Does morality exist without God?

[Gadarene]

You have already admitted that "goodness" exist's. God is all the goodness.

Nope. This is a presumption on your part.

 

[someguy14]

How arrogant is that for you or me to say, "Im good, Im good"? When all that any has, has been given us.

 

[Gadarene]

How arrogant is that for you or me to say, "Im good, Im good"? When all that any has, has been given us.

Simple.

Because it wasn't "given" to us.

You're still presuming.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Do you consider kindness a good thing?

That depends on if it is exercised rationally and wisely at the right time, in the right way, with the right intent, etc.

I regard a person who can do this reasonably well to be someone who has developed the virtue of kindness. Yes, I regard that accomplishment as a good thing.

If so, do you agree that Christ teaching kindness(love) is a good thing?

I agree that anyone teaching kindness is a good thing, whether that is Jesus, or the Buddha, or Muhammed, or Secular Humanists, or whomever.

If so, it cannot be a bad thing to encourage others to Christ, since all that Christ teaches is love.

Bzzzzzt! That is incorrect. That is not even close to the complete message of the gospels.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Dave Ellis]

Well glory I was under the impression you were a atheist. You don't believe in Christian statements of faith, but you do believe that God exist since you never made a claim he does not. Its a start.

You are correct that I am an Atheist. However, you don't need to assert there is no god to be one.

To clarify, there are two positions you can possibly hold when asked about the existence of something... You believe it exists, or you don't hold a belief that it exists. When talking about God, those labels are called Theism and Atheism.

A Theist is someone willing to make the claim that they do believe a god of some sort exists. This could be the Christian God, a deistic God, Zeus, or whatever. A belief in one or many gods means you are a Theist.

Likewise, if you are not willing to assert that a God exists, you are an Atheist. That does not mean you are absolutely dead-set against the possibility of one existing... You just currently see no reason to believe one does exist.

Very few Atheists would actually assert that there is no possibility of God existing... however most (myself included) see it as a quite remote possibility given the lack of evidence. I don't see any more reason to believe in the Christian God than I would have to believe in Zeus.

I can't assert either one of them definitely does not exist. But I do not believe either one of them do... That's basically the Atheistic position in a nutshell.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Do you consider kindness a good thing?
If so, do you agree that Christ teaching kindness(love) is a good thing?
If so, it cannot be a bad thing to encourage others to Christ, since all that Christ teaches is love.

Actually, Christ's teachings were a mixed bag. There were a number of great teachings attributed to him (However I may add none of the concepts he preached were original). Whereas he also preached a number of immoral things on top of baseless superstition. Muhammad also had a number of moral teachings, why not accept Islam based on the same criteria you are advocating? Or Buddhism, or Hinduism, or whatever? You can find some good moral teachings in any religion on the planet... but that does not make the religion true as a whole.

I believe you should take good advice from any source, meaning the good elements of what Jesus had to say you can take note of. However, you don't need the superstition, or any kind of Christian belief to be a good, moral person. That makes Christianity redundant. We should instead put more focus on teaching rational thought, ethics and morality instead of Religion.

 

[Dave Ellis]

You have already admitted that "goodness" exist's. God is all the goodness.

Sure, goodness exists... How do you draw that conclusion that goodness is God?

And which God are you referring to? How do you specifically link goodness to your particular god?

 

[Common Sense]

Landing in a nest of Athesist I realize God isn't on trial and He certainly has nothing to prove, He's not upset that you don't believe in Him, in fact Hesees you for what you are and allows you all the intertainment the world has to offer. It dosen't get any better that that for you, after that it's a down hill slide with no fun at the bottom.
If your gods are wealth, sex, drink, position, drugs and constant party time, your not about to give that up eternal life in a place where you won't be with your gods.. The truth is when you die, that party is over.

 

[someguy14]

Simple.

Because it wasn't "given" to us.

You're still presuming.

Life is a gift.

 

[someguy14]

That depends on if it is exercised rationally and wisely at the right time, in the right way, with the right intent, etc.

I regard a person who can do this reasonably well to be someone who has developed the virtue of kindness. Yes, I regard that accomplishment as a good thing.


eudaimonia,

Mark

So does that make sense that Jesus is pure, unblemished. Comes from the source, the source, of kindness itself, untouched by the world, wise, with the right timing, the right way and the right intent? To save the world from perishing, offering eternal life, from The Source, where only goodness exists. Is it possible? Of course it is possible. All things are possible with The Soure. It is the good news.

