Does opinion superceed Scripture

[Dannager]

If Jesus is the living Word, and the written Word was inspired of the Holy Spirit about God and Jesus...I don't see how the Bible is indeed not a part of the Trinity!

That doesn't make any sense at all, and borders on the heretical.

 

[ebia]

To believe that God couldn't and or wouldn't protect His Word from misinterpretation or errors is just mind bogling to me.

Given the number of incompatible interpretations of various facets of the bible, to argue that God doesn't allow people to misinterpret it seems rather foolish and is certainly unsustainable.

Why would He make it where we couldn't tell what part of the Bible to believe and what part not to believe?

It's not a question of what bits to believe and what to not believe, but how to go about learning from (all of) it.
That's not an easy or infallible process not because there is anything 'wrong' with the bible or with God, but because what we are called to learn is so complex. If God made the bible simple to use it wouldn't be able to do its job.

As so many have said He is a God of Love, so He is going to not make it clear to us what is right and what is wrong?

What the bible is meant to teach cannot be reduced to what is clear and simple.

God is not the author of confusion, the Bible says, but that could be one of those misinterpretated scriptures, I guess.

Maybe, maybe not, but certainly one of the most abused verses.

 

[ebia]

This verse seems to make it more clear, that I quoted previously:

Psalms 138:2


2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name
For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.

I'm not at all convinced that 'your word' in that verse refers to the bible (leaving aside the problems of pulling proof-texts from something as poetic as a psalm).

 

[ebia]

If Jesus is the living Word, and the written Word was inspired of the Holy Spirit about God and Jesus...I don't see how the Bible is indeed not a part of the Trinity!

I trust you are not serious.

Such a statement would be

 

[davedjy]

I'm not at all convinced that 'your word' in that verse refers to the bible (leaving aside the problems of pulling proof-texts from something as poetic as a psalm).

The Word of God IS the Bible...there was no Bible written at that time. If you ever have doubts about a verse, or Scripture, it would be helpful for you to use http://www.blueletterbible.org It is free to use, but you can see what is said, and it will shed light on the confusion. This gives you the original Hebrew and Greek text, and has a concordance, as well as other things.

Here is the word in it's context, look at all the verse contexts below that it is used in, and it means "God's word", in every case.

One cross reference is from Deu 33:9 with the same Hebrew word, "Imrah":
1) utterance, speech, word
a) word of God, the Torah

Deuteronomy 33:9 (NIV):

9 He said of his father and mother,
'I have no regard for them.'
He did not recognize his brothers
or acknowledge his own children,
but he watched over your word
and guarded your covenant.



http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Psa&chapter=138&verse=2&strongs=0565&page=

 

[savedandhappy1]

Given the number of incompatible interpretations of various facets of the bible, to argue that God doesn't allow people to misinterpret it seems rather foolish and is certainly unsustainable.

There are many translations out there that are, in my opinion, not good, but God can turn anything to good. I believe if we seek the true word and the true meaning we will be able to know the truth.​

You don't believe that God would be sure that His true followers were learning about Him from a Bible that spoke of His ways and will? When we are talking about misinterpretations are we talking about things that don't change the meaning of the Word or things that do change it or both?​

Have you ever read a certain passage in the Bible and then years later, for whatever reason prayerfully read it again? Were you amazed at how for the first time you saw some meaning in those scriptures that you hadn't noticed before, and how it answered something that was going on in your life right then? It is called the Living Word for a reason. Tho written so long ago it is still relevant today.​

It's not a question of what bits to believe and what to not believe, but how to go about learning from (all of) it.​

That's not an easy or infallible process not because there is anything 'wrong' with the bible or with God, but because what we are called to learn is so complex. If God made the bible simple to use it wouldn't be able to do its job.​

Could you please explain how the Bible wouldn't be able to do its job, if it was simple to use, thanks.​

We all learn/grow at different rates in the Lord, but don't you believe that if we prayerfully seek understanding, wisdom and discernment from the Word we will receive it?​

What the bible is meant to teach cannot be reduced to what is clear and simple.

