Does Science Agree With the Bible?

dad

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Hi,

God, never took back, Subdue The Earth.
Never see that again either. Name one post fall period time that God said that!?

Just like he never took back what He said about Adam and Eve.

The earth cannot be subdued, nor subdued without solving problems.
Adam may have been able to rule nature..weather...animals etc. You can't do that now.
Solving problems, requires science.
Adam had none. Nor did he need any actually.
Filling the earth requires science to provide, food shelter and clothing.
False. It requires sex and walking.

I actually, briefly considered your Laws Question, from varying parts of The Universe, from my "Pay Grade", which includes, being able to still go there, at the end of the tunnel from the source of Creation, to almost the end of Creation, where the earth now is.
You actually have never left earth in reality, right? Why not face it?
I cannot sense nor claim, anything about time, nor a lot of things, that I thought I could say.
So you are stumped. OK.
I didn't comment about it, because I don't know, after going there during our last talk. I wrote much, in anticipation of reassuring you that you were wrong about any things not being the same, in all parts of universe. After going there and feeling and looking, I erased those parts. I did, because it may be true, and it may not be true, as all things for Creation, come from that source, through that tunnel, to here.
In other words science doesn't know. So they better not dare try to tell us God and His word were wrong.
Baby steps: God Did Some major to me, stuff.
Baby steps: My permissions with God changed, when I said YES!, one day.
I said YES!, in late 2007.

Saying yes to Jesus is a good thing. Not sure if you think you have some special 'permissions' from Him. The reality is that I have as many, and that science is foolish when it comes to creation issues.
 
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katerinah1947

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Never see that again either. Name one post fall period time that God said that!?

Yes, so science is still demanded of us, by God.

Adam may have been able to rule nature..weather...animals etc. You can't do that now.

Now where did that come from?

Adam had none. Nor did he need any actually.

Please don't guess.

False. It requires sex and walking.

No.

You actually have never left earth in reality, right?

I am here. I am there and here when I am there. When I am there, I am also here.

This is no, out of body experience.

Why not face it?

Face what?

So you are stumped. OK.

No. I just can't give you an answer. You actually, on some things might be right.

The density of energy, is higher, at that section of The Entire Universe.

Visually, it looks the same.

In other words science doesn't know.

Right.

So they better not dare try to tell us God and His word were wrong.

We've been over this already. No, real scientist would actually say that.

Credentials and degrees or even working in science does not make a person a real scientist.

Honesty does.

Saying yes to Jesus is a good thing. Not sure if you think you have some special 'permissions' from Him. The reality is that I have as many, and that science is foolish when it comes to creation issues.

I was not asked to marry Jesus. I was asked if I would marry, His Dad.

I said YES!, to His Father. I have a personal relationship with Jesus, so you don't worry too much.

LOVE,
 
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Luke17:37

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It took me awhile to get to a computer to respond... it's too much for a week. (And then to find the post after a week.)

You need to study more science. God could not have made the stars on the fourth day. As Sagan says we are star stuff, the elements that make up the earth were made in stars.

God clearly says He made the stars on the fourth day. To say God couldn't have is a lack of faith or a willful rejection of God's word for man's word. And Sagan could care less about God.

The order is right there. God made the heavens then the earth and then the sea. He did not make the sea, then the earth and then the heavens.
Water (mayim) is one of the first things mentioned, after God's blanket statement ("In the beginning, God created the heavens (hashamayim) and the earth."). From there, light (also, day 1), separation of the waters/stretching out of the heavens (day 2), plants (day 3), sun/moon/heavenly bodies (day 4)...

Genesis 1:2 (NKJV)
2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

As a dispensationalist I am pretrib. I do not think I will die other then as Paul says we die daily. I beleive I will be transformed before tribulation period because the Bible says: "Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." The wrath of God is for the world not the Church. The Bride will not be here in the world. In fact the Bride could not be here in the world when the wrath of God is poured out. The false dead harlot church will still be here and perhaps there will be people that do not notice that the true church is gone.
The coming wrath is eternal separation from God, not the Great Tribulation which I am 100% convinced that Christians will be here for. Genesis 1-11 and the Tribulation/Return of Christ are two subjects about which I have very strong convictions and passions.

