Does morality exist without God?

[Aryn9189]

I also do not have a religion. I was referring to the idea that it is the natural tendency of humans to believe in a god. I'm sorry, I'm not always good at explaining what I mean, but the video explained it better.

 

[razeontherock]

This is an interesting comment, that does not require an hour to make! So many atheists on here declare we are all "born atheists," which does not jibe with my perception of reality.

 

[razeontherock]

I would like to believe that. But unfortunately some people DO see the bible as a history and science manual aswell as a spiritual guide rather than just being a spiritual guide as it should be.

Ok ya caught me; I almost went back and edited that to read "any reasonable person does not read the Bible to ascertain an unproveable history of the world.

Believing in evolution does not mean dismissing your belief in god

Lookee there, we can agree on some things!

 

[razeontherock]

Well we aren't born athiests, we are born opinionless. At time of birth we barely have any self-awareness, if any at all. Any belief system whether it be religious, or athiest, comes much later in life, and usually heavily influenced by our parents beliefs.

Fair enough. The viddy apparently states to the contrary.

 

[Gracchus]

Your goading is duly noted, and not reported. Consider that Mercy upon your own weakness, and do not expect a repeat. If you are probing for weakness, you need to look elsewhere!

Were you goaded or were you challenged? No matter. I'll take the implied threat for the deed, and give it the consideration it deserves.

I agree religion is a social construct, and do not agree that it is essential to being human.

But it is not entirely a social construct. Religion arises from some very useful mental shortcuts, that arise in the brain genetically, for social and biological purposes, and that can, taken together, lead one to false conclusions.

Now you have to deal with the fact I do not have a religion, and I certainly don't practice one.

We have to deal with the fact that your faith icon denotes that you are a Christian, so you are apparently mis-representing yourself, either to the mods or to those posting. I haven't reported that, which you may consider that mercy on your own false credentials, or not.


In any case, the video is about some fairly new findings in neuroscience, and is worth some time, if you were not already aware of them.

Fair enough. The viddy apparently states to the contrary.

And apparently you still haven't watched it.

You see part of the picture, and fill in the parts that aren't there. We all do it. It saves time, which is imperative in some situations, but is very damaging in others. That, as the video points out, is probably the origin of religion.

 

[Antarctika]

This is an interesting comment, that does not require an hour to make! So many atheists on here declare we are all "born atheists," which does not jibe with my perception of reality.

What do you think is the default belief we're born with?

 

[chris4243]

But when it comes to something that will shape the future of human-kind, evolution, i have problems when people just shrug it off as nonsense when they haven't really given it a chance.

You know as well as I do that evolution won't shape the future of mankind. Genetic engineering will. Evolution won't have much significance in the future, especially not if Moore's Law continues to hold.

 

[Gracchus]

What do you think is the default belief we're born with?

We are not born with a belief, any more than we are born with pubic hair. Our beliefs develop according to the biological conformations of our minds and the social environments in which we grow up.

If we grow up in a society that is Christian or Muslim, we either accept the cultural imposition or learn to pretend to accept it, as a matter of simple survival. For instance, the threat was made to me when I was in kindergarten that if I didn't believe in Santa Claus, I wouldn't get any presents at Christmas, and I really wanted a machine gun. (Unfortunately, all I got was a toy. Santa was useless!)

But we are genetically predisposed to find patterns even in chaos, and infer purpose even in chance events. The problem arises when we keep the patterns and inferred purposes even when rational consideration has shown them spurious.

When we keep the socially imposed norms, even though they are contrary to reason, we are left with ... a history of horrors.

 

[Gracchus]

You know as well as I do that evolution won't shape the future of mankind. Genetic engineering will. Evolution won't have much significance in the future, especially not if Moore's Law continues to hold.

Alas, there will still be variation and selection, and all sorts of unintended consequences, most of them almost certainly unpleasant.

 

[razeontherock]

Were you goaded or were you challenged?

You have yet to present anything that challenges me. If that is your intent you need to try a lot harder.

But it is not entirely a social construct. Religion arises from ...

your faith icon denotes that you are a Christian, so you are apparently mis-representing yourself ...

the origin of religion.

