Does this represent Christianity?

[Introverted1293]

I have erased this because I did not like what I had said. But I thank you for those who have responded.

 

[zephcom]

Sometimes when people think of Christians, they think of all the protests that Christians do; they think of all the rights Christians are trying to take away from them; they think about the Christians that go into Target and scream at the top of their lungs how they are all going to hell; they even see the division within Christian circles.

Look at Daigle, for example, after she said that she did not know whether a certain type of behavior was sinful. Christians started to talk about how she was a coward. They even said she wasn't a true Christians. Non-Christians noticed that, and even said "it's just like Christians to throw their own people under the bus." They think that Christians stab each other in the back. Now, I can't speak for all non-Christians, but the non-Christians I have encountered. Well, I read some of their comments, I did not speak to them. But I wonder if all non-Christians think this way.

But then I came across Rosario Butterfield, who was once living a lifestyle of sin, and she talks about why doesn't agree with the way that a lot of Christians represent the gospel to a certain community, Christians got really angry and decided to say that she isn't a true Christian. I am not saying she is right or wrong. I am not spiritual enough to determine whether she is right or wrong. But they way that Christians went after her simply because they did not agree with her. I am not saying that people have to agree with her.

But let me just tell you, she did not condone sin in any way. But that is not how they took it. She will always believe the gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. She has talked about repentance. But they saw this three minute clip and decided she wasn't a true Christian.

When is it going to stop? We are always saying "do not criticize the church." But then we are always criticizing those within the church. She never said that people in the church were not true believers. She did disagree with them. And there is nothing wrong with disagreement.

But there is a difference between disagreeing with somebody and telling someone that they do not belong to Jesus, who came to save us all.

Now, just to make a point, I recognize that we can't call ourselves Christians and continue in our rebellion towards God. We cannot continue to break God's law and say that we are his followers, according to Romans.

But she was not condoning any sin. She just did not agree with how the church represents the gospel, and it triggered people. Why?

After seeing these things, it's hard to wonder why church is so important. You can end up getting stabbed in the back by other Christians if you mess up.

I would suggest that the things you talk about here is the result of the massive amount of fragmentation which exists within Christianity. Everyone can 'believe' pretty much anything they like and because each person's choice is 'right' to them, they feel comfortable defending their version of truth against those who don't agree with them.

If a car were built using the Christian style, none of the wheels would point the same way, some windows would open and others wouldn't and yet others would not even exist, there would be steering wheels at each passenger location, there would be engines in both the front and back with neither connected to wheels....Well, you get the idea.

Given the way Christianity has evolved, it would be a miracle if there was not infighting over who is 'right' and who is 'wrong'.

 

[eleos1954]

Sometimes when people think of Christians, they think of all the protests that Christians do; they think of all the rights Christians are trying to take away from them; they think about the Christians that go into Target and scream at the top of their lungs how they are all going to hell; they even see the division within Christian circles.

Look at Daigle, for example, after she said that she did not know whether a certain type of behavior was sinful. Christians started to talk about how she was a coward. They even said she wasn't a true Christians. Non-Christians noticed that, and even said "it's just like Christians to throw their own people under the bus." They think that Christians stab each other in the back. Now, I can't speak for all non-Christians, but the non-Christians I have encountered. Well, I read some of their comments, I did not speak to them. But I wonder if all non-Christians think this way.

But then I came across Rosario Butterfield, who was once living a lifestyle of sin, and she talks about why doesn't agree with the way that a lot of Christians represent the gospel to a certain community, Christians got really angry and decided to say that she isn't a true Christian. I am not saying she is right or wrong. I am not spiritual enough to determine whether she is right or wrong. But they way that Christians went after her simply because they did not agree with her. I am not saying that people have to agree with her.

But let me just tell you, she did not condone sin in any way. But that is not how they took it. She will always believe the gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. She has talked about repentance. But they saw this three minute clip and decided she wasn't a true Christian.

When is it going to stop? We are always saying "do not criticize the church." But then we are always criticizing those within the church. She never said that people in the church were not true believers. She did disagree with them. And there is nothing wrong with disagreement.

But there is a difference between disagreeing with somebody and telling someone that they do not belong to Jesus, who came to save us all.

Now, just to make a point, I recognize that we can't call ourselves Christians and continue in our rebellion towards God. We cannot continue to break God's law and say that we are his followers, according to Romans.

