Does Matthew 24 describe the rapture?

[fli]

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. NKJV

The above sounds like the rapture of the Church. Verse 38 in the days of Noah just who was taken away? The people that were eating and drinking. Still in verse 38 was Noah and family eating and drinking. No! They were getting on the ark. The ones eating and drinking were partying while it started the 40 days of raining. After 40 days the flood covered the earth, and it took all the unrighteous for judgment. So, in Matthew who did God take away?

Matthew 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. NKJV

God took all the false christs and false prophets away for judgment. In the New Testament false christs and false prophets are called tares. Tares are people that call themselves” Christians” but they are not. Their doctrine is such that how they say to become a Christian will not get anyone into the kingdom of God. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy therefore, they are false prophets. When they say” Christ is in our church” you will not find Him there. Jesus will come and take the tares for judgment. The tares, as in the days of Noah, are the carcass that are left. The eagles in Noah's day sailed away in the ark.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' NKJV

Jesus told us that there would be some people, tares, calling Him Lord claiming that their works qualified them for salvation. Most, if not all of the tare denominations, claim that certain works qualifies people as Christians. That is false prophecy. Verse 22 above the people are claiming those works qualified them for salvation by Jesus. There are Christians who did some of the same “miracles”. The Christians who did those works did those works because they were saved, not to be saved, and they received power from God to do those works.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. NKJV

The above sounds like the rapture of the Church. Verse 38 in the days of Noah just who was taken away? The people that were eating and drinking. Still in verse 38 was Noah and family eating and drinking. No! They were getting on the ark. The ones eating and drinking were partying while it started the 40 days of raining. After 40 days the flood covered the earth, and it took all the unrighteous for judgment. So, in Matthew who did God take away?

Matthew 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. NKJV

God took all the false christs and false prophets away for judgment. In the New Testament false christs and false prophets are called tares. Tares are people that call themselves” Christians” but they are not. Their doctrine is such that how they say to become a Christian will not get anyone into the kingdom of God. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy therefore, they are false prophets. When they say” Christ is in our church” you will not find Him there. Jesus will come and take the tares for judgment. The tares, as in the days of Noah, are the carcass that are left. The eagles in Noah's day sailed away in the ark.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' NKJV

Jesus told us that there would be some people, tares, calling Him Lord claiming that their works qualified them for salvation. Most, if not all of the tare denominations, claim that certain works qualifies people as Christians. That is false prophecy. Verse 22 above the people are claiming those works qualified them for salvation by Jesus. There are Christians who did some of the same “miracles”. The Christians who did those works did those works because they were saved, not to be saved, and they received power from God to do those works.

The rapture just means being "caught up" like we see in 1 Thess 4:16 when Jesus comes


Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' NKJV

To me this shows people doing what they want to do in the name of God instead of submitting to God's will.

Depending on our works means to be depending on our righteousness not God's. Obeying God's commandments is submitting to His righteousness Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142 and the foundation of His Throne Psa 89:14 as it is submitting to His will Psa 40:8 lets not forget what Jesus said: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Obeying God's law the way He said is depending on His works, not ours.

God's law His Ten Commandments is God's works, not ours

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Which we are not to forget

Psa 78:7 That they may set their hope in God, And not forget the works of God, But keep His commandments;

And what the Spirit of Truth enables us to keep through our love and willingness to submit to His will

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

So lets not deceive ourselves by not practicing God's righteousness and God's works

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Why we shouldn't ignore what Jesus said in Mat 7:21-23

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Of course this is God's personal Testimony. what He wrote and He spoke Exo 31:`18 that no man has the business to edit even a jot or tittle Mat 5:18 yet alone a whole commandment or two.

 

[RandyPNW]

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. NKJV

The above sounds like the rapture of the Church. Verse 38 in the days of Noah just who was taken away? The people that were eating and drinking. Still in verse 38 was Noah and family eating and drinking. No! They were getting on the ark. The ones eating and drinking were partying while it started the 40 days of raining. After 40 days the flood covered the earth, and it took all the unrighteous for judgment. So, in Matthew who did God take away?

Matthew 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. NKJV

2 things.
1) Though the Greek words for taken are different, those "taken" in Noah's flood are compared to those "taken" when sleeping in bed. The "taken" are taken away in judgment.
2) When Jesus was asked where they would be "taken" he said they would be taken where vultures gather to the corpse. Again, the "taken" are taken away in judgment.