All you represent is that Biblical Christianity is a complete mystery to you. You really have no idea what it might be, otherwise you would see why your viddy (and verbiage) is irrelevant here.

 

[razeontherock]

What do you think is the default belief we're born with?

Human development is quite a fascinating thing! Did you know there is no evidence to suggest we develop intelligence, or that we are not born with all the intelligence we ever possess? But clearly we are born with no beliefs. Soon we come to learn if we cry, someone will bumble about until they figure out what we wanted. Soon after, those wants will vary from our actual needs, and our naive belief will inevitably be shattered as loving parents impose needed discipline.

G-d is very much in the business of shattering our beliefs, in favor of Truth.

 

[Antarctika]

G-d is very much in the business of shattering our beliefs, in favor of Truth.

Can you elaborate?

I pretty much agree with what you said above

 

[mzungu]

You have yet to present anything that challenges me. If that is your intent you need to try a lot harder.

Isn't there something about VANITY being a sin in the Bible.............

 

[chris4243]

Human development is quite a fascinating thing! Did you know there is no evidence to suggest we develop intelligence, or that we are not born with all the intelligence we ever possess?

Nope, but I know the opposite of that is true. About half the human variability in intelligence is due to our different genetics, and about half due to our upbringing (both nutrition and stimulating environment). All kinds of things you can learn when comparing fraternal twins, identical twins, etc.

 

[Belk]

Human development is quite a fascinating thing! Did you know there is no evidence to suggest we develop intelligence, or that we are not born with all the intelligence we ever possess? But clearly we are born with no beliefs. Soon we come to learn if we cry, someone will bumble about until they figure out what we wanted. Soon after, those wants will vary from our actual needs, and our naive belief will inevitably be shattered as loving parents impose needed discipline.

G-d is very much in the business of shattering our beliefs, in favor of Truth.

According to whom?

 

[Gracchus]

You have yet to present anything that challenges me. If that is your intent you need to try a lot harder.

My challenge was to watch the video. I should have been specific, as you do not seem very discerning. That you are unwilling to discuss it reveals a lot.

All you represent is that Biblical Christianity is a complete mystery to you.

You want to believe that, and I am sure you are very practiced at believing only what you want to believe.

You really have no idea what it might be, otherwise you would see why your viddy (and verbiage) is irrelevant here.

I am reasonably familiar with what Jesus taught, at least as much as is presented in the Gospels, presuming those are accurate accounts, and I agree with much of it. He may have been wrong about some things.

I know that, as defined on this forum, a Christian is one who professes either the Nicene or the Apostles' Creed. And I could probably still recite the first in English and the second in Latin.

The video, and this thread, are not about Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or any specific religion. The subject under discussion is whether there can be morality without God. Thus if there is no God but there is morality, then that would be pertinent to the discussion, and whether anyone understands Christianity is what is irrelevant.

I did not introduce the video, after all, and the video does not address the question of whether there is a God. It does address the question of why people believe in God, which is at least marginally pertinent.

 

[mzungu]

Human development is quite a fascinating thing! Did you know there is no evidence to suggest we develop intelligence, or that we are not born with all the intelligence we ever possess? But clearly we are born with no beliefs. Soon we come to learn if we cry, someone will bumble about until they figure out what we wanted. Soon after, those wants will vary from our actual needs, and our naive belief will inevitably be shattered as loving parents impose needed discipline.

G-d is very much in the business of shattering our beliefs, in favor of Truth.

Can you define intelligence?

 

[razeontherock]

Can you define intelligence?

And this is why some have said that they "know" intelligence develops after birth. Acquired knowledge can be measured to increase, but not intelligence.

 

[razeontherock]

The video, and this thread, are not about Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or any specific religion. The subject under discussion is whether there can be morality without God.the video does not address the question of whether there is a God. It does address the question of why people believe in God, which is at least marginally pertinent.

It does nothing to account for the revelation within Christianity, which is why your understanding of that or lack thereof is relevant. You cannot possibly place the video's content in proper perspective, and neither can the "star of the film" discern relevant content on the subject.

He can present raw scientific data, but drawing conclusions to the extent suggested is out of his area of expertise.

 

[ivebeenshown]

If we define God as existence itself -- not its other participants, either individually or as a sum -- then morality could not exist without God.