 

[someguy14]

Bzzzzzt! That is incorrect. That is not even close to the complete message of the gospels.


eudaimonia,

Mark

How is that incorrect from your point of view?

 

[ramblingokie]

Hypothetically speaking I believe the answer would be yes. Mans morality would be governed by what ever is currently popular and/or ensure security. This would change over time. It would not be a constant. Speaking just for me this ( a constant morality) is one reason that I believe there is a God.

 

[someguy14]

Actually, Christ's teachings were a mixed bag. There were a number of great teachings attributed to him (However I may add none of the concepts he preached were original). Whereas he also preached a number of immoral things on top of baseless superstition.

"Mixed bag"? How new age is that description?

Ressurection is possible. Healing the sick is possible. He proved right before their eyes. If He is able to show this right before their eyes, He also proves that eternal life is possible. A place where death and pain and wickedness does not exist. All possible. Do you agree that offering a place of eternal life, joy and goodness is good?

Muhammad also had a number of moral teachings, why not accept Islam based on the same criteria you are advocating?

From speaking to a few muslims, they have said that Jesus was never crucified and never rose from the dead. From reading the Gospels, we have at least 3 witnesses that wrote of Jesus ressurection. 3 that walked with Jesus and listened to the teachings and witnessed the miracles. Many are witnesses to these miracles. And still today and tomorrow, many witnesses. Saying that the miracle of ressurection didn't happen is against the Gospels teachings and witnesses.

I believe you should take good advice from any source, meaning the good elements of what Jesus had to say you can take note of. However, you don't need the superstition, or any kind of Christian belief to be a good, moral person. That makes Christianity redundant. We should instead put more focus on teaching rational thought, ethics and morality instead of Religion.

The earth, the universe, the creatures, water itself, are miracles, visable miracles. Rationale, intellect, sound judgement, love for one another are invisable miracles. If all of these invisable miracles and visable miracles are possible, all is possible, with the Creator of it all.
If mankind is still discovering new things, isn't that proof that mankind has received these things. If mankind has received these things, how can mankind glory in them without giving credit to the one that gave them in the first place?

 

[someguy14]

And which God are you referring to?

The God of all goodness. All good, all true, pure goodness. The Source of goodness itself.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Landing in a nest of Athesist I realize God isn't on trial and He certainly has nothing to prove, He's not upset that you don't believe in Him, in fact Hesees you for what you are and allows you all the intertainment the world has to offer. It dosen't get any better that that for you, after that it's a down hill slide with no fun at the bottom.
If your gods are wealth, sex, drink, position, drugs and constant party time, your not about to give that up eternal life in a place where you won't be with your gods.. The truth is when you die, that party is over.

First off... How do you know what you're saying is in the least bit accurate? How do you know what God's feelings are towards Atheists?

Secondly, you are showing overt bigotry in even throwing out the idea that our "Gods" (which is a very questionable use of the word) are Wealth, Sex, Drink, Position, Drugs or Party Time. Pull your head out of your ignorant, bigoted ass and open your eyes to the reality that people that don't believe what you do are still good, hard working, stable contributors to society.

In my case, I am employed in a career that I love. It pays enough to meet my needs, and save for eventual retirement. I drink socially, but very rarely get drunk and can't remember the last time I drank at home. I have never taken a drug of any kind, and for that matter haven't even smoked a cigarette in my life. And while I enjoy parties, the parties I go to usually consist of getting together to watch a sporting event on TV with a couple friends.

I have a happy, stable, fulfilling life. I enjoy a good debate about religion, however I have no anger towards religious people, unless they are disrespectful towards me first.

The point is, you have shown you have no understanding of the Atheist position or what an Atheist is.

Furthermore, you are making assertions about the opinions of your god and what happens after someone's death that you have no way of possibly knowing. Why would I be convinced or even concerned of that?

 

[Belk]

Landing in a nest of Athesist I realize God isn't on trial and He certainly has nothing to prove, He's not upset that you don't believe in Him, in fact Hesees you for what you are and allows you all the intertainment the world has to offer.

Are you a prophet? Does God divulge his innermost thoughts to you? If not it would seem a tad presumptuous to feel you can speak in his stead.

It dosen't get any better that that for you, after that it's a down hill slide with no fun at the bottom.
If your gods are wealth, sex, drink, position, drugs and constant party time, your not about to give that up eternal life in a place where you won't be with your gods.. The truth is when you die, that party is over.