But what is often not recognized is that both the "taken" and the "left" are being judged. In previous invasions the Hebrews/Jews were taken away into exile and some were always left to manage the fields for their captors. Both groups are being judged.

Where then is the "Rapture," you might ask? This passage is a Jewish prophecy, a prophecy specifically for the nation Israel. The door had not yet been opened for the international Church, and Jesus was not yet predicting that fully.

So what we're reading is God's judgment upon Israel in the NT era until Jesus comes again. Meanwhile, the Romans would invade "in this generation" and take away captives, and leaving others to manage the fields for them. Later, after a long Jewish exile, Jewish believers, who at that time were scarce, would be regathered to the Lord, into heaven, just as the Son of Man comes from heaven (Dan 7).

The international Church has now taken this promise for itself, just as it was given to Jewish believers. Paul made that clear in 1 Thes 4.

 

[Fisherking]

God took all the false christs and false prophets away for judgment.

I will start here, you are missing the overall thrust of what this means. Who is TAKEN AWAY in verses 36-42? The Bride of Christ, REMEMBER, Jesus told us only 5 of the 10 Virgin Brides would be ready, a 50% ratio, so this matches the story in Matthew.

In the New Testament false christs and false prophets are called tares.

No, TARES are Worldly people, the Wheat are ONLY the Jews (which are all 12 Tribes but called Jews because they all now live in Judea) They grow together until the end, signifying that Israel will go through the 70th week (of course) Thus in The Harvest Chapter (Rev. 14) we see the 144,000 (a code for All Israel who Repents or roughly 5 million Jews) and the Wicked Grapes at each end of the end time spectrum, but in the middle of the chapter in vs. 14 we see a sort of Cinematic FLASHBACK to the Pre trib. Rapture where Jesus "from upon a cloud" Harvests the Church.

The above sounds like the rapture of the Church. Verse 38 in the days of Noah just who was taken away? The people that were eating and drinking. Still in verse 38 was Noah and family eating and drinking. No! They were getting on the ark. The ones eating and drinking were partying while it started the 40 days of raining. After 40 days the flood covered the earth, and it took all the unrighteous for judgment. So, in Matthew who did God take away?

I will give an overview of Matt. 24

So, Jesus tells his Disciples the Temple we be torn down, they naturally want to know when, so they ask him THREE QUESTIONS, he answers them about the Temple first, then about his coming, and the End of the [current] Age (coming Kingdom Age). Jesus answers this in a way that he 100 percent can show them what is coming so the church will be able to survive in its infancy, if Jesus had not told them these things the fledgling church might not have survived the 1st Century. So, God/Jesus foreknowing all things, of course forewarned them.

Verses 4-6 is ONLY about the 67-70 AD events (Rome destroys the temple, sacks Jerusalem and then the Diaspora happens). Thus when he says there will be false christs he was warning them about men the Pharisees & Scribes would but forth as the Messiah to "save them from the Fourth Beast (Rome)", and that did historically happen. So, Jesus could not have the Disciples rushing back to Jerusalem, thinking that Jesus had shown up to start his rule, wanting to fight Rome, if that had happened the Churches would have all followed them to Jerusalem, and the early church would have been wiped out. That is why Jesus very clearly tells them in verse 6 that THE END IS NOT YET !! Here is where people get confused, they think verses 7-8 are about the 70th week tribulation, it is not, its about a crescendo of events that take us up to the 70th week END !! The END TIME 70th Week is the KEY HERE. Verses 7-8 are not really that important to the message Jesus is giving his Disciples, except it gives them a demonstration of why THE END WAS NOT YET, so they could not be deceived. He tells them that this, this and this must all happen first, there would be Kingdoms rising and fighting other kingdoms, Nations (Ethos/races) against Nations, Great Famines (think the Black Plague/COVID 19), Earthquakes all getting closer and closer together as a woman's Birth Pangs do. A crescendo effect must come to pass before the 70th week end comes. Now, the Disciples knew that during their lifetimes Rome would not allow other Kingdoms to arise, so they knew this would be much later on. Also, in vs. 14 Jesus tells them before he returns the Gospel must be preached unto all the world, and they knew 100% that in their lifetimes they would never reach India, China nor the Scythians or now known as modern day Russian's.