God gave us the Bible, the written word of God, just as we have written history. He also gave us the natural record for those who take the time to study science. He does not contradict Himself. Science does not contradict the Bible. There are people that do not understand the Bible and there are people that do not understand the evidence God has given us through Science. The age of the universe is based on the Hubble effect. Fairly simple math that calculates the expansion rate of the universe and the spin down rate of the earth and the receding rate of the moon. This is the very same math that we use for our BPS with our smart phones and our satellite technology. If you trust science to give you a smart phone then why not trust them to use the same physics and the same math to tell us the age of the Universe? Only it is up to you to study science for yourself. If you do not want to that is your choice. But sooner or later you will need to learn it. The Bible and science go hand in hand and they compliment each other.
The written Word of God is authoritative. Operational science (how the universe works today, from which we get all our technology and medical science) has nothing to do with origins science (how the universe came to be). Origins science is not authoritative, and nobody can prove anything since it's not repeatable. Conclusions are colored by assumptions.

I have read the Bible at least 5 times and I do not treat it carelessly. Perhaps you are guilty of what you are trying to accuse me. Does the Bible not say: "1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.…" So according to the Bible you are guilty when you judge others. So be careful what you accuse me of, because you maybe telling on yourself.

Again you maybe guilty of what you are accusing others of. I do not reject the literal understanding of the Bible. So you should be careful when you accuse others that you do not bear false witness. Everyone has their own understanding. I do not reject any of it. Even the Christians here on the forum. They approach maybe slightly different then mine, but from their perspective what they believe is true. Like you they believe in a literal understanding of the Bible. I do not reject any of the creation theories and I accept all of them. In context from their perspective.
I'm simply exhorting you to put up with sound doctrine (Titus 1:9, 2 Timothy 4:3-5)... including Genesis 1. I'm not judging your heart on matters I don't know. Besides Genesis 1-3 being the foundation for the gospel, it matters to God that you believe Him.

Revelation 3:14–15 (NKJV)
14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.

I think Jesus identifies Himself as such because He wants us to believe His clear and faithful witness about the beginning of creation. Perhaps, beside speaking to the historical church at Laodicea, Jesus was also speaking to the last generation(s) of the Church. There are lots of confessed Christians now who don't believe that Genesis 1-11 is literal history in one way or another. 2 Peter 3:3-9 describes how this foundation will aid in people's rejection of the literal, bodily return of Christ.

You can't "accept all the creation theories" because they aren't the same. You aren't accepting a literal, 6 day young earth creation.

If you want to go through the trib then go through it. But I would suggest you get off the grid.

I don't "want" to go through the Tribulation, but it's not my choice. I'm more concerned right now for the Christians who may be deceived (I don't know who's elect and who's not) and about the people who still need to know Jesus than I am about coming up with strategies on how I could preserve or prolong my life in the Tribulation. Besides, self preservation as a strategy in the Tribulation is not going to work anyway.

Luke 17:33 (NKJV)
33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
 
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dad

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Yes, so science is still demanded of us, by God.
Oh? So He demands nuclear weapons? Some subduing.

I am here. I am there and here when I am there. When I am there, I am also here.
Thanks for clearing that up, some may have wondered.

No. I just can't give you an answer. You actually, on some things might be right.

The density of energy, is higher, at that section of The Entire Universe.
Section? What section is this? Give us maybe at least some nearby star system or something to narrow down what you are thinking of.
Visually, it looks the same.
In this fishbowl of earth, it would look the same.

Credentials and degrees or even working in science does not make a person a real scientist.
No?
Honesty does.
Not really. One can hire scientists to say what we want like lawyers.

I was not asked to marry Jesus. I was asked if I would marry, His Dad.
I didn't see that in the bible. Not the dad bit.
I said YES!, to His Father. I have a personal relationship with Jesus, so you don't worry too much.
OK. I am not worried about your salvation or afterlife. I am somewhat unimpressed with your opinion of godless science.
 
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joshua 1 9

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God clearly says He made the stars on the fourth day.
Ok, lets take a look at that: "1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also." We read that God made two great lights. This must be a reference to the Sun and the Moon where we are told that the Sun is a greater light and the Moon is a lesser light. Only now we know that the Moon is not a Light at all. The moon reflects the light from the Sun. The Moon only appears to be a light. Besides all of that we know that God did not create the Sun and the Moon on the forth day. Period the end, we know that. So there is no reason to interpret the Bible that way. We have to look for an interpretation that reflects what we know about the Sun and the Moon from Science.
Water (mayim) is one of the first things mentioned, after God's blanket statement ("In the beginning, God created the heavens (hashamayim) and the earth."). From there, light (also, day 1), separation of the waters/stretching out of the heavens (day 2), plants (day 3), sun/moon/heavenly bodies (day 4)...
This is consistant with science. We know that the Earth like the Sun started out as a gas and then became a liquid and then a solid.