Sorry must not of had enough coffee yet, could you explain, please.​

Maybe, maybe not, but certainly one of the most abused verses.

Is not all the issues, abortion, homosexuality, etc., causing division and confusion in the body of Christ today? Could you please explain how you feel I am abusing that verse, because I would never want to misuse or abuse any of the Word. Thanks.​

 

[savedandhappy1]

Double post sorry.​

 

[Chie]

I was looking through the forum, and noticed all of the opinions and advice given, that just plain out is not of the scripture.
Are we to rely more on our own peceptions of morality over those that the scriptures give us?

No. But many do. Fashioning a self made God in their understanding, disregarding the scriptures.

 

[chris777]

It is a common principle repeated throughout the Bible.
The more man drifts away from God, the less His instructions will matter.
The fact that we see this demonstrated and see what replaces it only reveals what is in the heart.
You probably know this part - out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.

It's sad though, isn't it. To see what clearly isn't right being lifted up as good. I'm glad that you seem not to like it, you shouldn't.

I think its all prophetic, the falling away from the truth, itching ears heaping teachers to scratch them, calling good evil and evil Good.

What really bothers me, is the sheer volume of "Christians" Quickly, eagerly , and wholy embracing so much of it, its heartbreaking.

 

[chris777]

IMO, (LOL) I see many give "opinions" that are contrary to God's Word. The person who does this should heed the warnings of Jesus Himself for it is better that that person have a milestone around his neck and be cast into the sea than to cause one of His "little ones" to stumble. That's enough fear of God in me to make sure that my Words speak only what thus saith the Lord.

another thread I started was how the fear of God has been replaced with mere respect, when respect while fitting in some ways is wholly insubstantal, to the Fear of the Lord.

 

[4Christ2]

That doesn't make any sense at all, and borders on the heretical.

Things of God often don't make "sense". Scripture is the written Word of God. Anything else (any other gospel)...including opinion conytary to scripture, is what is heresy. So maybe the Bible is not a part of the Trinity (Godhead), but it certainly is a product. Would you agree?

 

[chris777]

Should one ignore their own opinions, and ideas and what they feel in their heart is right, for someone else''s interpretation of the Bible?

That makes you God, because you define what is moral or not by your opinion.

You could have a whole number of different beople feel in their heart something is right, and they all dissagree with each other, and they all be wrong .

 

[ebia]

The Word of God IS the Bible...there was no Bible written at that time.

Kind of contradicted yourself there.

At best that's an interpretation, at worst an extra-biblical opinion.

 

[chris777]

Maybe I should restate again. I think God can make special exceptions. These exceptions do not endanger what is in the Bible.

Really, I understand the fact I have never seen a case of God allowing something defined by the Bible as not being allowed, but I do not say that one cannot exist.

Wait, now that I think of this, there is one case which still applies today. The eating of unclean meat. God once said you could not eat it, but it is also said later on He said it is allowed to eat it, so there is a case where God controdicted His word. And as such, a future case may be possible. Though the existance of a fact in the past does not prove a fact in the future, the existance does prove the possibility of the fact. Or something like that.

the problem is God made a provision, not man, He made the exception, not us.
I commited adultry, under the delusion, of "my circumstance is special, and therefore not wrong because my situation was unique, and even though it was one of the few things I knew of Scripture at the time, I was foolish the think I was exempt, much less telling someone else that their situation is above scriptural mandate.

I can tell you I am still reaping the effects of what I had sewn, and I was divorced 10 years ago.

 

[ebia]

There are many translations out there that are, in my opinion, not good, but God can turn anything to good. I believe if we seek the true word and the true meaning we will be able to know the truth.​

There are an awful lot of Christians out there seeking and coming up with very different answers to some of the questions.

You don't believe that God would be sure that His true followers were learning about Him from a Bible that spoke of His ways and will?

