Does morality exist without God?

Autumnleaf · Jul 15, 2011

Morality exists without God. It is subjective to the person or people with the will to impose the morality on others. Hammurabi was the first I know of in recorded history to do this.

Cuddles333 · Jul 16, 2011

Well actually the first moral code existed much earlier. The Hammurabi Code dates to 1700-1750 B.C. which is pretty late.

This ancient Sumerian moral code is the first in human history:

Urukagina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 17, 2011

what can we therefore define this morality as ?

ToHoldNothing · Jul 17, 2011

Conventional morality and ultimate morality aren't necessarily so different except that conventional morality will admit of variation on a greater scale than ultimate morality, which would nonetheless be flexible enough that it doesn't have the moralizing rigidity that creates legalism

nebulaJP · Jul 17, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
Does morality exist without God? Why would it?
OR/
Why would it not?

I can see how in a 'fantasy world' with a preprogrammed, fully formed, directly created man the man wouldn't know the difference between right and wrong - not unless his programming included the morals (or common sense) that, in the 'real world', every social animal has developed naturally through evolution in order to ensure the survival of its species. If this man wasn't preprogrammed with an understanding of these rules of good conduct he would need God to personally teach him. But here's a more realistic reason for why we have morals that doesn't rely on this fantastic scenario:

To say hi to others is good. To kill them is bad. These two things are not arbitrary. If every member of a species was prone to do the latter that species would die out.

So the 'rationale' for social animals (animals that depend on the group to survive), especially mammals, is:

Kill my kind

I die

Don't kill my kind

I live

Hurt my kind

I hurt

etc.

I don't think you need anything special to explain empathy (or extrapolation - "I prefer not to be murdered, perhaps others of my kind feel the same way"). Why would empathy be any harder to develop than any other concept we conceive of with our relatively advanced, homo sapiens brains (God given through evolution or not)?

acropolis · Jul 18, 2011

Morality predates any concept of god, so I would say no, morality doesn't require god. Morality even predates humans: bands of chimps and packs of wolves have codes of conduct, and so does any group of social animals.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 19, 2011

obsessiveness of perfection yes = compulsiveness of self "righteous"

opposite to that is humility n aware of wrongdoings n deeds of good

ToHoldNothing said:
Conventional morality and ultimate morality aren't necessarily so different except that conventional morality will admit of variation on a greater scale than ultimate morality, which would nonetheless be flexible enough that it doesn't have the moralizing rigidity that creates legalism

ToHoldNothing · Jul 19, 2011

I can be aware that I'm doing wrong without requiring a deity to make grand declarations about how wrong those actions are. Principles can be discerned by a human mind and through experience.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 21, 2011

GOD doesnt call the qualified, He qualifies the called.

ToHoldNothing · Jul 21, 2011

Again, I don't see how you must insist that we need God to be moral, but I can understand from your perspective why you believe we need God to be righteous. The distinction is subtle, but it's important. There is a difference between meriting goodness before God and meriting righteousness before God. One of them is moreso about God's holiness and such, the other is simply something benign to God, it seems, since it doesn't surprise God that people can be good if they are a reflection of it, but it would surprise God a lot if humans somehow became equal to God, lol.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 22, 2011

it amazes me that CHRISTIANS are compromising n being LUKEWARM

its sad about standing against evil and embracing good instead ... we are called HOMOPHOBIC ... self righteous - GOD myth believing FUNDAMENTALISTS
　
homosexuality

spiritism

fornication/ adultery are prominent
　
HOW can there be no right n wrong??

so as the atheists would say or type that we believe in GOD he doesnt exist and never has he is described as a myth ......

atheists believe that a superior race came from another planet to come to earth and create life on earth,,,

wheres the proof of their belief??

but they condemn us of our faith hm hm

irony huh

Eudaimonist · Jul 22, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
it amazes me that CHRISTIANS are compromising n being LUKEWARM its sad about standing against evil and embracing good instead ... we are called HOMOPHOBIC ... self righteous - GOD myth believing FUNDAMENTALISTS

If homophobia is evil, then those Christians are right to embrace good and stand against lukewarm homophobic Christians.
　

atheists believe that a superior race came from another planet to come to earth and create life on earth,,,

Um, what?

eudaimonia,

Mark

Antarctika · Jul 22, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
homosexuality

spiritism

fornication

Whats wrong with those?

I mean, really wrong, with explanation. No mere Bible references please.

ToHoldNothing · Jul 22, 2011

HOW can there be no right n wrong??

Who said that?

so as the atheists would say or type that we believe in GOD he doesnt exist and never has he is described as a myth ......

atheists believe that a superior race came from another planet to come to earth and create life on earth,,,

That would be Raelians, if I'm understanding what you're characterizing the belief as. Most atheists I know aren't panspermists, believing that life came from an extraterrestrial source, though they exist.

Eudaimonist · Jul 22, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
HOW can there be no right n wrong??

There is right and wrong. It's wrong to be against homosexuality, for instance.

Even a Christian may take this stance, since a Christian could reasonably believe that the New Covenant erased any prior prohibition of homosexuality, and a Christian could also reasonably believe that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, which is the usual source of the anti-homosexuality view, wasn't even about the alleged evils of homosexuality.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Belk · Jul 22, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
it amazes me that CHRISTIANS are compromising n being LUKEWARM

its sad about standing against evil and embracing good instead ... we are called HOMOPHOBIC ... self righteous - GOD myth believing FUNDAMENTALISTS
　
homosexuality

spiritism

fornication/ adultery are prominent

Indeed. Odd how those Christians can have a diversity of opinion as if the had free will and their life experiences bring them to different conclusions then yours have.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
　
HOW can there be no right n wrong??

Beats me. You should find someone who claims this and ask them.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
so as the atheists would say or type that we believe in GOD he doesnt exist and never has he is described as a myth ......

Yes, odd how atheists don't believe in gods, seeing as how that is what the word means.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
atheists believe that a superior race came from another planet to come to earth and create life on earth,,,

No they don't. You see the only thing you can claim about all atheists is they don't believe in gods. That is the only thing all atheists hold in common.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
wheres the proof of their belief??

but they condemn us of our faith hm hm

irony huh

No, what you are describing is hypocrisy. Irony is something completely different.

Here, this might help. Irony - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Good luck.

Non sequitur · Jul 23, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
atheists believe that a superior race came from another planet to come to earth and create life on earth,,,

What?!

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 23, 2011

do we do wrong n right because of choice
or by nature

Non sequitur · Jul 23, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
do we do wrong n right because of choice
or by nature

That would be true.

But I'd really like to learn where you got atheists believe that a superior race came from another planet to come to earth and create life on earth.

ToHoldNothing · Jul 23, 2011

Bad experience with Raelians and/or panspermia advocates?

Does morality exist without God?

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