So, verses 7-8 are not really important to the overall message unto the Disciples because it would not be a part of their lifetimes, it was just Jesus demonstrating WHY........the END WAS NOT YET unto them. Then in verse 9 Jesus goes right back to telling them about their lives and how they would all die, he told them this so they would be ready to die and set a Martyrs example for the church. He tells them they will all be killed, save John. He telling then false prophets (not like in verses 4-6, they were false christs) would betray them, and those false prophets were not Christians, I mean the Disciples were the known HEAD HONCHOS, these were the Jupiter//Zeus types, who were angry that Christendom were taking away their patrons, so they cried unto Rome, some Oracle Woman spoke out against Christianity, and this started the mass killings of Christians in the 1st century. In vs. 13 Jesus warns the Disciples that they MUST ENDURE UNTIL THE END [of their Lives]..........not to the end times. Then in the next verse Jesus tells them when THE END or 70th week End Times would come, when the Gospel is preached unto the ends of the world.

Verses 36-42 is the Matt. 24:14 Rapture. But in verses 15-31 Jesus tells Israel about the 2nd coming first.

 

[d taylor]

-
​

Yes it does and so does Luke 21.

The evidence is strong (overwhelming?) that Matt 24:40-44 refers to the church’s pre-trib Rapture. Indeed, since there is no hint of the Tribulation in John 14:1-3, this is the only place in the Gospels where the Lord Jesus refers to the pre-trib Rapture.

Rest of article here The Rapture in Matthew 24? Nine Proofs – Grace Evangelical Society

https://faithalone.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Hart-Pretrib-Mt-24-Article-1-edited.pdf

 

[fli]

I will start here, you are missing the overall thrust of what this means. Who is TAKEN AWAY in verses 36-42? The Bride of Christ, REMEMBER, Jesus told us only 5 of the 10 Virgin Brides would be ready, a 50% ratio, so this matches the story in Matthew.


No, TARES are Worldly people, the Wheat are ONLY the Jews (which are all 12 Tribes but called Jews because they all now live in Judea) They grow together until the end, signifying that Israel will go through the 70th week (of course) Thus in The Harvest Chapter (Rev. 14) we see the 144,000 (a code for All Israel who Repents or roughly 5 million Jews) and the Wicked Grapes at each end of the end time spectrum, but in the middle of the chapter in vs. 14 we see a sort of Cinematic FLASHBACK to the Pre trib. Rapture where Jesus "from upon a cloud" Harvests the Church.

Mr Fisherking

Matthew 13:24"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. NKJV

The kingdom was taken away from the Israelis, so He is talking about the Church.

The good seed is the Church, true believers, tares are plants that look like wheat. The tares are worldly people that claim to be Christian just like the tare claims to be wheat. If you read the parable true believers cannot tell the wheat from the tare according to God. If the believer cannot tell the difference, then the tare must claim to be Christian.

Well, I tried a multi quote and it didn't work.

Mr RandyPNW

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. NKJV

The tares are taken for judgment.

Isaiah 40:31 But those who wait on the Lord Shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary,
They shall walk and not faint. NKJV

In most churches there are tares and believers. The eagles are waiting for the Lord. Those churches that have people left means they are not tares and you can truth their witness of Jesus.

God is not talking about Israel. He told the parable about the tares to His disciples and started “the kingdom of heaven.....”

Mr SabbathBlessings

The I never knew you proves that they never were saved. The tare's doctrine is such they cannot be saved. If their doctrine is correct, then they are not a tare.

As to the work of God.

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." NKJV

Your wrong, above states the work of God.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. NKJV

You may not consider the commandments to be part of the law, but Paul did. When Paul wrote we are not under the law he also meant the commandments also as can be seen in the above.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NKJV

If we keep those two commandments we abide in Him.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
NKJV

We have passed from death to life if we keep the second commandment. Why, don't we need to keep the 10 commandments and the other one in 1John?

No! Because we can only keep the commandment if we keep the first because we are supposed to love the brethren as Jesus loved us. If we are in Jesus, we have the love of Jesus in us, and He fulfills for what we lack. If we had to keep all the 10, we would not be able to say when we are truly saved. Loving our brethren does not equal love our neighbor. When we love our brethren, we are also loving Jesus with the love Jesus loved us with because what we do to a believer we do to Jesus. So, you can see the only way you could keep the first four of the 10, you have to abide in Jesus.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. NKJV

Jesus fulfills the law for us as long as we walk in the Spirit. So, again you can see, we can only stay in the Spirit if we abide in Jesus. That means if we keep the 2 commandments in 1John 3: 21-22 we will be abiding in Jesus

 

[keras]

Matthew 24 does not describe a 'rapture'. To heaven, only the gathering to where Jesus will be - in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:31

Matthew 24:46 Happy is that servant if his master comes home and finds him at work. Reiterated in Matthew 28:19-20
There will be no skiving off for anyone, we must continue to fulfil our responsibilities until the end.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Just where are these people taken?