I never suggested that the bible didn't "speak of His ways and will". But the way in which it does that is complex, because the topic it has to teach us about is complex, and because God chooses to work through, not avoid, the realities of this world.

When we are talking about misinterpretations are we talking about things that don't change the meaning of the Word or things that do change it or both?

You introduced the term into the conversation, perhaps you had better define it.

Have you ever read a certain passage in the Bible and then years later, for whatever reason prayerfully read it again? Were you amazed at how for the first time you saw some meaning in those scriptures that you hadn't noticed before, and how it answered something that was going on in your life right then? It is called the Living Word for a reason. Tho written so long ago it is still relevant today.

Could you please explain how the Bible wouldn't be able to do its job, if it was simple to use, thanks.

Because the task - learning about God and our relationships with him and each other - is complex and not reduceble to simple answers.

We all learn/grow at different rates in the Lord, but don't you believe that if we prayerfully seek understanding, wisdom and discernment from the Word we will receive it?

Yes and no. The reality is more complex than that. We all also need the guidance of others and people to bounce our thoughts off. We also need to listen to the other ways the Word of God speaks to us through Creation, through the image of God in each other, etc. And, in the end, we still end up in a world where sincere Christians end up with different, apparently mutually incompatible, understandings of complex questions. It does nobody any favours to brush that under the carpet.

Sorry must not of had enough coffee yet, could you explain, please.

You can't have easy answers for hard lessons.

Is not all the issues, abortion, homosexuality, etc., causing division and confusion in the body of Christ today?

There have always been controversial topics in the Church. Acts and the epistles describe quite graphically the heated nature of some of those of the 1st century.

Unity in the chuch isn't meant to mean that everyone is supposed to agree on everything - if we did we would all stop learning and growing, we would stop being transformed by Christ. Unity should lie in whether we can handle the disagreements in mutual love and respect while a consensus works itself out (which might take a few years or might take centuries).

Could you please explain how you feel I am abusing that verse, because I would never want to misuse or abuse any of the Word. Thanks.

Firstly it's ripped out of context:

God is a God not of disorder but of peace. As in all the churches of God's holy people, ...

is in the middle of a passage on maintaining order in a church service. It's about how we act in appropriate ways in church. You can extend that to how we act in appropriate ways to each other in broader contexts (a refresher on "love one another as I have loved you...", but to use it to suggest that God expects us to agree on every doctine and has made the bible unambiguous to achieve that is "proof texting" at its worst.

 

[ebia]

You could have a whole number of different beople feel in their heart something is right, and they all dissagree with each other, and they all be wrong .

You could have a whole number of different beople (sic) beleive that the bible says something is right, and they all dissagree with each other, and they all be wrong

 

[davedjy]

Kind of contradicted yourself there.

At best that's an interpretation, at worst an extra-biblical opinion.

No, I haven't contradicted myself in the least. I believe they are one and the same thing.

 

[WalkingforHim]

That makes you God, because you define what is moral or not by your opinion.

Defining your own morality does not, in any way, make you some sort of "god".

You could have a whole number of different beople feel in their heart something is right, and they all dissagree with each other, and they all be wrong .

As Ebia said, you can have different people thinking the Scripture says different things, and they all be wrong.

 

[davedjy]

Defining your own morality does not, in any way, make you some sort of "god".

It does in a sense, because you are making up the principles that govern you, by the idea of your own logic and what makes sense to you, and what you believe is fair.

Driver: "Officer, it wasn't my fault, I was thinking about what I have to do today",

Officer: "Well, do you believe it is fair that I give you a ticket for driving 115 MPH on this highway here?"

Driver: "no, I don't, it's not fair at all"

Offficer: "go right along, you are the one who ultimately knows how fair things are, since it is YOU we are talking about"

 

[4Christ2]

How could ALL be wrong defining a scripture. Isn't there always a right and a wrong? And who defines "wrong" anyway? Jesus Himself says there is a way that is narrow and a way that is wide. It is either one way or the other. So what could between narrow and wide?