Corinthians speaks of a being present with Jesus while apart from the body. The words he uses in Greek can literally mean "emigrate from the body and immigrate to the Lord". So here Paul speaks of being apart from the body (in bodily death) which is with Jesus. And since the New Testament speaks of Jesus ascending to heaven, and being seated at the right hand of God the Father (again, not about literal location, but rather about Christ being enthroned as King and Lord of all things), it wasn't a great leap for Christians to speak of "going to heaven" after we die. And secondly, in St. John's Apocalypse (the Revelation) one of the visions we read involves Christian martyrs, having died in persecution, standing before God in heaven, asking how long until God will finally act to deal with this world's wickedness.

And this is where the language of "heaven and hell" comes from. That between death and the future resurrection, there is a foretaste of what is to come. For the righteous, it is a taste of eternal life resting in the presence of God, and often describe this as "being in heaven" as shorthand. And for the wicked, there is a foretaste of future judgment, what we usually describe as "hell". It's not about where, but rather about an experience that anticipates the future.

Christianity maintains that one day Jesus will return, and when He returns it is as Judge of everyone, of both the living and the dead. When He returns, the dead will be raised, the righteous will be raised to the fullness of eternal life and share in the beauty of God and the renewing of all creation. The wicked are raised to judgment and to an existence we don't quite understand--but St. John in the Revelation sees a vision in which the wicked, the devil, and even death and hades are themselves cast into what he describes as a "lake of fire and sulfur", and is called "the second death". This is also often called "hell" in a modern context. What exactly John's vision refers to is almost anyone's guess--there has never been a very clear consensus in Christianity on that front.

So, like I said, it's complicated. But it really has nothing to do with "spirits" being in a different "place", but rather about the experiences of the dead between death and resurrection. And, though I've written a lot here, I need to reiterate, the Bible itself says remarkably little--the Bible just isn't that interested in "the afterlife"; but cares a lot more about this life, and what can be called "life after life after death".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Mannabar

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Wow. I was going revise my post and ask if you were implying that although a belief in spirits residing beyond the physical universe is common among Christians (or at least Western Christians), such a belief is not essential to Christianity, but you're way ahead of me. :D

I knew 'heaven' meant 'sky,' which is why I said 'paradise and hell' and not 'heaven and hell.' But I wasn't aware Gan-Eden was portrayed as the good counterpart to Ge ben-Hinnom(sp?) until now. Maybe I should have been. :oops: Is it called Ganeden anywhere in the New Testament where Hinnom is called Gehenna? I don't have an interlinear Bible, so studying is difficult.

Will someone put Informative and Winner stickers for ViaCrucis on #16? I'd do it myself, but I'm still a newb.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Wow. I was going revise my post and ask if you were implying that although a belief in spirits residing beyond the physical universe is common among Christians (or at least Western Christians), such a belief is not essential to Christianity, but you're way ahead of me. :D

I knew 'heaven' meant 'sky,' which is why I said 'paradise and hell' and not 'heaven and hell.' But I wasn't aware Gan-Eden was portrayed as the good counterpart to Ge ben-Hinnom(sp?) until now. Maybe I should have been. :oops: Is it called Ganeden anywhere in the New Testament where Hinnom is called Gehenna? I don't have an interlinear Bible, so studying is difficult.

Will someone put Informative and Winner stickers for ViaCrucis on #16? I'd do it myself, but I'm still a newb.

The term Gan-Eden doesn't appear in the New Testament, but the Greek word paradeisos (paradise) does, which is the same thing. Paradise refers to the Garden. So when Paul writes in 2 Corinthians ch. 12 about a man who was caught up into the third heaven and into paradise, that's what he's talking about. It's an echo of the books of Enoch (the work called "the Book of Enoch" is actually comprised of several different works written at different times), specifically the apocalyptic where Enoch is taken by an angel shown things in the heavens, including the Garden of Eden which is in the third heaven. Though I want to make it clear that the Enochian literature isn't regarded as Scripture in Christianity (outside of the Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Churches, where the Ethiopic version of the "Book of Enoch" is included in their larger Canon), but it is representative of Jewish ideas and thinking from the 2nd Temple Period, and is therefore important historically.

Essentially the state of the dead is split, the righteous to Gan-Eden and the wicked to Ge-Hinnom; both can be described as "parts" of She'ol ("Hades" when translated into Greek). Not as places, but distinct states of experience in waiting between death and resurrection. Though Paradise is described as being in the heavens (the third heaven specifically), and Gehenna as being in the belly of the earth. It's not about a kind of metaphysical cosmology, which is the thing I'm trying to stress the most.

So, for example, when Christianity talks about Christ's descent into hell (the Harrowing of Hell), such as is confessed in the Apostles' Creed (descendit ad inferos, literally "descended into the lower regions") it's not about Jesus going to Gehenna, but Jesus going to the "place" of the righteous dead, where Jesus conquers death, hell, and the devil. So traditional Christian iconography depict Christ in Hades with the gates of Hades crushed beneath His feet, under which the devil (and death) are depicted bound and tied up, as He lifts Adam and Eve out of their sarcophagi to life, with the Old Testament saints on His right and left.

An example of the Icon of the Anastasis (Resurrection)
Resurrection-Anastasis-Icon-Hand-Painted-Byzantine-Orthodox-51.jpg


-CryptoLutheran
 
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YahuahSaves

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Aside from angels and their fallen counterparts, the Christian religion doesn't believe in "spirits"; neither does the Christian religion speak of a "spirit realm".

The Bible teaches the existence of an immaterial, spiritual reality, unseen by human eyes. The physical reality is evident for all to see—although some doubt the existence of a material universe, too! The Bible says that the spiritual realm consists of both good—God and the holy angels—and evil—the devil and his demons. Demons are most likely fallen angels who rebelled against God and were thrown out of heaven (see Ezekiel 28:11–17; Isaiah 14:12–15; Revelation 12:7–9). The Bible also teaches that humans were created by God in His image, which means we have a spiritual component (Genesis 1:27). We are more than physical entities; we possess a soul/spirit destined for eternity. Even though the spiritual realm is invisible to the physical eye, we are connected to it, and what goes on in the spiritual realm directly affects our physical world.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Bible teaches the existence of an immaterial, spiritual reality, unseen by human eyes. The physical reality is evident for all to see—although some doubt the existence of a material universe, too! The Bible says that the spiritual realm consists of both good—God and the holy angels—and evil—the devil and his demons. Demons are most likely fallen angels who rebelled against God and were thrown out of heaven (see Ezekiel 28:11–17; Isaiah 14:12–15; Revelation 12:7–9). The Bible also teaches that humans were created by God in His image, which means we have a spiritual component (Genesis 1:27). We are more than physical entities; we possess a soul/spirit destined for eternity. Even though the spiritual realm is invisible to the physical eye, we are connected to it, and what goes on in the spiritual realm directly affects our physical world.

That there are unseen spiritual creatures (angels and demons) is, of course, true according to Christianity. And, also, while it is true that human beings have a spiritual dimension to us, what we refer to as the human soul or human spirit; the eternal hope is one of bodily resurrection.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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"it is true that human beings have a spiritual dimension to us, what we refer to as the human soul or human spirit; the eternal hope is one of bodily resurrection".

I believe it's both. Human body in this life once born again (by the holy spirit), and in eternity as a spirit body.
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