Does morality exist without God?

[rubicontwentytwelve]

Well, in all fairness, Church and State should be separate.

Why is it 'fair' for church and state to be separate, and who is it fair to?

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

Why is it 'fair' for church and state to be separate, and who is it fair to?

To everybody not part of the state church. Keeping in mind there's 30.000 different christian ones alone..

 

[The Nihilist]

Man, except under certain limited circumstances and occasions, never has lived under God's teachng of morality; the most recent being the establishment of the U.S Constitution in the late 1700's which Americans promptly dismissed in 1825 / 1829 in favor of establishing their own laws and righteousness according to force (will) of popular opinion (majority rule).

Wait, what?

 

[mzungu]

Hmmm, does this not seem to contradict Proverbs 16:6?

"by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil."

In my dictionary that can be expressed in one word: "BLACKMAIL"!

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

i agree

in context to humans



but GOD's kingdom

requires a king

Why is it 'fair' for church and state to be separate, and who is it fair to?

 

[Tears4You]

To everybody not part of the state church. Keeping in mind there's 30.000 different christian ones alone..

You're very smart. I like you.

Yes, in today's world I'd say its very hard to say "church" and state should be one in the same. Which church? Which sect should it apply to?

 

[The Free Atheist]

Why is it 'fair' for church and state to be separate, and who is it fair to?

Everyone. It's the only way to be fair to everyone. The Separation of Church and State also protects Christianity.

 

[The Free Atheist]

Man has been operating according to his inate (instinctual) morality since Eve chose to do so and Adam called her 'life'.....

Except Adam & Eve has been falsified through scientific discoveries in numerous fields ranging from paleontology to genetics. Our instinctual morality is part of our evolution.

 

[The Free Atheist]

This is an interesting comment, that does not require an hour to make! So many atheists on here declare we are all "born atheists," which does not jibe with my perception of reality.

Maybe because you are defining atheist too specifically. Atheist comes from the Greek word atheos, which means "without god". A infant does not hold a belief in god therefore an infant is without (a) God. Saying we are born atheists does not mean we are born denying God, it just means that until a child learns about God they lack a belief that there is one.

 

[razeontherock]

A infant does not hold a belief in god therefore an infant is without (a) God.

That's a really bad and unfounded conclusion!

 

[Ration]

That's a really bad and unfounded conclusion!

Not at all, babies have no concept of god and therefore have no concept of religion. Arguably, they aren't even conscious beings. A child only learns about these things through exposure to their parents and friends beliefs. Now, once they are grown up and actually understand the things that religion espouses, then they can choose what to believe.

OT: Yes, I wholeheartedly believe morality exists without god. Actually, morality can be seen as an evolutionary response. Populations don't exactly grow if everyone is murdering eachother.

 

[The Free Atheist]

That's a really bad and unfounded conclusion!

And how did you come to that conclusion? My three year old has no concept of God yet as we haven't discussed it with her. You'd have me believe that infants have a concept of a god?

 

[mzungu]

Next time I come across an infant in its crib I must remember to ask it about Ezekiel!!!!

 

[razeontherock]

Not at all, babies have no concept of god and therefore have no concept of religion.

True, but that has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I objected to, which was the statement that a baby is necessarily "without God." (Which, once you understand the terms, is a horrible notion)

 

[chris4243]

True, but that has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I objected to, which was the statement that a baby is necessarily "without God." (Which, once you understand the terms, is a horrible notion)

Would you also say that no atheist is "without God"?

 

[razeontherock]

Would you also say that no atheist is "without God"?

Sadly, no. But i would say the only atheists that are truly w/o God are those that have willingly and knowingly rejected Him, and that effort of their's only worked because the Holy Ghost is a gentleman. From what I have seen, the vast majority of atheists have not known enough to reject God, let alone intentionally willed to do so. (Although I do need to clarify that as an act of our will, rejecting God can be unbelievably easy, even to the point of mere carelessness.)

 

[Ration]

Sadly, no. But i would say the only atheists that are truly w/o God are those that have willingly and knowingly rejected Him, and that effort of their's only worked because the Holy Ghost is a gentleman. From what I have seen, the vast majority of atheists have not known enough to reject God, let alone intentionally willed to do so. (Although I do need to clarify that as an act of our will, rejecting God can be unbelievably easy, even to the point of mere carelessness.)

Most atheists I know are better versed in religion than most religious people.

 

[Belk]

Sadly, no. But i would say the only atheists that are truly w/o God are those that have willingly and knowingly rejected Him, and that effort of their's only worked because the Holy Ghost is a gentleman. From what I have seen, the vast majority of atheists have not known enough to reject God, let alone intentionally willed to do so. (Although I do need to clarify that as an act of our will, rejecting God can be unbelievably easy, even to the point of mere carelessness.)

Then they would not be an atheist?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

True, but that has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I objected to, which was the statement that a baby is necessarily "without God." (Which, once you understand the terms, is a horrible notion)

Why? And how can you substantiate your claim?

 

[mzungu]

Sadly, no. But i would say the only atheists that are truly w/o God are those that have willingly and knowingly rejected Him, and that effort of their's only worked because the Holy Ghost is a gentleman. From what I have seen, the vast majority of atheists have not known enough to reject God, let alone intentionally willed to do so. (Although I do need to clarify that as an act of our will, rejecting God can be unbelievably easy, even to the point of mere carelessness.)

Oh well I guess I shall have to strike a deal with the devil since as an avowed atheist I am doomed to eternal fire and brimstone anyway!