• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Does Nehemiah 9:14 teach that the Sabbath was made known through Moses, not from the beginning?

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
What do you think about @ralliann's point that according to Exodus 31:16, it was specifically a covenant with Israel
@ralliann

If God has given instructions to Israel for how to have a relationship with Him, and if it is our goal to have a relationship with God, then we should also follow those instructions, and it would be missing the point to focus on who those instructions were given to rather than on what they teach us about who they were given by. For example, God's righteousness is eternally the same yesterday, today, and forever, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to express His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant we are under, but as part of the New Covenant, those who do not practice obedience to those instructions are not children of God (1 John 3:10). Furthermore, in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves following the Torah, which is inclusive of God's command to keep the Sabbath holy. So when we do what is righteous or holy or express other aspects of God's nature through our obedience to the Torah, we are experiencing the nature of who God is, or in other words we are growing in a relationship with Him through gaining experiential knowledge of Him. While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to express His nature. Non-believers who aren't under the New Covenant are still obligated to repent from doing what God's law has revealed to be sin, so there is nothing about not being under the Mosaic Covenant that means that we aren't obligated to repent from doing what God's law has revealed to be sin.

—a covenant which, according to Deuteronomy 5:2-4 was not made with Israel's fathers?

If God has made a covenant with us that he didn't make with the ancient Israelites, and the covenant that God made with us includes at least some of the same laws that were previously given in the covenant that He made with the ancient Israelites, then the fact that God made a covenant with the ancient Israelites that he hadn't made with their fathers does not establish that any of its laws were not previously given, and in fact there is much evidence of many of God's laws being followed prior to when they were given at Sinai.

For example, in Genesis 4:7, God told Cain that sin was crouching at the door and that he must master it, which implies that he already knew what sin is and that he must have been given laws in that regard. Furthermore, the penalty for committing murder is death, yet Cain was not given the death penalty, therefore he was not found guilty of murder, but rather his concern for being avenged and with him being given protection shows that he was treated in accordance with what God would command in Deuteronomy 19 for how to treat someone guilty of accidental manslaughter.

Likewise, in Genesis 7:2, Noah was told what to do with clean and unclean animals without being told how to tell the difference, and in 8:20, he knew to offer a clean animal, so he must have already been given laws in that regard. In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Hebrews 11:7, Noah was listed as an example of faith, and in Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God and he was a righteous man, so it was no on accident that what he happened to be doing what righteous, but rather God graciously taught him to obey His laws for how to do what is righteous and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith.

In Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin against God to commit adultery, so it would be wrong to assume that any particular law was not previously given just because it was included as part of a covenant that God made with the Israelites that He hadn't made with their fathers.

Also, what do you think of @Carl Emerson (and @ralliann)'s argument from Hebrews 4:1-11? Does this suggest that our Sabbath rest is different from Israel's?
@Carl Emerson

In Ezekiel 20:13, they did not enter into God's rest because they disobeyed God's commandments, and in specifically mentions that they profaned God's Sabbaths. In Hebrews 3-4, it is also speaking about them not entering into God's rest because they disobeyed God's commandments, so there is nothing about Hebrews 4:1-11 that should be taken as justification for not obeying God's commandments. In Hebrews 4:9, there still remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, and in 4:11, we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience. In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

There are more ways to do what is in accordance or against God's righteousness than are specifically listed by God's law, but God's law is spiritual in that it has always been intended to teach us deeper spiritual principles of which the listed laws are just examples, and which are aspects of God's nature and fruits of the Spirit. For example, God's righteous laws teach us about the spiritual principle of righteousness, so if we correctly understand that spiritual principle, then it will lead us to take physical actions that are examples of that principle in accordance with what God's laws instructs even in situations where God's law does not give a specific instruction. On the other hand, correctly understand a spiritual principle will never lead us away from taking actions that are examples of that principle, so having a correct understanding of the spiritual principle behind the Sabbath is expressed through continuing to keep the 7th day holy in obedience to God's command in accordance with the example that Jesus set for us to follow. If we did on every day what God wants us to do on the Sabbath, then we would do no work, but God also wants us to work. In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments, so keeping the Sabbath holy in obedience to Exodus 20:8-11 is directly connected to how we are to express our love for Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
11,016
6,440
Utah
✟852,447.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Did it matter with Adam? All the days of his life he would eat bread by the sweat of his brow....
3:17 cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; {bring … : Heb. cause to bud }
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Noah...
Ge 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed. {Noah: Gr. Noe: that is Rest, or, Comfort }


No, God rained bread from heaven for them to eat, and on the 6th day two times as much, so they could rest.