Luke 17:34-37 KJV
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The people taken go to their deaths where they are eaten by vultures.

Certainly not a rapture...

These are the people who failed to flee as Jesus instructed. They will be killed in the approaching war.

Revelation 19:17-18 KJV
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

 

[RandyPNW]

Mr RandyPNW

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. NKJV

The tares are taken for judgment.

Of course the tares are taken for judgment. We agree.

Isaiah 40:31 But those who wait on the Lord Shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary,
They shall walk and not faint. NKJV

In most churches there are tares and believers. The eagles are waiting for the Lord. Those churches that have people left means they are not tares and you can truth their witness of Jesus.

If you're talking about the "eagles" of the Olivet Discourse, I think they refer to the gathering of Roman vultures to the corpse of national Israel. The Romans had standards with eagles on them, which they worshiped as a god. They were, according to Jewish Law, an "abomination."

Those "left behind" in the Olivet Discourse are Jews that are judged by God via the Romans and are left to maintain the fields for their captors, in m;y opinion.

God is not talking about Israel. He told the parable about the tares to His disciples and started “the kingdom of heaven.....”

In the Gospels Jesus is always talking to *Israel.* And that's because before the Gospel went international, Israel was God's only "chosen nation."

Even in talking to his disciples Jesus was still addressing *Israel.* Jesus was well aware that only a small remnant of Israel would have faith. But he came to preach to them all.

Since Israel was the model of a theocracy, Christian nations have been warned in the Bible about the spiritual decline that happened in Israel, leading to judgment. Many former Christian nations are now looking at certain judgment at Armageddon, or even before.

 

[Fisherking]

Mr Fisherking

Matthew 13:24"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. NKJV

The kingdom was taken away from the Israelis, so He is talking about the Church.

No, as a preacher of 40 plus years with a bent towards prophesy, this is just you falling for bad info from hucksters somewhere down the line. There will still be the promised Kingdom Age, during the 1000 year reign. Church is not on earth during the 70th week. Anyone who can't figure that one out will never understand prophesy in full, its like a guy getting on a Freeway to Canada when he's supposed to be heading to California, it aint happening !!

The good seed is the Church, true believers, tares are plants that look like wheat. The tares are worldly people that claim to be Christian just like the tare claims to be wheat. If you read the parable true believers cannot tell the wheat from the tare according to God. If the believer cannot tell the difference, then the tare must claim to be Christian.

Well, I tried a multi quote and it didn't work.

The Church will not grow to the end with the tares, we are taken to the wedding in heaven. Israel are already married to the Father, that is why the 144,000 (5 million men & women) have the Fathers name on her foreheads.

 

[Fisherking]

Matthew 24 does not describe a 'rapture'. To heaven, only the gathering to where Jesus will be - in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:31

Matthew 24:46 Happy is that servant if his master comes home and finds him at work. Reiterated in Matthew 28:19-20
There will be no skiving off for anyone, we must continue to fulfil our responsibilities until the end.

I see you are still in error on almost everything brother. I do not get how its possible tome wrong on 95% of everything a person espouses.

 

[Fisherking]

Of course the tares are taken for judgment. We agree.

It just means you are both in error.

If you're talking about the "eagles" of the Olivet Discourse, I think they refer to the gathering of Roman vultures to the corpse of national Israel. The Romans had standards with eagles on them, which they worshiped as a god. They were, according to Jewish Law, an "abomination."

That is just an idiom, Jesus is foretelling about Where he will be when he returns, in the Eastern Skies, but also at Armageddon, the Eagles are always where the carcasses are at, and he and the Church (called Fowls of heaven in Rev. 19) will be at Armageddon [where the carcasses are at.

 

[keras]

I see you are still in error on almost everything brother. I do not get how its possible tome wrong on 95% of everything a person espouses.

Not error, brother; just opposing your wrong beliefs.

