Does morality exist without God?

[quatona]

Your correct in saying that "If a subjectivist says that torture and rape are wrong, they're saying they're wrong to them". But if your a subjectivist you cannot say that torture and rape is wrong or immoral for anyone else. You can say the you don't like torture and rape but you can't tell us that they're wrong or immoral.

As an objectivist you can say they´re wrong and immoral - but why would anyone believe your subjective view to be objective?

 

[someguy14]

You're acting on an unproven presupposition that God exists, then use that presupposition as proof for your point.

It is proven though, I am proof, along with other believers. It has such an impact in ones life that it doesn't go unnoticed. Brings purpose and understanding. Direction. Believes in one another because of that great renewing in a persons life. Brings knowledge of all things and the ones that believe in that knowledge, have peace about it. It is a proven fact because we have such saying it is so, personally in each of the believers life and are truely speaking that it is true within themselves, personally. All of these testimonys stand on there own, strong against every accusation and belittling that fights against it, for each individual that believes in God is able to stand on that ones own because it is true to that individual and that one is reminded of how true it is every single day in their own lives, and together it is even stronger, that hell itself cannot touch it and trembles at the thought of even attempting it.

Just this alone is proof that it is true and until those that do not believe as of yet, involve that into their equation of exhausting all resources to come to a conclusion and desire to find the exact truth, they fall short, for they are not exercising their ability to exhaust all resources in proving that God exists and is the fountain of all knowledge and understanding and truth that has existed, exists, and will eternally exist for ever and ever. In our weaknesses, He is our strength.

 

[The Nihilist]

It is proven though, I am proof, along with other believers. It has such an impact in ones life that it doesn't go unnoticed. Brings purpose and understanding. Direction. Believes in one another because of that great renewing in a persons life. Brings knowledge of all things and the ones that believe in that knowledge, have peace about it. It is a proven fact because we have such saying it is so, personally in each of the believers life and are truely speaking that it is true within themselves, personally. All of these testimonys stand on there own, strong against every accusation and belittling that fights against it, for each individual that believes in God is able to stand on that ones own because it is true to that individual and that one is reminded of how true it is every single day in their own lives, and together it is even stronger, that hell itself cannot touch it and trembles at the thought of even attempting it.

Just this alone is proof that it is true and until those that do not believe as of yet, involve that into their equation of exhausting all resources to come to a conclusion and desire to find the exact truth, they fall short, for they are not exercising their ability to exhaust all resources in proving that God exists and is the fountain of all knowledge and understanding and truth that has existed, exists, and will eternally exist for ever and ever. In our weaknesses, He is our strength.

Not how proof works. Just, you know, fyi

 

[someguy14]

Not how proof works. Just, you know, fyi

Until you search into the claim that God exists in each of His believers in Him, your claim falls short. We welcome you with open arms friend. We desire you come to the knowledge of truth that lives inside of each of His own, and encourage you to test it to the best of your ability. May we be with you every step of the way friend. Let us lift you up when that wile attempts to hinder your walk. Let us take that bullet intended for you friend. God loves you very much friend. May God be with you every step of the way in your pursuit for Him. God is greater. He will overcome. He is all the good. Gods own don't give up. First in, last out.



















.

 

[Common Sense]

What I say dosen't matter and I cant't speak for everyone, God can and does,no matter if you believe He exists or not, do wrong andpay the concequences, do right and receive blesings. Thats a simple one.

 

[The Nihilist]

Until you search into the claim that God exists in each of His believers in Him, your claim falls short. We welcome you with open arms friend. We desire you come to the knowledge of truth that lives inside of each of His own, and encourage you to test it to the best of your ability. May we be with you every step of the way friend. Let us lift you up when that wile attempts to hinder your walk. Let us take that bullet intended for you friend. God loves you very much friend. May God be with you every step of the way in your pursuit for Him. God is greater. He will overcome. He is all the good. Gods own don't give up. First in, last out.
.