I am 100% convinced that Christians will be here for.
Then I do not doubt that you and other "Christians" will be here for that. I will not be here because there will be no need for me to be here. My work will be done. My advise would be to get a weekend house that is off the grid. So you can go to your weekend house to live if you need to if something were to happen to your city house. I am experimenting around myself with LED lighting, even USB LED lighting because I can use a 3.6 volt battery that cost about a dollar, with a solar charger that I can get for about $3. So for about $5 I can have a light bright enough to read that has a battery that can be recharged with the Sun.


Genesis 1-11 and the Tribulation/Return of Christ are two subjects about which I have very strong convictions and passions.

The written Word of God is authoritative. Operational science (how the universe works today, from which we get all our technology and medical science) has nothing to do with origins science (how the universe came to be). Origins science is not authoritative, and nobody can prove anything since it's not repeatable. Conclusions are colored by assumptions.
Science is based on physical evidence that God gives us the ability to understand. Creationism and Science has all the same evidence to examine. If your understanding of the evidence that God gives us to examine is different then that is fine. As long as what you believe is based on the scientific evidence that God gives us to examine and study. He created us with the ability to understand His creation. We are told blesses are those who find wisdom: "…19The LORD by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens. 20By His knowledge the deeps were broken up And the skies drip with dew. (prov 3) So we have wisdom, knowledge and understanding of God's Creation. Only when we study Creation we study ourselves and that sort of self reflection, or self examination is difficult. Still we are an observer and we are able to observe God's Creation. Just like the Angles are observers. They are the eyes of the Lord that go to and fro throughout the Earth. "For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him."

I think Jesus identifies Himself as such because He wants us to believe His clear and faithful witness about the beginning of creation.
Yes, we have the written word of God that gives us witness and testimony. We also have the physical evidence from Science that gives us a witness and a testimony. They agree with each other. As I say there is no conflict between True Science and True Religion. By True Religion what I mean is the Bible and a proper understanding of the Bible. With Science we have evidence like the fossil record and geology. The vast majority of the people see no conflict between Science and their Religious faith. They may not understand everything and that is fine. Neither Religion or Science can solver every problem or answer every question. We have to go directly to God to answer our questions and solve our problems and He tells us NOT to lean on our OWN understanding but to TRUST in Him.

Perhaps, beside speaking to the historical church at Laodicea, Jesus was also speaking to the last generation(s) of the Church.
That is fine, that is an acceptable interpretation. There are other meanings as well. For example Laodicea was a real physical church in that city at that time. For me this is important that the Bible has literal meaning and also symbolic meaning. What they call shaddows and types.

There are lots of confessed Christians now who don't believe that Genesis 1-11 is literal history in one way or another.
Genesis Chapter one is different from the rest of Genesis. Although there are other books in the Bible that talks about the Creation we read about in Chapter one. Job is an example: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand." Also the book of psalms: "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." This is where Moses tells us: "90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." "90:10 The days of our years are threescoreyears and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."

Psa 18:10And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: H5774 yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
Psa 55:6And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, H5774 and be at rest.

You can't "accept all the creation theories" because they aren't the same.
They are all the same in that they all have truth and error. In all of them we still see dimly as in a mirror and God has not yet give us full knowledge and full understanding.

You aren't accepting a literal, 6 day young earth creation.
I do if you want to do like Bishop Ussher does and ignore whatever happened before Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago. For me I am a dispensationist so a day is 1,000 year. Only I understand the other interpretations and from their perspective there is no problem with that. I do not limit God, the Bible can have many levels of understanding as we grow and mature. Children have a way to understand and mature adults have a better understanding. We are told that we have to become as a child. Prov 4 18 Still we look forward to a perfect day: "But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day."

