• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Does the Father have higher authority than the Son?

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
14,299
6,384
69
Pennsylvania
✟954,878.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Is that your confession because it certainly has nothing to do with me opening the Bible up that long and then reading it for myself. I assume your version only required listening to some Priest or Rabbi and then not talking back at all.
I go to a different Church, you entered it the moment you made your first comment:
M't:18:20:
For where two or three are gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them.


Since I have read your whole comment, let me help you with this part.

Click
That was not my first comment. Confession of what? Your need for condescension gives no authority to your claims, btw. If the length of your study is of any relevance, then so is mine. Yours pales by comparison ...just saying.

But I judge your use of scripture by its speculative nature; you make claims based only on your speculations, as though since you are sure of them they must be right. Yet your constructions provide you no proof the Adam was not told by God not to touch the tree. Did I transgress by questioning you on your claim on the matter? You leap directly into irrelevant claims that don't have anything to do with the question, whether your claims were speculative or authoritative. You really don't know whether God told Adam not to touch the tree. Just as I said with my first comment.

Why do you insist on overbearing? Your many words to show your ability has accomplished nothing of value; how well you know the scriptures has not advanced your argument, if you even had one on the question.

click
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
14,299
6,384
69
Pennsylvania
✟954,878.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
I suspect I am the candidate. . .the shoe fits.

What an exercise!
When there is such a lot of low-hanging fruit, one can wear themselves out just knocking them down! But it is kind of fun!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Clare73
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,485
7,599
North Carolina
✟349,063.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Those teaching came after the Christian Reformation Wars began in the 1300's, Right?
I think the NT was written before that, from which those teachings came, and which I have demonstrated whenever I presented them to you.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

Wayne Gabler

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2020
677
36
Calgary
✟30,027.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
I think the NT was written before that, from which they come, and which I have demonstrated whenever I presented them to you.
The Bible was together by about 325AD. In what year did the men who wrote the guidelines for the trinity doctrine write their 'works'. The Jews that were exiled to Neb's Babylon came to think their 'experts' knew more than the Prophets God sent them:
Jer:25:3-11:
From the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah,
even unto this day,
that is the three and twentieth year,
the word of the LORD hath come unto me,
and I have spoken unto you,
rising early and speaking;
but ye have not hearkened.
And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets,
rising early and sending them;
but ye have not hearkened,
nor inclined your ear to hear.
They said,
Turn ye again now every one from his evil way,
and from the evil of your doings,
and dwell in the land that the LORD hath given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever:
And go not after other gods to serve them,
and to worship them,
and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands;
and I will do you no hurt.
Yet ye have not hearkened unto me,
saith the LORD;
that ye might provoke me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt.
Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts;
Because ye have not heard my words,
Behold,
I will send and take all the families of the north,
saith the LORD,
and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon,
my servant,
and will bring them against this land,
and against the inhabitants thereof,
and against all these nations round about,
and will utterly destroy them,
and make them an astonishment,
and an hissing,
and perpetual desolations.
Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth,
and the voice of gladness,
the voice of the bridegroom,
and the voice of the bride,
the sound of the millstones,
and the light of the candle.
And this whole land shall be a desolation,
and an astonishment;
and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

The blindness was not removed or there would be no 'lost sheep'.
M't:15:24:
But he answered and said,
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Re:18:7:
How much she hath glorified herself,
and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her:
for she saith in her heart,
I sit a queen,
and am no widow,
and shall see no sorrow.
La:1:1-2:
How doth the city sit solitary,
that was full of people!
how is she become as a widow!
she that was great among the nations,
and princess among the provinces,
how is she become tributary!
She weepeth sore in the night,
and her tears are on her cheeks:
among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her:
all her friends have dealt treacherously with her,
they are become her enemies.

Martin Luther - Wikipedia
Martin Luther
10 November 1483[2] – 18 February 1546) was a German priest, theologian, author, composer, former Augustinian friar,[3] and is best known as a seminal figure in the Protestant Reformation and as the namesake of Lutheranism.

Luther was ordained to the priesthood in 1507. He came to reject several teachings and practices of the Roman Catholic Church; in particular, he disputed the view on indulgences. Luther proposed an academic discussion of the practice and efficacy of indulgences in his Ninety-five Theses of 1517. His refusal to renounce all of his writings at the demand of Pope Leo X in 1520 and the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms in 1521 resulted in his excommunication by the pope and condemnation as an outlaw by the Holy Roman Emperor.