The faithful peoples who will be gathered when Jesus Returns, do not go to heaven. Or the great multitude in Rev 7:9. They are two different times when the Christian peoples will be relocated on earth. both times to the Holy Land.

 

[RandyPNW]

Church is not on earth during the 70th week. Anyone who can't figure that one out will never understand prophesy in full, its like a guy getting on a Freeway to Canada when he's supposed to be heading to California, it aint happening !!

What an awful argument! An insult proves your argument for a Pretrib Rapture? Others are suppose to just "figure it out?"

The Church will not grow to the end with the tares, we are taken to the wedding in heaven. Israel are already married to the Father, that is why the 144,000 (5 million men & women) have the Fathers name on her foreheads.

I don't believe in a Pretrib Rapture of the Church because 1) the Bible does not teach that as a theology, and 2) the Bible actually teaches against it, ie provides a Postrib theology.

Why must someone "figure this out" when it is in plain black and white?

2 Thes 2.1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

Furthermore, there is no indication that the 70th Week of Daniel should be disconnected from the 69th Week. This is highly unlikely, and such an interpretation should be instantly questioned, in my opinion.

 

[fli]

No, as a preacher of 40 plus years with a bent towards prophesy, this is just you falling for bad info from hucksters somewhere down the line. There will still be the promised Kingdom Age, during the 1000 year reign. Church is not on earth during the 70th week. Anyone who can't figure that one out will never understand prophesy in full, its like a guy getting on a Freeway to Canada when he's supposed to be heading to California, it aint happening !!
Matthew 21:43-45

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." 45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. NKJV

I will believe Jesus in this. He took the kingdom from natural Israel.

The Church will not grow to the end with the tares, we are taken to the wedding in heaven. Israel are already married to the Father, that is why the 144,000 (5 million men & women) have the Fathers name on her foreheads.

Matthew 13:24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' 29 But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'" NKJV
Jesus says that the tares will survive until the end of the age. He will remove them just prior to when he gathers the wheat (His Church).

 

[Fisherking]

Not error, brother; just opposing your wrong beliefs.

The faithful peoples who will be gathered when Jesus Returns, do not go to heaven. Or the great multitude in Rev 7:9. They are two different times when the Christian peoples will be relocated on earth. both times to the Holy Land.

NO........those see in Rev 7:8-16 are the Pre Trib. Raptured Church who came out of Great Tribulation (Church Age Tribulation, the 10 (Completion) Days of the Church Age which means the COMLPETE Church Age. In John 16:33 Jesus told us we would have continual tribulation on this earth. MILLIONS of Christians have been murdered during the Church Age. Once the wedding has started (Pre Trib. Rapture calling) the doors will be closed, no one from the 70th week goes to heaven. You guys conflate everything all because you can not grasp the raptures simple timing. We SEE where the Martyrs are judged, they are NOT IN HEAVEN, they get judged after the 2nd coming in Rev. 20:4. BOOM, that alone proves those who die during the 70th week never go to heaven, think man. Those saints under the altar at the 5th seal are told what? To "WAIT A LITTLE SEASON" (3.5 years) and then they would get their vengeance, so no one who dies during the 70th week goes to heaven, those in Rev. 7:9-16 can only be the Pre Trib. Raptured Church, once the Marriage has started Jesus told us THE DOORS WILL BE SHUT. Why is this so hard? Because guys place their beliefs over the factoids being given us.

God bless, you will see very soon brother you were in error on the Pre Trib. Rapture. Sit back and enjoy the blast off. Its like a person fighting himself.

 

[Fisherking]

What an awful argument! An insult proves your argument for a Pretrib Rapture? Others are suppose to just "figure it out?"

You guys always cry about insults when you get defeated on a point brother. Meanwhile I have guys that agree with you say we are False Prophets and I never complain. Get a grip brother, the bible tells us that crossing swords helps us come unto truths. It really doesn't matter in the end, if you are wrong you are wrong, God doesn't really care about how we come unto the truth. When the money changers were wrong Jesus whipped them, I am just proving that your ideas on the subject are in error brother, so as to not let others go down the same wrong path.

I don't believe in a Pretrib Rapture of the Church because 1) the Bible does not teach that as a theology, and 2) the Bible actually teaches against it, ie provides a Postrib theology.

You believing or not doesn't change God's truths brother. The bible clearly teaches the pre trib. rapture, you being able to see it is a whole 'nother issue.