I don't "want" to go through the Tribulation, but it's not my choice. I'm more concerned right now for the Christians who may be deceived (I don't know who's elect and who's not) and about the people who still need to know Jesus than I am about coming up with strategies on how I could preserve or prolong my life in the Tribulation. Besides, self preservation as a strategy in the Tribulation is not going to work anyway.
Ok, that is fine. I am a dispensationist and believe that the Church age, the Holy Spirit dispensation, the Age of Grace is 2,000 years. I do not know for sure when the day of Pentacost was but I am thinking it was in the year 29. So that means the end of the second day will be in 2029. As that day gets closer lots and lots of people will be writing books and trying to make money off of the whole things.

Luke 17:33 (NKJV)
33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Yes and Paul says: "I die daily." Or the NIV says: "I face death everyday". We die to self so we can live for God.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Luke17:37

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Ok, lets take a look at that: "1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also." We read that God made two great lights. This must be a reference to the Sun and the Moon where we are told that the Sun is a greater light and the Moon is a lesser light. Only now we know that the Moon is not a Light at all. The moon reflects the light from the Sun. The Moon only appears to be a light. Besides all of that we know that God did not create the Sun and the Moon on the forth day. Period the end, we know that. So there is no reason to interpret the Bible that way. We have to look for an interpretation that reflects what we know about the Sun and the Moon from Science.
This is consistant with science. We know that the Earth like the Sun started out as a gas and then became a liquid and then a solid.

Then I do not doubt that you and other "Christians" will be here for that. I will not be here because there will be no need for me to be here. My work will be done. My advise would be to get a weekend house that is off the grid. So you can go to your weekend house to live if you need to if something were to happen to your city house. I am experimenting around myself with LED lighting, even USB LED lighting because I can use a 3.6 volt battery that cost about a dollar, with a solar charger that I can get for about $3. So for about $5 I can have a light bright enough to read that has a battery that can be recharged with the Sun.


Science is based on physical evidence that God gives us the ability to understand. Creationism and Science has all the same evidence to examine. If your understanding of the evidence that God gives us to examine is different then that is fine. As long as what you believe is based on the scientific evidence that God gives us to examine and study. He created us with the ability to understand His creation. We are told blesses are those who find wisdom: "…19The LORD by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens. 20By His knowledge the deeps were broken up And the skies drip with dew. (prov 3) So we have wisdom, knowledge and understanding of God's Creation. Only when we study Creation we study ourselves and that sort of self reflection, or self examination is difficult. Still we are an observer and we are able to observe God's Creation. Just like the Angles are observers. They are the eyes of the Lord that go to and fro throughout the Earth. "For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him."

Yes, we have the written word of God that gives us witness and testimony. We also have the physical evidence from Science that gives us a witness and a testimony. They agree with each other. As I say there is no conflict between True Science and True Religion. By True Religion what I mean is the Bible and a proper understanding of the Bible. With Science we have evidence like the fossil record and geology. The vast majority of the people see no conflict between Science and their Religious faith. They may not understand everything and that is fine. Neither Religion or Science can solver every problem or answer every question. We have to go directly to God to answer our questions and solve our problems and He tells us NOT to lean on our OWN understanding but to TRUST in Him.

That is fine, that is an acceptable interpretation. There are other meanings as well. For example Laodicea was a real physical church in that city at that time. For me this is important that the Bible has literal meaning and also symbolic meaning. What they call shaddows and types.

Genesis Chapter one is different from the rest of Genesis. Although there are other books in the Bible that talks about the Creation we read about in Chapter one. Job is an example: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand." Also the book of psalms: "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." This is where Moses tells us: "90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." "90:10 The days of our years are threescoreyears and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."

Psa 18:10And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: H5774 yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
Psa 55:6And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, H5774 and be at rest.

They are all the same in that they all have truth and error. In all of them we still see dimly as in a mirror and God has not yet give us full knowledge and full understanding.

I do if you want to do like Bishop Ussher does and ignore whatever happened before Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago. For me I am a dispensationist so a day is 1,000 year. Only I understand the other interpretations and from their perspective there is no problem with that. I do not limit God, the Bible can have many levels of understanding as we grow and mature. Children have a way to understand and mature adults have a better understanding. We are told that we have to become as a child. Prov 4 18 Still we look forward to a perfect day: "But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day."

Ok, that is fine. I am a dispensationist and believe that the Church age, the Holy Spirit dispensation, the Age of Grace is 2,000 years. I do not know for sure when the day of Pentacost was but I am thinking it was in the year 29. So that means the end of the second day will be in 2029. As that day gets closer lots and lots of people will be writing books and trying to make money off of the whole things.

