Does the Bible teach that obedience is expected after salvation?

Frogster · Feb 11, 2015

There were temple washings, the dead works have to be Judaism, and even the laying on of hands, they layed hands on the animal, so that the sin would go into the animal, so those 3 references, can very easily be understood as Judaism in 5-6.

What dead works were the Hebrews doing but Judaism?!

Argue with it fine, but then we got Galatians 4 as the hammer too!

Frogster · Feb 11, 2015

Alithis said:
its getting rather weird how you equate everything back to the law .our relationship with God and journey into God ,who is eternal will be eternally guided by the Holy Spirit .. we cannot catch up to the eternal god who has no beginning and no end we will never cease getting to know him and it is an error to consider the Lord only a savior and friend ,he is also our LORD and God .and even the lord Jesus himself submitted in love and obedience to the father and so we do also because it is an evidence that the love of God is within us and at work through us .
Adam walked and talked with the lord in full relationship until he disobeyed ..so we see clearly that obedience is an absolute in remaining in relationship with God because the instruction given is given for our good always and when ignored leads to only our bad .We always obey the older the wiser the one who knows what we cannot know .And we need not always understand why he instructs us in certain things .. but law? its nothing to do with written Law and everything to do with HEARING his voice ,with loving him , with getting to know him
if meeting the lord JESUS were breathing in ..then obedience is breathing out

you are not disproving my facts. I find that to be weird.

razzelflabben · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
as far as both posts, i showed the Judaistic reference in Gal 4, and the burden of proof is on you disprove, not to sprawl all of that in your post, but to answer directly

What other dead works were the hebrews doing, besides judaism?

according to the text, they continued teaching Christ rather than actually living Christ, which is the difference we keep trying to explain to you about obedience. The obedience of the law of Love, is to live Christ, not just talk about it....just like the text says and just like I have shown several different ways now.

What are the numerous washings in Christianity?:o

well we could get off track, but one such one is foot washing which a lot of churches today do.

Answer, it was Judaism, there are none ( numerous washings), so indeed there is judaism included in 5-6, not only that, but the point of emphasis was about leaving, and goint to maturity from elementalism.

teachings on washing being one of the elementary teaching in the church, but moving on to what? to living it not just talking about it. aka obedience.

So you can ignore all of that, but that won't help.

really? Ignoring all of what? I addressed everything you said using scripture.

Gosh the whole book of galatians and Hebrews is so similar, leave the elementals, and in both books judaism was the issue. So so go ahead, strain at a gnat, even though i showed judaism in the verses.

Why do yo ustill ignore gal 4?

man, are you having problems reading the scripture or do you just like being stubborn? what do you want me to say about GAl. 4 the short hand version is like the conclusions in Heb. 6 that the elementary teachings are just talking about Christ and the deeper things are living it out, aka obedience. But I put the work into showing you this in the text and you dismiss it, holding your own version above what the passage really does say, so what is the use in trying to discuss anything with you? You have shown in your posts an unwillingness to listen to me or scripture, seems to me that makes our discussion pretty meaningless.

Frogster · Feb 11, 2015

when one's primary focus is on obedience all the time, I think that is elemental.

razzelflabben · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
but my post was showing about leaving babyhood, the elementals, I have said that all along, lets not divert, thanks!

the smilies are enough said, you are not listening to anything being said...have a great day

razzelflabben · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
There were temple washings, the dead works have to be Judaism, and even the laying on of hands, they layed hands on the animal, so that the sin would go into the animal, so those 3 references, can very easily be understood as Judaism in 5-6.

What dead works were the Hebrews doing but Judaism?!

Argue with it fine, but then we got Galatians 4 as the hammer too!

NT has foot washings and laying hands on other believers for healing and receiving the HS.

razzelflabben · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
when one's primary focus is on obedience all the time, I think that is elemental.

and yet the text says that the elementary things are talking about Christ when we should be obeying Christ aka living it.

Frogster · Feb 11, 2015

razzelflabben said:
according to the text, they continued teaching Christ rather than actually living Christ, which is the difference we keep trying to explain to you about obedience. The obedience of the law of Love, is to live Christ, not just talk about it....just like the text says and just like I have shown several different ways now. well we could get off track, but one such one is foot washing which a lot of churches today do. teachings on washing being one of the elementary teaching in the church, but moving on to what? to living it not just talking about it. aka obedience. really? Ignoring all of what? I addressed everything you said using scripture. man, are you having problems reading the scripture or do you just like being stubborn? what do you want me to say about GAl. 4 the short hand version is like the conclusions in Heb. 6 that the elementary teachings are just talking about Christ and the deeper things are living it out, aka obedience. But I put the work into showing you this in the text and you dismiss it, holding your own version above what the passage really does say, so what is the use in trying to discuss anything with you? You have shown in your posts an unwillingness to listen to me or scripture, seems to me that makes our discussion pretty meaningless.

lol, Gal 4, short hand? it is soooo clear...then we got chapter 3, that says it too, shorthand? You are trying to argue from the abstract, even though i showed both in the verses in Hebrews, and you will not go to galatians with me. Why not?