But she was not condoning any sin. She just did not agree with how the church represents the gospel, and it triggered people. Why?

After seeing these things, it's hard to wonder why church is so important. You can end up getting stabbed in the back by other Christians if you mess up.

Sinners make up the world including those who attend church. Will attending church save you? No! Jesus saves!

Compare what is taught with the Word of God ... if light is given and that light (from Gods word) don't line up with church teachings ... then how can one continue in that church? or should I say who would want to?

She don't believe in what is being taught (and if using the Word of God as the measurement) ... ok ... and she stated so ... fine move on and don't worry about what others say or think about it.

Follow the Lamb. He is our example in all things.

God Bless.

 

[Rodan6]

If an individual claims to be "Christian", then they are Christian. Christians embrace Jesus and His teachings according to their individual desires and abilities. Many such individuals have sincerely embraced tenants not a part of the Master's teaching. This has led to much prejudice within the ranks of many denominations. In my opinion, this is the greatest problem and challenge for modern Christianity as a whole. No religion on earth is perfect, but all teach truths and have value accordingly. Our own Christian spiritual growth is heavily dependent upon our ability to recognize and reject prejudice in all aspects of our lives. Before God, there is absolutely no difference between men and women, nor is one's spiritual standing impacted by one's sexual preference or--even his or her religion. As we embrace this religious humility, we rejoice in the great truth that our loving Father loves us all the same.

 

[dcalling]

I would suggest that the things you talk about here is the result of the massive amount of fragmentation which exists within Christianity. Everyone can 'believe' pretty much anything they like and because each person's choice is 'right' to them, they feel comfortable defending their version of truth against those who don't agree with them.

If a car were built using the Christian style, none of the wheels would point the same way, some windows would open and others wouldn't and yet others would not even exist, there would be steering wheels at each passenger location, there would be engines in both the front and back with neither connected to wheels....Well, you get the idea.

Given the way Christianity has evolved, it would be a miracle if there was not infighting over who is 'right' and who is 'wrong'.

Christianity never evolved. All of years we are just trying to understand the various aspects of the Bible. The basics are very simple, i.e. Love God and Love your neighbor, that Jesus give the commandments to Love your neighbor as He loved us, that we are only saved by God's grace, and only God saves.

The differences are due to we can't understand God fully, so everyone will try to understand it differently, i.e. if we have free will, if we are saved before we even know it (almost like the conflict between Einstein and Bohr about the basics of quantum coupling).

 

[gadar perets]

But there is a difference between disagreeing with somebody and telling someone that they do not belong to Jesus, who came to save us all.

I used to be a Christian until I was told multiple times that I am not a Christian. Why? Several reasons. The first time was because I started keep the 7th day Sabbath holy after the Holy Spirit confirmed to me that I should. That did not sit well with the leaders of the church I was in, so they said I was fallen from grace and kicked me out. Further down the road I came to reject the belief that Yeshua (Jesus) is God or part of a trinity, or that he preexisted as a living being prior to his earthly birth. That brought the full wrath of Christians upon me. They said I cannot be a member of the Body of Christ and that I am lost forever. I have full faith in Messiah Yeshua as the Son of God and to save me and I continue to be his disciple 33 years later. If Christianity does not want me, that is their loss. I know Yeshua and his Father, Almighty YHWH, want me and love me.

Now, just to make a point, I recognize that we can't call ourselves Christians and continue in our rebellion towards God. We cannot continue to break God's law and say that we are his followers, according to Romans.

That is one reason why I started obeying all Ten Commandments, including the fourth, keeping the Sabbath Day holy by not working on that day. I also endeavor to obey every other Biblical law that applies to me, knowing that to disobey those laws is sin. Christians impose their own man made laws on other Christians, all the while trampling on the Almighty's laws and teaching others how they are abolished through Jesus. It all stems from ignorance of Scripture and failing to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I can no longer call myself a Christian, but then again, I never needed to. Christianity is not the door to the Kingdom of Heaven. Yeshua is. To follow and obey him is what is necessary. Those that treat others poorly because they disagree with Christian beliefs will be judged accordingly.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sometimes when people think of Christians, they think of all the protests that Christians do; they think of all the rights Christians are trying to take away from them; they think about the Christians that go into Target and scream at the top of their lungs how they are all going to hell; they even see the division within Christian circles.