No thanks. Your church seems to involve a lot of touching, and being touched by strangers kind of creeps me out. Also, you've said a couple of times that there's something holy inside of each of you and you've invited me to explore that, and I don't care to learn whether that's a euphemism.

 

[The Nihilist]

What I say dosen't matter and I cant't speak for everyone, God can and does,no matter if you believe He exists or not, do wrong andpay the concequences, do right and receive blesings. Thats a simple one.

This is neither true of this world nor the next, even from a christian viewpoint. The christian view is that you are damned whether you do right or wrong, and can only be saved through belief.

 

[Dave Ellis]

It is proven though, I am proof, along with other believers. It has such an impact in ones life that it doesn't go unnoticed. Brings purpose and understanding. Direction. Believes in one another because of that great renewing in a persons life. Brings knowledge of all things and the ones that believe in that knowledge, have peace about it. It is a proven fact because we have such saying it is so, personally in each of the believers life and are truely speaking that it is true within themselves, personally. All of these testimonys stand on there own, strong against every accusation and belittling that fights against it, for each individual that believes in God is able to stand on that ones own because it is true to that individual and that one is reminded of how true it is every single day in their own lives, and together it is even stronger, that hell itself cannot touch it and trembles at the thought of even attempting it.

Just this alone is proof that it is true and until those that do not believe as of yet, involve that into their equation of exhausting all resources to come to a conclusion and desire to find the exact truth, they fall short, for they are not exercising their ability to exhaust all resources in proving that God exists and is the fountain of all knowledge and understanding and truth that has existed, exists, and will eternally exist for ever and ever. In our weaknesses, He is our strength.

You are proof of your own existence. You are not proof of God's

And despite your long rambling mess, you have not given any credible reason whatsoever to accept the idea that your God exists.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Until you search into the claim that God exists in each of His believers in Him, your claim falls short. We welcome you with open arms friend. We desire you come to the knowledge of truth that lives inside of each of His own, and encourage you to test it to the best of your ability. May we be with you every step of the way friend. Let us lift you up when that wile attempts to hinder your walk. Let us take that bullet intended for you friend. God loves you very much friend. May God be with you every step of the way in your pursuit for Him. God is greater. He will overcome. He is all the good. Gods own don't give up. First in, last out.

What makes you think non-believers haven't searched extensively into the god claims not only of your religion, but many others?

People who believe in God may be under the impression that God exists in them... but that doesn't provide any evidence, much less proof that God exists anywhere at all.

 

[now faith]

What makes you think non-believers haven't searched extensively into the god claims not only of your religion, but many others?

People who believe in God may be under the impression that God exists in them... but that doesn't provide any evidence, much less proof that God exists anywhere at all.

Prove God does not exist. You know I am not a lot of things, but I don't waste my time trying to refute others religion. What's the point so you don't think there is a God that will not change God. People who do not know God have no idea what a spiritual walk with Christ is its hard for Christians to convey this walk to someone who seeks only to degrade Christianity. In Gods own time he reveals himself its up to the person to respond. You cannot judge what God does in Christian lives, maybe there are millions of crazy superstition driven people. How did they get that way? Is it conspiracy?

 

[Common Sense]

The Nihilist

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Originally Posted by Common Sense

What I say dosen't matter and I cant't speak for everyone, God can and does,no matter if you believe He exists or not, do wrong andpay the concequences, do right and receive blesings. Thats a simple one.
​

This is neither true of this world nor the next, even from a christian viewpoint. The christian view is that you are damned whether you do right or wrong, and can only be saved through belief.


You got it right, you have a better view than most non-believers. Everyone is dammed no matter how they live. Only one way out of Hell and that's accepting Jesus as your savior, believing He died on the cross for your sins, resurected and acended back to the Father, allow Him to be the guide for your life and not Satan. It's easy and simple, anyone making it hard and complicated is wrong.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Prove God does not exist. You know I am not a lot of things, but I don't waste my time trying to refute others religion. What's the point so you don't think there is a God that will not change God. People who do not know God have no idea what a spiritual walk with Christ is its hard for Christians to convey this walk to someone who seeks only to degrade Christianity. In Gods own time he reveals himself its up to the person to respond. You cannot judge what God does in Christian lives, maybe there are millions of crazy superstition driven people. How did they get that way? Is it conspiracy?

