Does Nehemiah 9:14 teach that the Sabbath was made known through Moses, not from the beginning?

[Kilk1]

Hello! Some say that the Sabbath is an eternal law that was practiced by Adam and Eve and should still be practiced now under the New Testament. Others say that it was a temporal law that started with the time of Moses and ended under the New Testament with Christ. With this in mind, I'd like to consider Nehemiah 9:5-15, which lists a brief chronology of God's people from creation to Moses, emphasizing all that God had done. (The verses following show the proud, disobedient reaction of the people.) While God Himself rested on the seventh day in Genesis 2:2-3, Nehemiah 9 doesn't mention the Sabbath as being "made known" until verse 14, which is connected with the time of Moses.

Would Nehemiah 9:14 suggest that the Sabbath wasn't made known for mankind to practice in the times of Genesis, as some have thought, but that it rather was made known during the time of Moses? Thanks!

 

[eleos1954]

Hello! Some say that the Sabbath is an eternal law that was practiced by Adam and Eve and should still be practiced now under the New Testament. Others say that it was a temporal law that started with the time of Moses and ended under the New Testament with Christ. With this in mind, I'd like to consider Nehemiah 9:5-15, which lists a brief chronology of God's people from creation to Moses, emphasizing all that God had done. (The verses following show the proud, disobedient reaction of the people.) While God Himself rested on the seventh day in Genesis 2:2-3, Nehemiah 9 doesn't mention the Sabbath as being "made known" until verse 14, which is connected with the time of Moses.

Would Nehemiah 9:14 suggest that the Sabbath wasn't made known for mankind to practice in the times of Genesis, as some have thought, but that it rather was made known during the time of Moses? Thanks!

would God create a Holy day and then not let people know what day it is?

In the 10 commandments its says to keep the Sabbath Holy.... ie keep something that was already there .... referring back to creation.

No other days made Holy by God ... other than the 7th day. A day put in place before any jews .... made for mankind ... so says Jesus.

 

[Kilk1]

would God create a Holy day and then not let people know what day it is?

In the 10 commandments its says to keep the Sabbath Holy.... ie keep something that was already there .... referring back to creation.

No other days made Holy by God ... other than the 7th day. A day put in place before any jews .... made for mankind ... so says Jesus.

Well, if it was already made known beforehand, why does Nehemiah 9:14 say it was made known by Moses? Again, Nehemiah 9:5-15 lists a brief chronology of God's people from creation to Moses, emphasizing all that God had done, and puts the Sabbath with the law of Moses—not with creation (v. 6) or even with Abraham (vv. 7-8), but with the law of Moses (v. 14).

 

[eleos1954]

Well, if it was already made known beforehand, why does Nehemiah 9:14 say it was made known by Moses? Again, Nehemiah 9:5-15 lists a brief chronology of God's people from creation to Moses, emphasizing all that God had done, and puts the Sabbath with the law of Moses—not with creation (v. 6) or even with Abraham (vv. 7-8), but with the law of Moses (v. 14).

ok ... then why keep any of the commandments at all?

The bible is a continuous story. Depending on the focus of the writer some things may or may not be included in their specific writings. Need to take His Word as a whole.

Anyplace else where God changed anything He originally created?

Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus 16:29

See, for that the LORD hath given (past tense) you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Follow in the steps of Jesus .... He is our example in all things and is Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus kept the 7th day .... not because He was a Jew .... because He was God in the flesh. In fact the Jews had profaned His Sabbath .... made "rules" about it that were never intended to be.

Debates over it I know .... but I think it is wonderful He made a special day to rest from our labors and spend time with Him.

Isaiah 58:13-14
"If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the LORD honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the LORD has spoken."

It's a delight.

 

[ralliann]

would God create a Holy day and then not let people know what day it is?

Did it matter with Adam? All the days of his life he would eat bread by the sweat of his brow....
3:17 cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; {bring … : Heb. cause to bud }
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Noah...
Ge 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed. {Noah: Gr. Noe: that is Rest, or, Comfort }

In the 10 commandments its says to keep the Sabbath Holy.... ie keep something that was already there .... referring back to creation.

No, God rained bread from heaven for them to eat, and on the 6th day two times as much, so they could rest.

No other days made Holy by God ... other than the 7th day. A day put in place before any jews .... made for mankind ... so says Jesus.

No, in David he speaks of another day.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. {Jesus: that is, Joshua }
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. {rest: or, keeping of a sabbath }
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 

[Kilk1]

ok ... then why keep any of the commandments at all?

The bible is a continuous story. Depending on the focus of the writer some things may or may not be included in their specific writings. Need to take His Word as a whole.

Anyplace else where God changed anything He originally created?

Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus 16:29

See, for that the LORD hath given (past tense) you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Follow in the steps of Jesus .... He is our example in all things and is Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus kept the 7th day .... not because He was a Jew .... because He was God in the flesh. In fact the Jews had profaned His Sabbath .... made "rules" about it that were never intended to be.

Debates over it I know .... but I think it is wonderful He made a special day to rest from our labors and spend time with Him.

Isaiah 58:13-14
"If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the LORD honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the LORD has spoken."

It's a delight.

To answer the question, "Anyplace else where God changed anything He originally created?" we are no longer required to put those who break the Sabbath to death, are we (Exodus 31:14)? In Colossians 2:13-14, Paul says that Jesus nailed the old commandments to the cross. He then concludes, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival [yearly] or a new moon [monthly] or sabbaths [weekly], which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (vv. 16-17, NKJV, words in brackets mine). Wouldn't this suggest that the weekly sabbaths, monthly holidays, and yearly festivals are not bound upon Christians? If we must keep the Sabbath today, is it sinful to work on Saturday?

 

[Kilk1]

Did it matter with Adam? All the days of his life he would eat bread by the sweat of his brow....
3:17 cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; {bring … : Heb. cause to bud }
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Noah...
Ge 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed. {Noah: Gr. Noe: that is Rest, or, Comfort }


No, God rained bread from heaven for them to eat, and on the 6th day two times as much, so they could rest.


No, in David he speaks of another day.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. {Jesus: that is, Joshua }
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. {rest: or, keeping of a sabbath }
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Interesting. Are you saying that Hebrews 4 is a fulfillment of the Sabbath?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Interesting. Are you saying that Hebrews 4 is a fulfillment of the Sabbath?

That is the way I see it...

 

[ralliann]

Interesting. Are you saying that Hebrews 4 is a fulfillment of the Sabbath?

I am not sure I know what you mean by a fulfillment of the Sabbath. What Hebrews is speaking of is when Joshua brought them into the land. Which Moses said they had not yet come to the rest and inheritance.
De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
The tribes given their inheritance by Moses on the other side of the Jordon could not rest in their inheritance until they went in with their brethren, and helped them get their inheritance.
Jos 1:12 And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to half the tribe of Manasseh, spake Joshua, saying,
13 Remember the word which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, saying, The LORD your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land.
14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and help them; {armed: Heb. marshalled by five }
15 Until the LORD have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the LORD your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the LORD’S servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising.

 

[Kilk1]

That is the way I see it...

Thanks for weighing in! Would that serve as an argument against needing to practice the Sabbath under the New Testament? Has it been fulfilled according to this passage?

 

[Kilk1]

I am not sure I know what you mean by a fulfillment of the Sabbath. What Hebrews is speaking of is when Joshua brought them into the land. Which Moses said they had not yet come to the rest and inheritance.
De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
The tribes given their inheritance by Moses on the other side of the Jordon could not rest in their inheritance until they went in with their brethren, and helped them get their inheritance.
Jos 1:12 And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to half the tribe of Manasseh, spake Joshua, saying,
13 Remember the word which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, saying, The LORD your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land.
14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and help them; {armed: Heb. marshalled by five }
15 Until the LORD have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the LORD your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the LORD’S servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising.

I was wondering if you were using this passage against the position that we must keep the Sabbath today. Is that your point, or is it something else? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[Kilk1]

Since the Sabbath was observed on the seventh day, another way to word the question is, "Are Christians, like Jews, required not to work on Saturdays?"

 

[ralliann]

I was wondering if you were using this passage against the position that we must keep the Sabbath today. Is that your point, or is it something else? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

My position is we have a Sabbath. So the Sabbath rest does not need to be saturday.

 

[Torah Keeper]

The most obvious answer is the Hebrews forgot about the Sabbath because they were idol worshipping pagans, for the most part.

This is why Yahweh uses the word "remember". Remember the Sabbath. This is the only one of the Ten Commandments with the word "remember". So don't forget.

The Sabbath was already a holy day for thousands of years before Moses.

Genesis 2

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks for weighing in! Would that serve as an argument against needing to practice the Sabbath under the New Testament? Has it been fulfilled according to this passage?

Yes for sure - folks don't seem to understand that entering God's Sabbath Rest and is to enter the seventh day of creation with Him in timelessness, resting from works and enjoying Sabbath peace every day.

I hate to think how many are being robbed of this special gift by a theology of works.

When in this sabbath rest - our efforts, when in His purpose, are motivated by the Love of Jesus and are no longer burdensome.

 

[ralliann]

The most obvious answer is the Hebrews forgot about the Sabbath because they were idol worshipping pagans, for the most part.

This is why Yahweh uses the word "remember". Remember the Sabbath. This is the only one of the Ten Commandments with the word "remember". So don't forget.

The Sabbath was already a holy day for thousands of years before Moses.