Look at Daigle, for example, after she said that she did not know whether a certain type of behavior was sinful. Christians started to talk about how she was a coward. They even said she wasn't a true Christians. Non-Christians noticed that, and even said "it's just like Christians to throw their own people under the bus." They think that Christians stab each other in the back. Now, I can't speak for all non-Christians, but the non-Christians I have encountered. Well, I read some of their comments, I did not speak to them. But I wonder if all non-Christians think this way.

But then I came across Rosario Butterfield, who was once living a lifestyle of sin, and she talks about why doesn't agree with the way that a lot of Christians represent the gospel to a certain community, Christians got really angry and decided to say that she isn't a true Christian. I am not saying she is right or wrong. I am not spiritual enough to determine whether she is right or wrong. But they way that Christians went after her simply because they did not agree with her. I am not saying that people have to agree with her.

But let me just tell you, she did not condone sin in any way. But that is not how they took it. She will always believe the gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. She has talked about repentance. But they saw this three minute clip and decided she wasn't a true Christian.

When is it going to stop? We are always saying "do not criticize the church." But then we are always criticizing those within the church. She never said that people in the church were not true believers. She did disagree with them. And there is nothing wrong with disagreement.

But there is a difference between disagreeing with somebody and telling someone that they do not belong to Jesus, who came to save us all.

Now, just to make a point, I recognize that we can't call ourselves Christians and continue in our rebellion towards God. We cannot continue to break God's law and say that we are his followers, according to Romans.

But she was not condoning any sin. She just did not agree with how the church represents the gospel, and it triggered people. Why?

After seeing these things, it's hard to wonder why church is so important. You can end up getting stabbed in the back by other Christians if you mess up.

...wow. What very profound post, Introverted! Awesome! I agree with your analysis on all of this. I bought Lauren Daigle's new album and I've followed the supposed controversy that came about over her statements on a certain social issue. I think your points are something we all need to hear.

I won't say much more since you've covered quite a bit in your post already. But the one thing I will add is that I agree with one of Lauren Daigle's statements, and it was this: "As Christians, we don't get to choose who we are to love." And by this she seems to have meant that while we Christians may disagree with certain lifestyles and sins, we don't get to decide if we'll offer grace, mercy and love to a sinner, any kind of sinner. God has already decided for us that.......we will.

Again, thank you for your profound thoughts on this issue!

 

[brinny]

Sometimes when people think of Christians, they think of all the protests that Christians do; they think of all the rights Christians are trying to take away from them; they think about the Christians that go into Target and scream at the top of their lungs how they are all going to hell; they even see the division within Christian circles.

Look at Daigle, for example, after she said that she did not know whether a certain type of behavior was sinful. Christians started to talk about how she was a coward. They even said she wasn't a true Christians. Non-Christians noticed that, and even said "it's just like Christians to throw their own people under the bus." They think that Christians stab each other in the back. Now, I can't speak for all non-Christians, but the non-Christians I have encountered. Well, I read some of their comments, I did not speak to them. But I wonder if all non-Christians think this way.

But then I came across Rosario Butterfield, who was once living a lifestyle of sin, and she talks about why doesn't agree with the way that a lot of Christians represent the gospel to a certain community, Christians got really angry and decided to say that she isn't a true Christian. I am not saying she is right or wrong. I am not spiritual enough to determine whether she is right or wrong. But they way that Christians went after her simply because they did not agree with her. I am not saying that people have to agree with her.

But let me just tell you, she did not condone sin in any way. But that is not how they took it. She will always believe the gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. She has talked about repentance. But they saw this three minute clip and decided she wasn't a true Christian.

When is it going to stop? We are always saying "do not criticize the church." But then we are always criticizing those within the church. She never said that people in the church were not true believers. She did disagree with them. And there is nothing wrong with disagreement.

But there is a difference between disagreeing with somebody and telling someone that they do not belong to Jesus, who came to save us all.

Now, just to make a point, I recognize that we can't call ourselves Christians and continue in our rebellion towards God. We cannot continue to break God's law and say that we are his followers, according to Romans.

But she was not condoning any sin. She just did not agree with how the church represents the gospel, and it triggered people. Why?

After seeing these things, it's hard to wonder why church is so important. You can end up getting stabbed in the back by other Christians if you mess up.

i had never heard of Rosaria Butterfield. Here is a clip of a discussion/conversation she is having.