I don't have to prove God doesn't exist... I never made that claim.

You made a bunch of claims about how you know God exists. You provided absolutely no proof, instead offering up a claim that since a lot of people "know" he exists, or attribute things in their lives to God then he must exist.

It's not a compelling reason to believe your claim at all. Therefore, I don't believe your claim until you give me good reason to.

 

[The Nihilist]

The Nihilist

formerly RecoveringPhilosopher

29

Join Date: 14th September 2006
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Originally Posted by Common Sense

What I say dosen't matter and I cant't speak for everyone, God can and does,no matter if you believe He exists or not, do wrong andpay the concequences, do right and receive blesings. Thats a simple one.
​

This is neither true of this world nor the next, even from a christian viewpoint. The christian view is that you are damned whether you do right or wrong, and can only be saved through belief.


You got it right, you have a better view than most non-believers. Everyone is dammed no matter how they live. Only one way out of Hell and that's accepting Jesus as your savior, believing He died on the cross for your sins, resurected and acended back to the Father, allow Him to be the guide for your life and not Satan. It's easy and simple, anyone making it hard and complicated is wrong.

No, you misunderstand. I was pointing out that you were wrong on your own terms. I don't share the broken, pathetic, down-trodden view of life that your ilk seems to find so uplifting.

 

[now faith]

I don't have to prove God doesn't exist... I never made that claim.

You made a bunch of claims about how you know God exists. You provided absolutely no proof, instead offering up a claim that since a lot of people "know" he exists, or attribute things in their lives to God then he must exist.

It's not a compelling reason to believe your claim at all. Therefore, I don't believe your claim until you give me good reason to.

Well glory I was under the impression you were a atheist. You don't believe in Christian statements of faith, but you do believe that God exist since you never made a claim he does not. Its a start.

 

[someguy14]

You made a bunch of claims about how you know God exists. You provided absolutely no proof, instead offering up a claim that since a lot of people "know" he exists, or attribute things in their lives to God then he must exist.

I notice His attribute in the kindness shown by other believers.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I notice His attribute in the kindness shown by other believers.

Non-Christians can be kind. That seems like ambiguous evidence.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

Well glory I was under the impression you were a atheist. You don't believe in Christian statements of faith, but you do believe that God exist since you never made a claim he does not. Its a start.

Not quite. It isn't the case that someone who doesn't make the claim that God doesn't exist necessarily believes that God does exist. Such a person may simply lack belief that God exists. That's the case for most atheists.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[someguy14]

Non-Christians can be kind. That seems like ambiguous evidence.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Do you consider kindness a good thing?
If so, do you agree that Christ teaching kindness(love) is a good thing?
If so, it cannot be a bad thing to encourage others to Christ, since all that Christ teaches is love.

 

[Gadarene]

Do you consider kindness a good thing?
If so, do you agree that Christ teaching kindness(love) is a good thing?
If so, it cannot be a bad thing to encourage others to Christ, since all that Christ teaches is love.

It's just somewhat redundant. One can be good without God, so teaching people about God in order to do good is surplus to requirements.

Although I could actually argue that it's a bad thing to justify being good on the basis of God existing and teaching it, as there is no good evidence for the existence of God or him directly inspiring those commands. If people fall away from their faith their justification for doing good may fall away with it too.

Doing good should not be predicated on the basis of something flimsy.

 

[someguy14]

It's just somewhat redundant. One can be good without God, so teaching people about God in order to do good is surplus to requirements.

Although I could actually argue that it's a bad thing to justify being good on the basis of God existing and teaching it, as there is no good evidence for the existence of God or him directly inspiring those commands. If people fall away from their faith their justification for doing good may fall away with it too.

Doing good should not be predicated on the basis of something flimsy.

You have already admitted that "goodness" exist's. God is all the goodness.