Does going forward in an evangelical meeting true conversion?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

How is it that in many evangelical meetings, many go forward in response to the invitation to receive Christ, spend a couple of minutes praying the sinner's prayer, but there is no increase in the attendance of the churches? Is it because most who make a verbal commitment to Christ leave the meeting and go on living the same way as before? "I prayed the sinners prayer, I now believe in Christ therefore I'm saved now." Really? How about conviction of sin, repentance with tears, forsaking all known sin, striving to purify oneself? I wonder how many went forward at an altar call, prayed the sinner's prayer, carried on for a couple of months, and then decided that it wasn't working for them. Someone has said that the greatest enemy to true conversion is easy believer evangelism where all that is needed is for the person to go forward, make a verbal commitment and then go off and live life as before. No agonising over sin, no spending time in prayer and seeking God for a sanctified life; just turning up to church on Sunday morning to do their religious duty. Would that be what the Scripture says, "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."

 

[HTacianas]

How is it that in many evangelical meetings, many go forward in response to the invitation to receive Christ, spend a couple of minutes praying the sinner's prayer, but there is no increase in the attendance of the churches? Is it because most who make a verbal commitment to Christ leave the meeting and go on living the same way as before? "I prayed the sinners prayer, I now believe in Christ therefore I'm saved now." Really? How about conviction of sin, repentance with tears, forsaking all known sin, striving to purify oneself? I wonder how many went forward at an altar call, prayed the sinner's prayer, carried on for a couple of months, and then decided that it wasn't working for them. Someone has said that the greatest enemy to true conversion is easy believer evangelism where all that is needed is for the person to go forward, make a verbal commitment and then go off and live life as before. No agonising over sin, no spending time in prayer and seeking God for a sanctified life; just turning up to church on Sunday morning to do their religious duty. Would that be what the Scripture says, "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."

That once again brings up a question. Was Simon Magus a Christian?

 

[Unqualified]

Many are called few are chosen.’ Being on the road or rocky ground. No root in themselves.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That once again brings up a question. Was Simon Magus a Christian?

If he didn't show the fruit of repentance then he wasn't.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Many are called few are chosen.’ Being on the road or rocky ground. No root in themselves.

It may be the reason why so many church services are flat and lifeless, when we believe in a risen, glorified Christ. Something's a bit out of kilter there. Perhaps there is much mental assent to religion that gives lip service to God and Christ, but the heart is unchanged, making the people still dead in their sins. There are only two types of people in the world: Those who are dead in their sins, and those who are dead in Christ. There is no middle ground. This makes the Scripture relevant: "This people honour Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me."

 

[Unqualified]

It could be the unrepentant too. Some churches you don’t have to repent. The Jews are Gods people but we far in their focus on material things And other gods Or on the law. Christians who forsake the meeting of the saints, or who want their ears tickled.

 

[disciple Clint]

How is it that in many evangelical meetings, many go forward in response to the invitation to receive Christ, spend a couple of minutes praying the sinner's prayer, but there is no increase in the attendance of the churches? Is it because most who make a verbal commitment to Christ leave the meeting and go on living the same way as before? "I prayed the sinners prayer, I now believe in Christ therefore I'm saved now." Really? How about conviction of sin, repentance with tears, forsaking all known sin, striving to purify oneself? I wonder how many went forward at an altar call, prayed the sinner's prayer, carried on for a couple of months, and then decided that it wasn't working for them. Someone has said that the greatest enemy to true conversion is easy believer evangelism where all that is needed is for the person to go forward, make a verbal commitment and then go off and live life as before. No agonising over sin, no spending time in prayer and seeking God for a sanctified life; just turning up to church on Sunday morning to do their religious duty. Would that be what the Scripture says, "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."

That is an interesting question but it is answered several times in the Bible, what must I do to be saved, you must believe and accept, it is that simple, anything beyond that is salvation through works which is impossible, so are works required? No but if there are no works then there was no belief and acceptance, it would be much like saying to your father, I love you but I never want to see or talk to you again, if we are saved we want relationship with God and if we have relationship we will do the works that are the evidence of our faith.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is an interesting question but it is answered several times in the Bible, what must I do to be saved, you must believe and accept, it is that simple, anything beyond that is salvation through works which is impossible, so are works required? No but if there are no works then there was no belief and acceptance, it would be much like saying to your father, I love you but I never want to see or talk to you again, if we are saved we want relationship with God and if we have relationship we will do the works that are the evidence of our faith.