Oh come on, in light of the context, and the temple washing, you really think he was talking about that common custom of foot washings there?

no way, it was temple stuff.

I see no reply about the Jewish dead works, all showing that 5-6 was about both, it had to be the whole book was about leaving judiasm, you can not isolate that fact.

The frog is really proving his point, more and more....

foot washings?! Wha!?..please, this was a serious book for them, he would not bother with a little thing like that.

Alithis · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
you are not disproving my facts. I find that to be weird.

"your" facts - do not automatically equate to truth . evolutionists present me with "their ,so called indisputable facts every time i speak with them " but their facts also do not equate to truth .
the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth ..GODS truth -to have one lead me . requires that i listen and follow .. that is obedience .it is an absolute in relationship with God

Frogster · Feb 11, 2015

razzelflabben said:
and yet the text says that the elementary things are talking about Christ when we should be obeying Christ aka living it.

but again, they were to leave the elementals, a fact you can not avoid.

My point stands anyway, my issue was, go to maturity, obedience training is law, that is for kids, elemental, the text says so, and that has not been disprved, your only hope was 5-6, but I have showed the obvious, Judaism is in those verse too..but even then it doesn't matter, leave the elementals, as I have said over and over, so that is moot now, to keep rehashing 5-6.

alrighy, ready to go to Galatians now, where the red meat sizzles!?

Frogster · Feb 11, 2015

Alithis said:
"your" facts - do not automatically equate to truth . evolutionists present me with "their ,so called indisputable facts every time i speak with them " but their facts also do not equate to truth .
the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth ..GODS truth -to have one lead me . requires that i listen and follow .. that is obedience .it is an absolute in relationship with God

then argue the text with me instead of thinking and saying it is weird.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
but again, they were to leave the elementals, a fact you can not avoid.

My point stands anyway, my issue was, go to maturity, obedience training is law, that is for kids, elemental, the text says so, and that has not been disprved, your only hope was 5-6, but I have showed the obvious, Judaism is in those verse too..but even then it doesn't matter, leave the elementals, as I have said over and over, so that is moot now, to keep rehashing 5-6.

alrighy, ready to go to Galatians now, where the red meat sizzles!?

Waiting .... if you are going to equate it with Isaac sitting back and just enjoying that which Abraham got for him then I think you are sadly mistaken. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Not just of Isaac. iow, the faith of Abraham coupled with the enjoyment of Isaac and completed in the experiences of Jacob that culminated in the reign of Joseph.

Frogster · Feb 11, 2015

Alithis said:
its getting rather weird how you equate everything back to the law .our relationship with God and journey into God ,who is eternal will be eternally guided by the Holy Spirit .. we cannot catch up to the eternal god who has no beginning and no end we will never cease getting to know him and it is an error to consider the Lord only a savior and friend ,he is also our LORD and God .and even the lord Jesus himself submitted in love and obedience to the father and so we do also because it is an evidence that the love of God is within us and at work through us .
Adam walked and talked with the lord in full relationship until he disobeyed ..so we see clearly that obedience is an absolute in remaining in relationship with God because the instruction given is given for our good always and when ignored leads to only our bad .We always obey the older the wiser the one who knows what we cannot know .And we need not always understand why he instructs us in certain things .. but law? its nothing to do with written Law and everything to do with HEARING his voice ,with loving him , with getting to know him
if meeting the lord JESUS were breathing in ..then obedience is breathing out

i guess your relationship is obedeince as center, mine is not.

I guess you presume I don't have a relationdhip with the lord, because I don"t harp on ebedience, which leads me tho think yours is based off obecience. fine, but I enjoy what I have,

Frogster · Feb 11, 2015

~Cassia~ said:
Waiting .... if you are going to equate it with Isaac sitting back and just enjoying that which Abraham got for him then I think you are sadly mistaken. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Not just of Isaac. iow, the faith of Abraham coupled with the enjoyment of Isaac and completed in the experiences of Jacob that culminated in the reign of Joseph.

ummm..ok..but I don't see what this has to do with my post.