No, in David he speaks of another day.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. {Jesus: that is, Joshua }
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. {rest: or, keeping of a sabbath }
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

No, God rained bread from heaven for them to eat, and on the 6th day two times as much, so they could rest.

That's the point ... so they could rest on the 7th ... the Sabbath of the Lord

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (the 7th day of creation)

If keeping the Lord's Sabbath (that he created on the 7th) is not a delight to you .... then no sense of keeping it .... because if not .... then it is a work. That's the way it is with all His laws ..... kept out of love and for no other reason(s).

He said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” Jesus also taught: “Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. “This is the first and great commandment.
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,552
10,400
79
Auckland
✟439,848.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God presently rests in His seventh day.

He invites us to join Him by faith.

If we do according to the invitation in Heb 4 then our rest with Him is permanent.

'Today if you hear His voice' applies every day.

Being in His eternal rest fulfils the command to rest on any particular day.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ralliann
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,204
2,589
✟265,533.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
That's the point ... so they could rest on the 7th ... the Sabbath of the Lord



If keeping the Lord's Sabbath (that he created on the 7th) is not a delight to you .... then no sense of keeping it .... because if not .... then it is a work. That's the way it is with all His laws ..... kept out of love and for no other reason(s).

He said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” Jesus also taught: “Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. “This is the first and great commandment.
It was a shadow.....We who are in Christ are under under a better covenant, based upon better promises.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
11,016
6,440
Utah
✟852,447.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
It was a shadow.....We who are in Christ are under under a better covenant, based upon better promises.

What are the better promises?

In the “old” covenant the people in Exodus 19:8 were the ones making promises God never asked them to make. I don’t need to tell you how worthless man’s promises are. The new covenant is based on better promises because they are God’s promises!

The law was never the problem.

The problem was the people and their worthless promises. Even in the Old Testament we find the new and better covenant when Abraham becomes the father of Isaac, based on God’s promise.

We find the new and better covenant based on better promises in Jeremiah 31:33 when God is promising to write and establish the perfect law in the hearts of men, not by their own power and promises, but by His power and promises.

Everything is fulfilled in Christ .... He is the better promise.

God makes promises and fulfills them, He is the only one who can!

By faith we rest in that God will do all He said He will do.
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,204
2,589
✟265,533.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
What are the better promises?
Ge 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Ge 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
In the “old” covenant the people in Exodus 19:8 were the ones making promises God never asked them to make. I don’t need to tell you how worthless man’s promises are. The new covenant is based on better promises because they are God’s promises!
Yes they are are. Based upon the better promises spoken in the law to Abraham, and Sarah.

The law was never the problem.
No, the promises are right there in the law. To both Jew and Gentile alike.

The problem was the people and their worthless promises.
The problem was the weakness of the covenant of the priestly kingdom.
Even in the Old Testament we find the new and better covenant when Abraham becomes the father of Isaac, based on God’s promise.
He becomes a father of many nations, Kings come from his loins. And Sarah is made a mother of many nations. Through the royal seed promised there.

We find the new and better covenant based on better promises in Jeremiah 31:33 when God is promising to write and establish the perfect law in the hearts of men, not by their own power and promises, but by His power and promises.

Everything is fulfilled in Christ .... He is the better promise.
Yes the royal seed which would come in due time. Which time the nations are made children of this promise. The time of the Gentiles.
God makes promises and fulfills them, He is the only one who can!

By faith we rest in that God will do all He said He will do.
I agree. We all in Christ inherit the blessed promise.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
11,016
6,440
Utah
✟852,447.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Ge 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Ge 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Yes they are are. Based upon the better promises spoken in the law to Abraham, and Sarah.

No, the promises are right there in the law. To both Jew and Gentile alike.


The problem was the weakness of the covenant of the priestly kingdom.

He becomes a father of many nations, Kings come from his loins. And Sarah is made a mother of many nations. Through the royal seed promised there.


Yes the royal seed which would come in due time. Which time the nations are made children of this promise. The time of the Gentiles.

I agree. We all in Christ inherit the blessed promise.

2nd Corinthians 1:20

Amplified Bible
For as many as are the promises of God, in Christ they are [all answered] “Yes.” So through Him we say our “Amen” to the glory of God.

and

AMEN!!! Thank you Jesus!
 
Upvote 0

Torah Keeper

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2013
917
589
Tennessee
✟52,381.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
If the 7th day was declared holy by Yahweh in Genesis 2, what exactly does that mean? How is it holy? How is it different? In order for it to be holy, it had to be kept differently than other days by Adam and Eve. Else it would just be another day of no importance, making Yahweh's words of no effect. It is holy in Genesis 2 or it is not. Nothing to do with Moses who came thousands of years later.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eleos1954
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Moses law was added (additional) 430 after the covenant made with Abraham.
Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
What law before?
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Spoken of here..
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Which God would see if they would keep here.

Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove <05254> them, whether they will walk in
my law, or no

The law of faith...
Ge 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt <05254> Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am

Confirmed before with an oath... making it immutable

Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto
the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel confirmed it by an oath:

After his testing (his faith) obtained the promises as immutable.
Ge 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
An oath for confirmation.....
Ge 22:16 And said,
By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Which confirmation,

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

So while we can be sure of Gods faithfulness to keep the oath, as it cannot be disannulled. It also cannot be added to.
The covenant at Sinai cannot not dissanul the promises, and the covenant cannot be added to. It is Immutable.

The covenant made before in Christ....

Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed,
which is Christ.
The sabbath commands were a testing of their faith. The law of faith cannot be disannuled by a latter covenant, nor added to.

The Sabbath is a command and sign of Horeb/ also called Sinai.

What existed from the beginning was the law of faith........

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), which means that they existed long before they were given at Sinai. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with the law of faith, so works of the law are of works, which he contrasted in Romans 3:31 by saying that our faith upholds God's law, so it is the law of faith. Likewise, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so doing good works in obedience to God is what faith looks like. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. I could go on, but the short of it is that every example of someone living by faith in the Bible is also an example of someone living in obedience to God's will, such as those listed in Hebrews 11, so obedience to God's law is of faith in contrast with works of the law, which is not of faith.

In Genesis 18:19, God experientially knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's ways by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to Abraham all that He has promised, namely in Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to his offspring all these lands, and in his offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed because Abraham obeyed God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by making known to him His ways that he might experientially know Him, and Israel too, and there are many verses that describe God's law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. God's law is how the offspring of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's ways (Psalms 119:1-3), so the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham is by his offspring being a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law, which has its ultimate fulfillment on Jesus, who was sent to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,204
2,589
✟265,533.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), which means that they existed long before they were given at Sinai. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with the law of faith, so works of the law are of works, which he contrasted in Romans 3:31 by saying that our faith upholds God's law, so it is the law of faith. Likewise, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so doing good works in obedience to God is what faith looks like. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. I could go on, but the short of it is that every example of someone living by faith in the Bible is also an example of someone living in obedience to God's will, such as those listed in Hebrews 11, so obedience to God's law is of faith in contrast with works of the law, which is not of faith.

In Genesis 18:19, God experientially knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's ways by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to Abraham all that He has promised, namely in Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to his offspring all these lands, and in his offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed because Abraham obeyed God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by making known to him His ways that he might experientially know Him, and Israel too, and there are many verses that describe God's law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. God's law is how the offspring of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's ways (Psalms 119:1-3), so the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham is by his offspring being a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law, which has its ultimate fulfillment on Jesus, who was sent to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).
N/A doble post
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,204
2,589
✟265,533.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), which means that they existed long before they were given at Sinai.
It is clear from scripture the law was given by Moses. And it is equally clear it was it was given at a later time.
In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with the law of faith
Again Abraham is mentioned. Moses law was later by over three hundred years.
, so works of the law are of works, which he contrasted in Romans 3:31 by saying that our faith upholds God's law,
Yes, The promises made to Abraham are the law! And we are a fulfillment of it Jew and Gentile alike. In the Royal seed Jesus......
HEAR THE LAW..... Torah teacher Paul...
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
TWO COVENANTS
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

We who believe indeed do in fact uphold the law
Sarah our mother......of nations and kings...

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
It is clear from scripture the law was given by Moses. And it is equally clear it was it was given at a later time.

I didn't contest that the law was given through Moses at a later time, but what I am saying is that the law existed eternally before it was eventually given to Moses. In other words, it has eternally been against God's righteousness to commit adultery regardless of when God chose to command against it. Sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so there were no actions that became righteous or sinful when the law was given, but rather the law revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that.

Again Abraham is mentioned. Moses law was later by over three hundred years.

God was gracious to both Abraham and Moses by teaching them how to walk in His ways in obedience to His law.

Yes, The promises made to Abraham are the law! And we are a fulfillment of it Jew and Gentile alike. In the Royal seed Jesus......
HEAR THE LAW..... Torah teacher Paul...
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
TWO COVENANTS
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

We who believe indeed do in fact uphold the law
Sarah our mother......of nations and kings...

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Acts 3:25-26 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your offspring shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’ 26 God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you by turning every one of you from your wickedness.”