The bible does no such thing, you are conflating passages. The whole END TIME TIMING will only fit via a Pre Trib. Rapture. Once you are raptured and see the truths instantaneously, you will be like how did I miss this. My thing is how many youth will go through the tribulation or 70th week needlessly, all because they believed like this "Hey. if I have to go through the tribulation anyway, I might as well repent at that time" and then once in the 70th week, after the Rapture, they will find no support from brothers and once the AC grabs their mother/dad or Girl Friend or vice versa and tortures those people how many of those will take the Mark of the Beast all because they can not stand against these things all because they were told, there is no Pre Trib. Rapture. So, there is a reason I get upset at this untruth being spread. It is what it is.

Why must someone "figure this out" when it is in plain black and white?

2 Thes 2.1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

The facts are this is about the Church DEPARTING from this earth, not from FAITH. The first 7 English translation had DEPART not Falling Away. The very first verse alludes to a what? A GATHERING TOGETHER unto Jesus............a RAPTURE. The truth is, this is simply saying that before God's Wrath can come the Departure or Rapture must come first AND the Man of Sin must also show up before the Wrath of God. "Of course this has to be true", he makes the 7 Year Covenant (Agreement) so he has to also show up before the Wrath of God falls in the middle of the 70th week at the 1260 events.

You want to buy into the Church of England's untruth, in the KJV they were simply taking a swipe at the RCC by changing this to a "falling away" instead of a "Departure". The bible never confuses us when we allow the whole bible to mesh as one, people who take single verses and run with them do things like happened to Joseph Smith, they get off centered. Any single scripture can be confused by Satan, but not the overall bible, it will always stamp out the confusion. For instance Dan. 7:11 says the Beast is Killed his BODY DESTROYED and he is cast into hellfire. But Rev. 19:20 says the Beast is CAST ALIVE into hell, well which is it? This is how Satan confuses the masses at times. But the answer is he is killed and CAST ALIVE into hell, our spirit man never dies. We "SLEEP" or rest in the grave, as 1 Cor. 15:50-52 AND Dan. 12:1-2 says, but the Anti-Christ will never be allowed to sleep until the 2nd Resurrection like all of the other Wicked Tares who are bound for burning at a later date. (1000 years later). You call it a Rebellion, but its a DEARTURE [from this earth] not from the faith which is NEVER SPOKEN ABOUT, find me one place in that whole passage that speaks about FAITH........I will wait........you can not do it, but the very first verse speaks about a Gathering unto Christ Jesus (a Rapture).

Furthermore, there is no indication that the 70th Week of Daniel should be disconnected from the 69th Week. This is highly unlikely, and such an interpretation should be instantly questioned, in my opinion.

You defeat your own argument here, AD 33 plus 7 years is AD 40, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70 which was 37 years after Jesus' death. That shows a GAP right there. Its destroys your whole thesis brother. The Statue's feet is IRON & CLAY so its not just Rome, its Rome (Iron) and Clay (the 10 or Complete Nations that arise later to become the E.U.) The Church Age is inserted whilst Israel were seen by God as Dead Men's Bones. This is about Israel's 70 weeks or 490 years of Penance, Israel was not a nation for nigh 2000 years, God will bring Israel back unto him (the 1/3 who repent in Zech. 13:8-9 JUST BEFORE the DOTL falls in Zech. 14:1-2) in the end times, not 2000 years ago. If read correctly, there is no verse 26, half goes with verse 25 and the other half goes with verse 27. It's 2 prophetic timelines combined and one prophetic timeline separated from the other two as clearly shown below.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks(69 Weeks notice the AND): the street shall be built again(7 Weeks or 49 YEARS), and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself(62 Weeks or 334 YEARS): Then we simply add up 334 and 49 which = 69 weeks or 383 years leaving 7 years of penance left and Israel MUST TURN BACK unto God before the 70th week ends, so says God in the very prophesy my brother. That REPENTANCE happens at the very end as Zech. 13:8-9 & Zech. 14:1 shows us. That is why the below should have been separated like I show. There were no verses nor chapters remember, the KJV did that. Again they got it wrong here.

and the people(Romans/E.U. later on) of the prince that shall come (AC 2000 years later) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood(Rome destroyed the temple and sent the Jews off via the Diaspora), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined(The Jews were carried away and seen as Dead Men's Bones by God for nigh 2000 years). 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many [NATIONS] for one week(7 YEARS): and in the midst of the week(1290) he shall cause(via the False Prophet or Jewish High Priest in charge in Israel) the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(After Israel repents at the 1335 they FORBID Jesus Worship in the Temple), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate(for 1260 days or really 1290 days, since this happens 30 days before the AC conquers Israel and THE MANY to become The Beast at the 1260. This gives Israel 30 days to flee Judea).