Norah63 · Feb 11, 2015

You don't see or you can't see?

razzelflabben · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
lol, Gal 4, short hand? it is soooo clear...then we got chapter 3, that says it too, shorthand? You are trying to argue from the abstract, even though i showed both in the verses in Hebrews, and you will not go to galatians with me. Why not?

Oh come on, in light of the context, and the temple washing, you really think he was talking about that common custom of foot washings there?

no way, it was temple stuff.

at this point, your posts sound like gibberish....first I did not argue that Jewish customs were not involved in the teaching, only that "christian" customs are also included. Now I don't know if I was clear about that previously, but I know I am being clear now. I am NOT arguing that Jewish customs and traditions are not included, but that this goes way beyond just Jewish traditions and customs. IOW's it's about traditions no matter whose traditions they are. Second, I went to Gal. 4 only to have you accuse me of not going. Which is bearing false witness, now for someone who does not believe that obedience is necessary, this might seem trivial, but for the believer who takes scripture at it's word, this is sinful behavior. Thirdly, as I pointed out to you Gal. 4 does not contradict and in fact, it supports everything I have said to you so far.

I see no reply about the Jewish dead works, all showing that 5-6 was about both, it had to be the whole book was about leaving judiasm, you can not isolate that fact.

I am not sure how anyone can be this hard hearted as to not hear anything being said, but as I already stated, if you can't respond to me, we have nothing to talk about.

The frog is really proving his point, more and more....

foot washings?! Wha!?..please, this was a serious book for them, he would not bother with a little thing like that.

the frog is sounding more like gibberish all the time.

razzelflabben · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
but again, they were to leave the elementals, a fact you can not avoid.

okay last time I am going to say this and I will cap it so maybe you will not miss it this time, then we are done....WHEN I POSTED THE PASSAGE, ENTERING IT INTO THE DISCUSSION I DID SO TO SHOW THAT WE WERE TO MOVE FROM THE ELEMENTARY TEACHINGS INTO MATURITY. THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOUR IDEA OF WHAT IS ELEMENTARY TEACHING DOES NOTLINE UP WITH THE TEXT, THUS DOES NOT MATCH WHAT SCRIPTURE CALLS THE ELEMENTARY TEACHINGS. THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR ASSERTIONS. I really don't like to yell at people in posts, but you have been ignoring this for so long I don't know what else to do.

My point stands anyway, my issue was, go to maturity, obedience training is law, that is for kids, elemental, the text says so, and that has not been disprved, your only hope was 5-6, but I have showed the obvious, Judaism is in those verse too..but even then it doesn't matter, leave the elementals, as I have said over and over, so that is moot now, to keep rehashing 5-6.

wow...and you know what, I can say it backwards too...wow...the text clearly says that the elementary teachings are the talking about it, we are to move into the living it. I showed you that straight out of the passage and you just hand wave it away...if you want to just handwave scripture away, do so, just make sure the innocent aren't standing too close when lightening strikes.

alrighy, ready to go to Galatians now, where the red meat sizzles!?

I've been to Gal. several times now and it says exactly what I showed you in Heb. 6...not sure what you think you gain by pretending otherwise, but this ignoring what you are told is old and has to stop.

Sabertooth · Feb 11, 2015

Jesus said:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Matthew 28:19-20 NIV

razzelflabben · Feb 11, 2015

Sabertooth said:
Matthew 28:19-20 NIV

but some here don't accept scripture as the authority, did you miss that?

Alithis · Feb 11, 2015

Frogster said:
then argue the text with me instead of thinking and saying it is weird.

text arguing is living by the letter .. living by the Holy Spirit, in the spirit of the text ,rather then the letter of it ,is a living breathing loving relationship with my Lord and Savior ...i have the written word as a solid rock of reference in instruction .. but it points me to the lord Jesus who has risen from the dead and walks and talks with me by his Holy Spirit and always in agreement to his word .. he has shown me it is essential to obey God who knows all things in a manner we can never know and is thus all wise and obedience to him, is eternally beneficial and absolute in necessity to abide in him .

its a case of searching the scriptures because in the scripture you think you have eternal life . but the scriptures (the text) is not pointing to itself but to the living word who is the Lord Jesus .
for someone who speaks so adamantly against the law .. it is an intellectual law of text ,without relationship or life application which you seem impose upon almost every topic which assumes a living relationship with the lord Jesus.

the op asks- does the bible teach obedience ..?
the simple answer is -yes ...

it records the words of the lord Jesus himself who over and over reiterates the importance and need of obedience.

consider: He is what your arguing against .. not some "text" .

Does the Bible teach that obedience is expected after salvation?

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