Genesis 2

The sabbath was for a perpetual covenant with the Children of Israel......

Ex 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

It is clear It was not a covenant made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Deut 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

 

[Soyeong]

Hello! Some say that the Sabbath is an eternal law that was practiced by Adam and Eve and should still be practiced now under the New Testament. Others say that it was a temporal law that started with the time of Moses and ended under the New Testament with Christ. With this in mind, I'd like to consider Nehemiah 9:5-15, which lists a brief chronology of God's people from creation to Moses, emphasizing all that God had done. (The verses following show the proud, disobedient reaction of the people.) While God Himself rested on the seventh day in Genesis 2:2-3, Nehemiah 9 doesn't mention the Sabbath as being "made known" until verse 14, which is connected with the time of Moses.

Would Nehemiah 9:14 suggest that the Sabbath wasn't made known for mankind to practice in the times of Genesis, as some have thought, but that it rather was made known during the time of Moses? Thanks!

Hello,

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore the way to testify about God's righteousness is also eternal (Psalms 119:160). So for example, it has always been against God's righteousness to commit adultery regardless of when God first commanded laws against doing that, which is why sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so likewise the way to testify about God's holiness has always existed regardless of when God commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath holy. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which straightforwardly includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so the only way that laws for how to be holy as God is holy could be ended is if God's eternal holiness has ended. Keeping the Sabbath holy testifies that there is a Creator who created the world in six days, who rested on the 7th, who is holy, and who interacts with His creation to save His people out of bondage, so if these things are true, then we would still be obligated to live in a way that testifies about their truth by keeping the 7th day holy even if God had never commanded anyone to do that. We would still be obligated to obey God's commands even if He had never made any covenants with man, so it's God's sovereignty that is the source of our obligation to testify about His nature, while the giving of His commands simply informs us of what we have always been obligated to do.

 

[Kilk1]

The most obvious answer is the Hebrews forgot about the Sabbath because they were idol worshipping pagans, for the most part.

This is why Yahweh uses the word "remember". Remember the Sabbath. This is the only one of the Ten Commandments with the word "remember". So don't forget.

The Sabbath was already a holy day for thousands of years before Moses.

Genesis 2

Could the command to remember the Sabbath simply mean to observe it? In other words, didn't they remember the Sabbath by keeping it each time it came around? It might mean more than simply forgetting about it.

 

[Kilk1]

Hello,

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore the way to testify about God's righteousness is also eternal (Psalms 119:160). So for example, has always been God's righteousness to commit adultery regardless of when God first commanded laws against doing that, which is why sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so likewise the way to testify about God's holiness has always existed regardless of when God commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath holy. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which straightforwardly includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so the only way that laws for how to be holy as God is holy could be ended is if God's eternal holiness has ended. Keeping the Sabbath holy testifies that there is a Creator who created the world in six days, who rested on the 7th, who is holy, and who interacts with His creation to save His people out of bondage, so if these things are true, then we would still be obligated to live in a way that testifies about their truth by keeping the 7th day holy even if God had never commanded anyone to do that. We would still be obligated to obey God's commands even if He had never made any covenants with man, so it's God's sovereignty that is the source of our obligation to testify about His nature, while the giving of His commands simply informs us of what we have always been obligated to do.

What do you think about @ralliann's point that according to Exodus 31:16, it was specifically a covenant with Israel—a covenant which, according to Deuteronomy 5:2-4 was not made with Israel's fathers?

Also, what do you think of @Carl Emerson (and @ralliann)'s argument from Hebrews 4:1-11? Does this suggest that our Sabbath rest is different from Israel's?

 

[ralliann]

Hello,

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore the way to testify about God's righteousness is also eternal (Psalms 119:160). So for example, it has always been against God's righteousness to commit adultery regardless of when God first commanded laws against doing that, which is why sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so likewise the way to testify about God's holiness has always existed regardless of when God commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath holy.

Moses law was added (additional) 430 after the covenant made with Abraham.
Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
What law before?
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Spoken of here..
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Which God would see if they would keep here.

Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove <05254> them, whether they will walk in my law, or no

The law of faith...
Ge 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt <05254> Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am

Confirmed before with an oath... making it immutable

Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel confirmed it by an oath:

After his testing (his faith) obtained the promises as immutable.
Ge 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
An oath for confirmation.....
Ge 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Which confirmation,
Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

So while we can be sure of Gods faithfulness to keep the oath, as it cannot be disannulled. It also cannot be added to.
The covenant at Sinai cannot not dissanul the promises, and the covenant cannot be added to. It is Immutable.

The covenant made before in Christ....

Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
The sabbath commands were a testing of their faith. The law of faith cannot be disannuled by a latter covenant, nor added to.

The Sabbath is a command and sign of Horeb/ also called Sinai.

What existed from the beginning was the law of faith........