I agree. And yet I still see no evidence that gives me a compelling reason to believe in a god. Got anything other then vague threats of damnation?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Hypothetically speaking I believe the answer would be yes. Mans morality would be governed by what ever is currently popular and/or ensure security. This would change over time. It would not be a constant. Speaking just for me this ( a constant morality) is one reason that I believe there is a God.

History has shown what is accepted as moral has shifted dramatically over time. How do you possibly make the case it's been a constant?

 

[Dave Ellis]

"Mixed bag"? How new age is that description?

It's a figure of speech... If you knew me in person, you'd know I'm about as far from "new age" as you can possibly get.

Ressurection is possible. Healing the sick is possible. He proved right before their eyes. If He is able to show this right before their eyes, He also proves that eternal life is possible. A place where death and pain and wickedness does not exist. All possible. Do you agree that offering a place of eternal life, joy and goodness is good?

Are you actually serious?

First off, resurrection is not possible. Nobody has proven eternal life exists, There is no place we know of where death, pain or wickedness does not exist.

Healing the sick is possible... if you're a doctor.

And offering a place of eternal life, joy and goodness would be great, if such a place actually existed. Selling people on the idea of such a place, when it actually doesn't exist, is quite immoral.

From speaking to a few muslims, they have said that Jesus was never crucified and never rose from the dead. From reading the Gospels, we have at least 3 witnesses that wrote of Jesus ressurection. 3 that walked with Jesus and listened to the teachings and witnessed the miracles. Many are witnesses to these miracles. And still today and tomorrow, many witnesses. Saying that the miracle of ressurection didn't happen is against the Gospels teachings and witnesses.

Jesus being crucified is up for debate. If he actually existed at all, he may have been crucified. However he certainly did not rise from the dead.

Wow, three uncited sources in a 2,000 year old holy book is proof for you? Prove the Gospel is historically accurate in that regard. There is no extra-biblical evidence to show that Jesus even existed at all. Plenty of historical evidence contradicts what the bible has to say. It is not a reliable historical document, it's a book of mythology.

The earth, the universe, the creatures, water itself, are miracles, visable miracles. Rationale, intellect, sound judgement, love for one another are invisable miracles. If all of these invisable miracles and visable miracles are possible, all is possible, with the Creator of it all.
If mankind is still discovering new things, isn't that proof that mankind has received these things. If mankind has received these things, how can mankind glory in them without giving credit to the one that gave them in the first place?

Those are not miracles, they're natural occurrences.

And no, if we discover something new, we didn't receive anything. It was there all along, we just didn't know about it until now. And what makes you think anything was created by your god?

 

[Dave Ellis]

The God of all goodness. All good, all true, pure goodness. The Source of goodness itself.

So you mean The Flying Spaghetti Monster (cheese be upon him)?

 

[now faith]

in

You are correct that I am an Atheist. However, you don't need to assert there is no god to be one.

To clarify, there are two positions you can possibly hold when asked about the existence of something... You believe it exists, or you don't hold a belief that it exists. When talking about God, those labels are called Theism and Atheism.

A Theist is someone willing to make the claim that they do believe a god of some sort exists. This could be the Christian God, a deistic God, Zeus, or whatever. A belief in one or many gods means you are a Theist.

Likewise, if you are not willing to assert that a God exists, you are an Atheist. That does not mean you are absolutely dead-set against the possibility of one existing... You just currently see no reason to believe one does exist.

Very few Atheists would actually assert that there is no possibility of God existing... however most (myself included) see it as a quite remote possibility given the lack of evidence. I don't see any more reason to believe in the Christian God than I would have to believe in Zeus
I can't assert either one of them definitely does not exist. But I do not believe either one of them do... That's basically the Atheistic position in a nutshell.

Your tidy label does not apply , a Christian does not believe in pagan Gods thus we are not in your definition of theist. We have one God three beings , through Christ we have life eternal life . Our God is living and has always been and always will be, through our spirit we commune with him we know him in person, yes he talks to us. You may never know this joy of interaction with your creator, you may suffer eternal separation. With the majority world wide understanding Christ are you willing to throw the dice ? God is moved by faith if you turn your back you may not have the priveledge of death bed salvation. I sincerely hope you reconsider your views , take a step back and listen to Gods still small voice. Deep down we all know their is God you do as well. God is love he loves you and would not have you perish. God is just you must accept him Christ in your heart with out Christ there are no remissions of sin. It takes more faith to think like you than a Christian has, you are willing to gamble your soul.