Luther taught that salvation and, consequently, eternal life are not earned by good deeds but are received only as the free gift of God's grace through the believer's faith in Jesus Christ as redeemer from sin. His theology challenged the authority and office of the pope by teaching that the Bible is the only source of divinely revealed knowledge,[4] and opposed sacerdotalism by considering all baptized Christians to be a holy priesthood.[5] Those who identify with these, and all of Luther's wider teachings, are called Lutherans, though Luther insisted on Christian or Evangelical (German: evangelisch) as the only acceptable names for individuals who professed Christ.

His translation of the Bible into the German vernacular (instead of Latin) made it more accessible to the laity, an event that had a tremendous impact on both the church and German culture. It fostered the development of a standard version of the German language, added several principles to the art of translation,[6] and influenced the writing of an English translation, the Tyndale Bible.[7] His hymns influenced the development of singing in Protestant churches.[8] His marriage to Katharina von Bora, a former nun, set a model for the practice of clerical marriage, allowing Protestant clergy to marry.[9]
.
.
In 1501, at age 17, he entered the University of Erfurt, which he later described as a beerhouse and whorehouse.[18] He was made to wake at four every morning for what has been described as "a day of rote learning and often wearying spiritual exercises."[18] He received his master's degree in 1505.[19]

When you are funded by the Dutch Slave Traders, you are not more moral than Romans:13 believers.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,485
7,599
North Carolina
✟349,063.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Bible was together by about 325AD. In what year did
the men who wrote the guidelines for the trinity doctrine write their 'works'.
The Trinity is presented in NT teaching from the beginning.

1) We have three separate persons (divine agents), Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
presented in the work of salvation:

a)--at its beginning (Luke 1:35),
----at the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Matthew 3:16-17) and
----in the work of atonement (Hebrews 9:14),

b) the Holy Spirit completing the work (salvation) of the Father through the Son (Acts 2:38-39; Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:13-22; 2 Thessalonians 2:13;
1 Peter 1:2),

c) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father (salvation) is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (John 3:1-15).

2) And Jesus shows the personhoods of three distinct and separate divine agents:

The Son is sent by the Father, in the Father's name (John 5:23, 36, 43).
The Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (John 14:26).
The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (John 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).

One doesn't send oneself, one sends another who is separate from oneself.

The Trinity--one God in three separate divine persons--is presented in NT teaching from the beginning.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

Wayne Gabler

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2020
677
36
Calgary
✟30,027.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
One doesn't send oneself, one sends another who is separate from oneself.

The Trinity--one God in three separate divine persons--is presented in NT teaching from the beginning.
Except when it interferes with the doctrine you follow?
Isa:53:10:
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
M't:27:46:
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying,
Eli,
Eli,
lama sabachthani?
that is to say,
My God,
my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
M't:26:39:
And he went a little further,
and fell on his face,
and prayed,
saying,
O my Father,
if it be possible,
let this cup pass from me:
nevertheless not as I will,
but as thou wilt.
M't:26:42:
He went away again the second time,
and prayed,
saying,
O my Father,
if this cup may not pass away from me,
except I drink it,
thy will be done.

1Co:15:24-29:
Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign,
till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet.
But when he saith all things are put under him,
it is manifest that he is excepted,
which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him,
then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,
that God may be all in all.
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead,
if the dead rise not at all?
why are they then baptized for the dead?
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,485
7,599
North Carolina
✟349,063.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Except when it interferes with the doctrine you follow?
Isa:53:10:
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
M't:27:46:
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying,
Eli,
Eli,
lama sabachthani?
that is to say,
My God,
my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?

M't:26:39:
And he went a little further,
and fell on his face,
and prayed,
saying,
O my Father,
if it be possible,
let this cup pass from me:
nevertheless not as I will,
but as thou wilt.

M't:26:42:
He went away again the second time,
and prayed,
saying,
O my Father,
if this cup may not pass away from me,
except I drink it,
thy will be done.

1Co:15:24-29:
Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign,
till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet.
But when he saith all things are put under him,
it is manifest that he
(God himself) is excepted,
which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him,
then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,
that God may be all in all.
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead,
(perhaps baptized by their own blood, martyrdom for preaching the gospel?),
if the dead rise not at all?
(or Christians were being baptized in anticipation of the resurrection?)
why are they then baptized for the dead?
On what basis do you assume that I disagree with any of the Scriptures above?
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,104
7,529
61
Montgomery
✟256,673.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0