Why is it that the preaching that all we have to do is to believe and accept, that the churches are full of false converts who have no real fear of God, and who after saying the sinner's prayer have gone on to live their lives as normal?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The big question that we all have to ask ourselves: How do we know that we are really saved?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It could be the unrepentant too. Some churches you don’t have to repent. The Jews are Gods people but we far in their focus on material things And other gods Or on the law. Christians who forsake the meeting of the saints, or who want their ears tickled.

It is interesting to note that 2000 years ago 120 believers got filled with the Holy Spirit, and the whole city was turned upside down and 3000 souls turned to Christ.

There is a mega church in a city that boasts of having 4000 people filled with the Holy Spirit, and most people outside of that church don't even know that it is there.

I wonder what the difference is. Are the 4000 people filled with another "holy spirit" that is not the same as the 120?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How is it that in many evangelical meetings, many go forward in response to the invitation to receive Christ, spend a couple of minutes praying the sinner's prayer, but there is no increase in the attendance of the churches? Is it because most who make a verbal commitment to Christ leave the meeting and go on living the same way as before? "I prayed the sinners prayer, I now believe in Christ therefore I'm saved now." Really? How about conviction of sin, repentance with tears, forsaking all known sin, striving to purify oneself? I wonder how many went forward at an altar call, prayed the sinner's prayer, carried on for a couple of months, and then decided that it wasn't working for them. Someone has said that the greatest enemy to true conversion is easy believer evangelism where all that is needed is for the person to go forward, make a verbal commitment and then go off and live life as before. No agonising over sin, no spending time in prayer and seeking God for a sanctified life; just turning up to church on Sunday morning to do their religious duty. Would that be what the Scripture says, "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."

I think the important thing is, the seed has been planted. The next steps is how that seed will grow. Some people have a radical conversion and experience regeneration right at that time but I suspect most do not. That being said, they still take away the most important part of the Gospel, Jesus Christ of Nazareth and His Kingdom. If they embrace this truth, love will increase and hearts will begin to soften preparing them for His Holy Spirit.
Blessings.

 

[Unqualified]

It may be the reason why so many church services are flat and lifeless, when we believe in a risen, glorified Christ. Something's a bit out of kilter there. Perhaps there is much mental assent to religion that gives lip service to God and Christ, but the heart is unchanged, making the people still dead in their sins. There are only two types of people in the world: Those who are dead in their sins, and those who are dead in Christ. There is no middle ground. This makes the Scripture relevant: "This people honour Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me."

A seed has been planted and sometimes takes a while to grow. True conversion happens when there is fruit to repentance. But what are you actually asserting : that there are so few true conversions?! Yes your last quote, the Bible speaks truth. Accept it. There were only 500 witness after Jesus ministry and many for Paul, but the time of the Gentiles is drawing to a close. I’ve heard people say the church is dead. At least not many witnesses. Your right about the HS, should be much more activity towards the world. And if the church tithed the world could be changed too. But these are the end times, the beginning of sorrows and you are sorrowing. You keep up the good work ,make sure you go in the rapture. The HS spirit saved me. We must endure a not perfect world until the end.
and let the church know about it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How is it that in many evangelical meetings, many go forward in response to the invitation to receive Christ, spend a couple of minutes praying the sinner's prayer, but there is no increase in the attendance of the churches? Is it because most who make a verbal commitment to Christ leave the meeting and go on living the same way as before? "I prayed the sinners prayer, I now believe in Christ therefore I'm saved now." Really? How about conviction of sin, repentance with tears, forsaking all known sin, striving to purify oneself? I wonder how many went forward at an altar call, prayed the sinner's prayer, carried on for a couple of months, and then decided that it wasn't working for them. Someone has said that the greatest enemy to true conversion is easy believer evangelism where all that is needed is for the person to go forward, make a verbal commitment and then go off and live life as before. No agonising over sin, no spending time in prayer and seeking God for a sanctified life; just turning up to church on Sunday morning to do their religious duty. Would that be what the Scripture says, "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."