 

[Clare73]

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. NKJV
The above sounds like the rapture of the Church.

It is the "catching up" (harpazo) of the saints (1 Th 4:16-17) at the second coming.

Verse 38 in the days of Noah just who was taken away? The people that were eating and drinking. Still in verse 38 was Noah and family eating and drinking. No! They were getting on the ark. The ones eating and drinking were partying while it started the 40 days of raining. After 40 days the flood covered the earth, and it took all the unrighteous for judgment. So, in Matthew who did God take away?
Matthew 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. NKJV

God took all the false christs and false prophets away for judgment. In the New Testament false christs and false prophets are called tares. Tares are people that call themselves” Christians” but they are not. Their doctrine is such that how they say to become a Christian will not get anyone into the kingdom of God. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy therefore, they are false prophets. When they say” Christ is in our church” you will not find Him there. Jesus will come and take the tares for judgment. The tares, as in the days of Noah, are the carcass that are left. The eagles in Noah's day sailed away in the ark.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' NKJV

Jesus told us that there would be some people, tares, calling Him Lord claiming that their works qualified them for salvation. Most, if not all of the tare denominations, claim that certain works qualifies people as Christians. That is false prophecy. Verse 22 above the people are claiming those works qualified them for salvation by Jesus. There are Christians who did some of the same “miracles”. The Christians who did those works did those works because they were saved, not to be saved, and they received power from God to do those works.

 

[Fisherking]

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." 45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. NKJV

I will believe Jesus in this. He took the kingdom from natural Israel.

The problem is you PICK & CHOOSE, we all already know the kingdom of God or job of taking the Gospel unto the world was taken away from Israel and given unto the Gentiles, (in general not in full because some Jews are still Messianic Jews) but we also know Israel had a different calling than the church, just like you and I have different callings by God, which should make this easier to understand but it never does. Israel were called to birth the Redeemer/Messiah Jesus or Salvation which is what Yeshua means. Then God knew Israel would reject Jesus but he also knew the world would never receive a gospel from one nation about their God so He allowed select gentiles to be converted and then those same gentiles to spread the gospel, first via Asia Minor, then through Rome and the Latin Vulgate. But when the Church is Raptured, the 70th week penance will fall upon Israel, they will be crushed into repentance, then the promised Kingdom Age will come, with Jesus ruling from Jerusalem for 1000 years. So, the biggest problem is you see what you want to see, you pick and choose. In Rom. 11 it clearly states ALL Israel will be saved, meaning the Nation of Israel will repent, we ate told this way back in the old testament time and again. You believe only half of what God is telling us about Israel, the other half you close your eyes unto. Its a grand plan, not a mini 5 verse plan.

Jesus says that the tares will survive until the end of the age. He will remove them just prior to when he gathers the wheat (His Church).

Jesus came only for the Lost Sheep of Israel as per unto his Ministry. He would not even allow the 70 to go forth unto anyone else until after his death. Eve when he FRETOLD of Israel losing the Kingdom he told it unto Jews not Gentiles. So, his Wheat vs. Tares is about Israel (Wheat) and the World (Tares).

 

[keras]

God bless, you will see very soon brother you were in error on the Pre Trib. Rapture. Sit back and enjoy the blast off. Its like a person fighting himself.

If it is error to reject the belief of a pre-trib rapture, then I am in good company, as Jesus rejected it too. - I do not pray You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. John 17:15
Jesus also asks the Father to protect His disciples, by the power of His Holy Name. John 17:11

blast off? You are horribly deceived and the end times will shock you.

Jesus came only for the Lost Sheep of Israel as per unto his Ministry.

Matthew 15:24 says ; Jesus came to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
Who are NOT the Jews of the House of Judah.
Revelation 2 to 3; the Letters to the 7 Churchs, make it clear who the true Israelites are. The Overcomers for God, His faithful Christians, who proved their faith by standing firm during the times of tribulation.