Yes and Paul says: "I die daily." Or the NIV says: "I face death everyday". We die to self so we can live for God.

God said He created the heavenly bodies on the fourth day. End of story. You think He doesn't mean what He says because scientists teach that it's been around for billions of years. Scientists are not bias-free. Everyone has the same evidence, but worldview shapes how we look at evidence. You think scientists' word is more reliable than God's, or on the same level. It is not and never will be. The science of technology is not the same as the "science" of origins, which is not science at all--really, it is just a matter of faith. Godless scientists like Sagan must believe in millions of years because that somehow makes anything seem plausible and they cannot accept the Creator.

Perhaps you think a man's theory (dispensationalism) is worthy of being held to regardless of its Scriptural basis. Maybe you never studied it yourself, to see if the Scripture really teaches pre-Tribulation rapture or not. I have; it does not. For one example, study of the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13 (which Jesus also explains) should show you that there is no such thing as a pre-Tribulation rapture. True and false (or non) Christians live together until the end. First the wicked destroyed and then the righteous are gathered. But people gather teachers to tell them what they want to hear.

There's no point in us going back and forth anymore.
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,

So did God create the Scientific Methoid?

Short answer: God did not Create The Scientic Method in one sense, and in the same sense of the word Create, as it is from His Own Personal Wisdom, which has always been a part of Him, still The Scientific Method, was not Created by Him.

Rather The Scientific Method, is imparted to man/men, in the normal way and fashion, that God has always imparted Knowledge to man/mankind.

It is given, to those who please God by being afraid to hurt His Feelings.

The Genesis 1:28, boys and girls please God. They do that by doing science, as God Asked them to do in that Blessing.

One cannot do science well if they have not committed themselves to honesty, at the highest possible level they can achieve.

Biblically, Joshua, in Proverbs, you will see, The Scientific Method talked about, in a way.

The two concepts there are the results of wisdom, given by Wisdom, who Was Created, by God, and wisdom which is in God Himself.

Proverbs 8

Further, when one reads Proverbs Frequently, and chooses or not, with honesty, to do what is there, then things like The Scientific Method is given, in a way.

The way, first mentioned, in the later parts of Psalms 2, is fascinating. And, that part accepting The Jesus of Psalms 2, is also part of getting wisdom, from Wisdom, whom to me, God Created and assigned the task of imparting wisdom, to certain individuals only, and those individuals are ALL INDIVIDUALS, who are afraid of hurting God's feelings.

R U Hebrew?

In what sense do you mean that?

A very famous Rabbi, in Post World War II, working with the surviving victims in Concentration Camps, has my last name.

I do not know.

I love the Jews for Biblical Reasons. One is, God The Father says He LOVES Them. Jesus LOVES Them, The Silent One to us, The Holy Spirit, He LOVES Them.

No one on earth, typically knows if that they are not of Chosen People Ancestry, as there was a lot of spreading.

As a result, you cannot say with 100% accuracy, that you are not Jewish.

Neither can anyone else, I think say that.

But, to my knowledge, I am 3/4 German, 1/4 Polish, but I am told there is less than 100% Purity in The German and Polish parts.

LOVE,
 
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joshua 1 9

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Hi,



Short answer: God did not Create The Scientic Method in one sense, and in the same sense of the word Create, as it is from His Own Personal Wisdom, which has always been a part of Him, still The Scientific Method, was not Created by Him.

Rather The Scientific Method, is imparted to man/men, in the normal way and fashion, that God has always imparted Knowledge to man/mankind.

It is given, to those who please God by being afraid to hurt His Feelings.

The Genesis 1:28, boys and girls please God. They do that by doing science, as God Asked them to do in that Blessing.

One cannot do science well if they have not committed themselves to honesty, at the highest possible level they can achieve.

Biblically, Joshua, in Proverbs, you will see, The Scientific Method talked about, in a way.

The two concepts there are the results of wisdom, given by Wisdom, who Was Created, by God, and wisdom which is in God Himself.

Proverbs 8

Further, when one reads Proverbs Frequently, and chooses or not, with honesty, to do what is there, then things like The Scientific Method is given, in a way.

The way, first mentioned, in the later parts of Psalms 2, is fascinating. And, that part accepting The Jesus of Psalms 2, is also part of getting wisdom, from Wisdom, whom to me, God Created and assigned the task of imparting wisdom, to certain individuals only, and those individuals are ALL INDIVIDUALS, who are afraid of hurting God's feelings.