What is the gay Christian movement, by the way?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

i had never heard of Rosaria Butterfield. Here is a clip of a discussion/conversation she is having.

What is the gay Christian movement, by the way?

I don't think we can discuss that, can we? I'd hate to see Introverted's thread be removed because we cross some specific line.

 

[brinny]

I don't think we can discuss that, can we? I'd hate to see Introverted's thread be removed because we cross some specific line.

It's a legitimate question, as that is what is discussed in the video.

Would you care to elaborate on why it cannot be discussed?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's a legitimate question, as that is what is discussed in the video.

Would you care to elaborate on why it cannot be discussed?

In saying this, I'm simply referring to the rules regarding discussions of certain topics that the administrators of CF have put in place, or did put in place at one time. I'll have to search for them again to see if there's been some amendments. If they say it's okay, then so much the better.

 

[brinny]

In saying this, I'm simply referring to the rules regarding discussions of certain topics that the administrators of CF have put in place, or did put in place at one time. I'll have to search for them again to see if there's been some amendments. If they say it's okay, then so much the better.

The only thing i'm aware of, which is against the TOS, is promoting homosexuality. Is that what you are referring to? And what has that got to do with this person in the video?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The only thing i'm aware of, which is against the TOS, is promoting homosexuality. Is that what you are referring to? And what has that got to do with this person in the video?

I don't know. I have watched the video yet...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The only thing i'm aware of, which is against the TOS, is promoting homosexuality. Is that what you are referring to? And what has that got to do with this person in the video?

Ok. I've watched the video, and I'd say that I more ... or less... agree. But I don't think that what she focus's upon in the video, however interesting or orthodox it may or may not be is the central concern which Introvert has discussed in his OP above. He seems to be more concerned with HOW we as Christians actually treat people, specifically homosexual people. It would seem that there are some Christians who express their views on this subject by saying on the one hand, "Sure, God loves everybody," but then proceed to essentially space off, neglect, push-aside, deprecate, and remain otherwise unhelpful in life ... to homosexual people. As if our active love for them in physical and financial terms can and will only come about IF they repent first...............................and this kind of attitude among Christians....................is wrong.

 

[brinny]

Ok. I've watched the video, and I'd say that I more ... or less... agree. But I don't think that what she focus's upon in the video, however interesting or orthodox it may or may not be is the central concern which Introvert has discussed in his OP above. He seems to be more concerned with HOW we as Christians actually treat people, specifically homosexual people. It would seem that there are some Christians who express their views on this subject by saying on the one hand, "Sure, God's loves everybody," but then proceed to essentially space off, neglect, push-aside, deprecate, and remain otherwise unhelpful in life ... to homosexual people. As if our active love for them in physical and financial terms can and will only come about IF they repent first...............................and this kind of attitude among Christians....................is wrong.

She discussed the gay Christian movement.

What is it?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

She discussed the gay Christian movement.

What is it?

I think it pretty much explains itself in the name; but while I don't agree with it, that doesn't mean that my lead of action with those in that movement, OR with gay people in general, is to present them with a figurative "slug" in the jaw rather than with a hug and accompanying pangs of sympathy that show that I sincerely recognize that they are deeply struggling with their sexual orientation.

I've had plenty of gay acquaintances through the years, and it's obvious to me that they all need affirmation as fellow human beings as well as genuine empathy for their situations. But, that's where we start when we have to contend with the new Rainbow Paradigm that is sweeping across our nations.

 

[brinny]

I think it pretty much explains itself in the name; but while I don't agree with it, that doesn't mean that my lead of action with those in that movement, OR with gay people in general, is to present them with a figurative "slug" in the jaw rather than with a hug and accompanying pangs of sympathy that show that I sincerely recognize that they are deeply struggling with their sexual orientation.

I've had plenty of gay acquaintances through the years, and it's obvious to me that they all need affirmation as fellow human beings as well as genuine empathy for their situations. But, that's where we start when we have to contend with the new Rainbow Paradigm that is sweeping across our nations.

is this woman an advocate for the gay Christian movement? Is she promoting it?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

is this woman an advocate for the gay Christian movement? Is she promoting it?

Let's find out, shall we?! I'll go look and report back.

 

[Introverted1293]

..

 

[Introverted1293]

....