The above verses clearly cite Jesus as blessing us by turning every one of us from our wickedness as being the fulfillment of that promise, and the transgression of God's law is what defines wickedness. God's ways are the ways in which He expresses different aspects of His nature (2 Samuel 22:21-37) and the Kingdom of God is where the nature of God is multiplied, so it wasn't until we got to Abraham that God found something who was busy multiplying the nature of God by teaching his children and those of His household how to walk in God's ways, which is why God could make the promise to Abraham to multiply his offspring. A chip off the old block is someone who has the same nature or character as their father and this is the sense that we are children of Abraham and how we are being a blessing to the nations by teaching them to turn from their wickedness and how to walk in God's ways. So the promise is God's law in the sense that it is what happens when the nature of God is multiplied through our obedience to it, and God was teaching Abraham how to be multiplied and how to be a blessing by teaching him how to walk in His ways in obedience to His law so that he would teach his children and those of his household how to do that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,204
2,589
✟265,533.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), which means that they existed long before they were given at Sinai. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with the law of faith, so works of the law are of works, which he contrasted in Romans 3:31 by saying that our faith upholds God's law, so it is the law of faith. Likewise, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so doing good works in obedience to God is what faith looks like. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. I could go on, but the short of it is that every example of someone living by faith in the Bible is also an example of someone living in obedience to God's will, such as those listed in Hebrews 11, so obedience to God's law is of faith in contrast with works of the law, which is not of faith.

In Genesis 18:19, God experientially knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's ways by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to Abraham all that He has promised, namely in Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to his offspring all these lands, and in his offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed because Abraham obeyed God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by making known to him His ways that he might experientially know Him, and Israel too, and there are many verses that describe God's law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. God's law is how the offspring of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's ways (Psalms 119:1-3), so the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham is by his offspring being a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law, which has its ultimate fulfillment on Jesus, who was sent to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).
This is rabbinic Judaism (pharisee's) not the apostles.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
This is rabbinic Judaism (pharisee's) not the apostles.

I cited many verses to show where I have derived my position, so if you disagree, then please explain why you think that I have misunderstood those verses instead of just giving it a label. I haven't said anything along the lines of rabbinic Judaism or that was contrary to the apostles, so it is not clear to me why you gave it that label.
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,204
2,589
✟265,533.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Why do people ignore Genesis 2? The answer is right there. Moses didn't invent the Sabbath.
Who said he did. Nobody I have seen has said that. It was a shadow of the true Sabbath in Christ. Just like many things were in Moses law.
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,204
2,589
✟265,533.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I cited many verses to show where I have derived my position, so if you disagree, then please explain why you think that I have misunderstood those verses instead of just giving it a label. I haven't said anything along the lines of rabbinic Judaism or that was contrary to the apostles, so it is not clear to me why you gave it that label.
I did as well present Paul's teaching of Torah. As for Pharasaic Judaism, This is where modern judaism comes from after the temple was destroyed. They don't need a temple. Tikkun olam (repairing of the world) is what I am hearing from you. Repairing of the world by everyone keeping Mosaic law.
 
Upvote 0

Kilk1

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2019
609
196
Washington State
✟111,796.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Okay, so here are my thoughts. Since all this was new to me, I decided to take last Saturday off (I usually have Sundays and Mondays off, but my schedule was flexible enough for me to change it) just in case I've been wrong all this time. That said, after putting a lot of thought into the matter, I seem to see three arguments favoring the view that the Sabbath is a Mosaic law, not a universal law for all mankind. I don't want to be wrong, though, and so I started a new thread to have my case tested by those who see things differently. @eleos1954, @ralliann, @Torah Keeper, @Soyeong, and anyone else who's interested, please see the link below:

The Sabbath: Universal law or Mosaic shadow?

Thanks,
Kilk1
 
Upvote 0

pescador

Wise old man
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,779
✟498,934.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Hello! Some say that the Sabbath is an eternal law that was practiced by Adam and Eve and should still be practiced now under the New Testament. Others say that it was a temporal law that started with the time of Moses and ended under the New Testament with Christ. With this in mind, I'd like to consider Nehemiah 9:5-15, which lists a brief chronology of God's people from creation to Moses, emphasizing all that God had done. (The verses following show the proud, disobedient reaction of the people.) While God Himself rested on the seventh day in Genesis 2:2-3, Nehemiah 9 doesn't mention the Sabbath as being "made known" until verse 14, which is connected with the time of Moses.

Would Nehemiah 9:14 suggest that the Sabbath wasn't made known for mankind to practice in the times of Genesis, as some have thought, but that it rather was made known during the time of Moses? Thanks!

"You made known to them your holy Sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." God made the Sabbath known to them, but He created the Sabbath on the seventh day. It became a commandment of God when God spoke to Moses.
 
Upvote 0