In what sense do you mean that?

A very famous Rabbi, in Post World War II, working with the surviving victims in Concentration Camps, has my last name.

I do not know.

I love the Jews for Biblical Reasons. One is, God The Father says He LOVES Them. Jesus LOVES Them, The Silent One to us, The Holy Spirit, He LOVES Them.

No one on earth, typically knows if that they are not of Chosen People Ancestry, as there was a lot of spreading.

As a result, you cannot say with 100% accuracy, that you are not Jewish.

Neither can anyone else, I think say that.

But, to my knowledge, I am 3/4 German, 1/4 Polish, but I am told there is less than 100% Purity in The German and Polish parts.

LOVE,
Then we have a choice if we are going to please God or man. Perhaps that is why James says that friendship with the world is enmity with God.

Jas 4:4 "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity G2189 with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."

Rom 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity G2189 against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

In the book of Hosea God seems to indicate that Isreal is His Bride. Jesus refers to Israel as the friend of the Bridegroom.
 
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joshua 1 9

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One cannot do science well if they have not committed themselves to honesty, at the highest possible level they can achieve.
Do the atheist even see how dishonest they are? They are a very vocal group and they try to win as many converts as they can. That is why creationists need to do a better job then they have. So we can defend the faith. Esp in this day and age of apostasy when we are so very close to the end of the Church Age and the Holy Spirit dispensation or the Age of Grace is soon coming to an end.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Do the atheist even see how dishonest they are? They are a very vocal group and they try to win as many converts as they can. That is why creationists need to do a better job then they have. So we can defend the faith.

You realize you just said that Atheists are bad but they're still doing better than you, right?


Esp in this day and age of apostasy when we are so very close to the end of the Church Age and the Holy Spirit dispensation or the Age of Grace is soon coming to an end.

Repent, the end is nigh... heard it before.
 
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Michael

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Do the atheist even see how dishonest they are?

I think that's an overreaching generalization that really doesn't apply to the topic of the age of the Earth or evolutionary theory. Even Catholics support these ideas based on "scientific evidence".

They are a very vocal group and they try to win as many converts as they can.

Sure, atheism has it's share of "evangelicals", just like any other group. Again however, simply having a debate about the age of the Earth isn't necessarily the same intent as trying to "convert" a theist to atheism.

That is why creationists need to do a better job then they have.

Frankly I think YEC has done more to convert theists to atheism than any other "false belief" I can think of. Once people realize that part of the "faith" could be incorrect, it tends to cause the individual to doubt other aspects of their faith. IMO that's the danger of wrapping up a whole dogma package that includes areas of "science" into a "religion". The potential for conflict can have unintended consequences.

So we can defend the faith.

And yet Catholics believe that they are "defending the faith" when they debate the age of the Earth with YEC too.

Esp in this day and age of apostasy when we are so very close to the end of the Church Age and the Holy Spirit dispensation or the Age of Grace is soon coming to an end.

Every generation since the time of Christ was sure they lived in the "end times". :)
 
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joshua 1 9

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I think that's an overreaching generalization that really doesn't apply to the topic of the age of the Earth or evolutionary theory. Even Catholics support these ideas based on "scientific evidence".
:)
I do not think it is a generalization at all. Science is agnostic, that is the honest position because science is always open to where the evidence takes them. So you have to be close minded to be an atheist. Atheists have already made their decision they have decided to reject the truth and so they reject science. They reject all the evidence for God and they reject the proven benefits to a belief in God. Very very few people are atheists, at least in this country. Most people believe in God. The honest person says I am not convinced so I cannot say with certainty that there is or is not a God. But I could be persuaded if you present scientific evidence for God. So they show a willingness to go where the evidence takes them. A lot of people are not willing to go where the evidence takes them and that is why Max Planck says science advances one funeral at a time. New beliefs take over when the old beliefs die off.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Every generation since the time of Christ was sure they lived in the "end times". :)
At the time of Christ they were waiting for the temple to be destroyed in 70 ad. That is a shaddow and a type of what will take place at the end of this age. Now the Body of Christ is the temple.
 
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Michael

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I do not think it is a generalization at all. Science is agnostic, that is the honest position because science is always open to where the evidence takes them. So you have to be close minded to be an atheist. Atheists have already made their decision they have decided to reject the truth and so they reject science.

FYI, only "strong" atheists have formed an actual opinion on the topic of God. "Weak atheists" (far more common) simply withhold belief either for or against the concept of a God. They simply see the problem as a "lack of evidence" (either direction), and they don't form a strong opinion in either direction.

They reject all the evidence for God and they reject the proven benefits to a belief in God.

It's true that they tend to subjectively dismiss any and all claims of "evidence" with respect to the topic of God based upon a purely "empirical" standard of evidence, but they almost never apply such a standard toward "science" or any scientific theories. There is often a double standard in play as it relates to 'evidence', I'll grant you that much.

Very very few people are atheists, at least in this country. Most people believe in God. The honest person says I am not convinced so I cannot say with certainty that there is or is not a God.

Weak atheists fall into that category and consider their position to be "more honest" than yours actually. Your argument would really only apply to strong atheists, and few if any atheists I've met associated themselves internally with strong atheism. They may say things from time to time to reveal such biases, but generally speaking most atheists are simply weak atheists and they simply don't claim to know the answer one way or another.

But I could be persuaded if you present scientific evidence for God. So they show a willingness to go where the evidence takes them. A lot of people are not willing to go where the evidence takes them and that is why Max Planck says science advances one funeral at a time. New beliefs take over when the old beliefs die off.

The problem is that even the concept of "evidence" becomes highly subjective, and down right "personal" in some instances. Atheists tend to want to see "empirical" evidence of God, but they don't typically apply that same rigid (empirical) standard of evidence toward other branches of "science".
 
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Michael

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At the time of Christ they were waiting for the temple to be destroyed in 70 ad. That is a shaddow and a type of what will take place at the end of this age. Now the Body of Christ is the temple.

Even still, lots of generations have come and gone, and the Earth just keeps on spinning. :) I'm not going to "assume" anything about the "end of times". Even the Bible explains that no one will know the day or the time of such a thing.
 
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katerinah1947

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Do the atheist even see how dishonest they are? They are a very vocal group and they try to win as many converts as they can. That is why creationists need to do a better job then they have. So we can defend the faith. Esp in this day and age of apostasy when we are so very close to the end of the Church Age and the Holy Spirit dispensation or the Age of Grace is soon coming to an end.

Hi,

Do Christians see how dishonest they actually are?

Dishonest, on the way to being as honest as one can be, is in all humans.

Do, you want a test for that, a dangerous test?

Please say no.

If I give you the test that was used on me, carried out properly, you will have problems.

Being a researcher, Death and Injury, is not thought of when experimenting all the time, until after the death or injury. Even then, it is worth it.

I was injured, in that work. I needed to do it a second time for a result. Most, everybody on the planet, got to me, and asked me to please not do that work again.

That, friends family and acquaintances, if informed ahead of time, will allow you some protections, and to come out of the test with less or no trouble.

No one was informed, in my case, on the first experiment. That was a requirement of that, experiment.

I have done that work a third time now. That time I was asked. And, before dealing with normal people again, I was told to stop, and I did.

It was a job requirement. I was in a special job, and doing that work again, allowed me to be more perfect in that work. My Boss, asked me. I complied. When the job was ending, A message came to me to stop, and I did.

LOVE,
 
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Subduction Zone

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Do the atheist even see how dishonest they are? They are a very vocal group and they try to win as many converts as they can. That is why creationists need to do a better job then they have. So we can defend the faith. Esp in this day and age of apostasy when we are so very close to the end of the Church Age and the Holy Spirit dispensation or the Age of Grace is soon coming to an end.

If a person is correct in his beliefs of course he tries to convince others. How does atheists helping those that are ignorant of science and logic make them dishonest? Meanwhile Christians have been claiming that the end is near for almost 2,000 years. It is getting more than a bit tiresome.
 
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joshua 1 9

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How does atheists helping those that are ignorant of science and logic make them dishonest?
Atheists try to deceive people into thinking that science endorses their atheistic beliefs and the truth is that real science does not want to be associated with atheism anymore then they want to be associated with YEC Creationism. That is why we use the word Hijacked when we talk about how Atheism tries to use science to promote their agenda. Science is in the middle, science is agnostic. They are not theistic or atheistic. Science tends to lean toward theism because they can show that there are benefits to theism and a belief in God. So no mater how slight the scale it tipping science is more theistic then it is atheistic. It is just that atheists try to deceive people into thinking that science supports their agenda and that simply is not true.
 
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