A person doesn’t have to attend church to love and serve God. I haven’t attended church in about 3 years but I’ve never turned away from God. My relationship with God is personal and I can converse with Him and worship Him anywhere any time. The reason I stopped attending my church is because as I grew in my knowledge of the scriptures I came to question their theology and when I spoke to the pastor in private about it he couldn’t answer my questions concerning eternal security. My church has an affiliation with the Alliance Church organization and I fear that the pastor is not allowed to teach anything that is contrary to the Alliance organization’s statement of faith. I still love my church family I just don’t see any point in attacking the service when I often disagree with the message and instead of getting frustrated listening to someone preach when I want to stand up and start questioning the preacher’s message and instead of just sitting there biting my tongue I just choose not to participate in it. I haven’t felt a need to look for another church, I converse with Christians here instead. I still converse with my friends from my old church I just don’t want to attend their service.

 

[Unqualified]

A person doesn’t have to attend church to love and serve God. I haven’t attended church in about 3 years but I’ve never turned away from God. My relationship with God is personal and I can converse with Him and worship Him anywhere any time. The reason I stopped attending my church is because as I grew in my knowledge of the scriptures I came to question their theology and when I spoke to the pastor in private about it he couldn’t answer my questions concerning eternal security. My church has an affiliation with the Alliance Church organization and I fear that the pastor is not allowed to teach anything that is contrary to the Alliance organization’s statement of faith. I still love my church family I just don’t see any point in attacking the service when I often disagree with the message and instead of getting frustrated listening to someone preach when I want to stand up and start questioning the preacher’s message and instead of just sitting there biting my tongue I just choose not to participate in it. I haven’t felt a need to look for another church, I converse with Christians here instead. I still converse with my friends from my old church I just don’t want to attend their service.

what about God’s command not to forsake the meeting of the saints. Hebrews 10:25

 

[BNR32FAN]

what about God’s command not to forsake the meeting of the saints. Hebrews 10:25

Hence the reason I’m here on CF.

 

[1Tonne]

The church has been filled with many false converts. I believe that this has happened for 2 reasons.
First is because we have taken away the law from the Gospel (if it is mentioned, it is skimmed over). Before we say the Good News, people need to know why they need the Good News. If they do not see their sin in it's true light, then they will continue in their sin. So, they may believe in the sacrifice that Jesus did, but they do not turn from their sin because they do not see the seriousness of it. If they see the seriousness of their sin, then they will turn from it. Who wouldn't turn from their sin, if they truly knew that it was going to lead to condemnation? Only a fool would stay in their sin.
The second reason why the church has been filled with false converts is because the church puts more faith in their friendships to bring the lost to Christ than they do in the Gospel. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Not our friendships. Most believes do not tell the Gospel very often. What believers do instead is they befriend a person and then they do kind acts in the hope that the lost friend will see Christ in him. Then over time, they get to be better friends and the non-believer is invited to church. He comes and makes friends with other church goers and hears the Gospel (not preceded with this law). Then he says he is a believer and says a prayer and is now accepted by the congregation as saved. But in reality, his real reason for being there is the companionship of others. In his heart, he does not have a true understanding of his sin or the cross.
In saying this, we are to make friends and do friendship evangelism, but that is just who we are. That is our everyday living. We are not really going out of our way to save the lost. By our good and kind deeds, people will then see how we act and that it aligns with the Bible. So, our actions substantiate our faith. If our actions align with what we believe, then when we say what we believe, it gives it credibility.
We need to put more faith in saying the Gospel. That is why Jesus commanded us to preach the Gospel to every creature. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
So, learn how to share the Gospel. Put in the effort to learn and then tell the lost. You will most likely stuff it up but still continue and evaluate how to say it better. Be a courageous soldier. Not a coward.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think the important thing is, the seed has been planted. The next steps is how that seed will grow. Some people have a radical conversion and experience regeneration right at that time but I suspect most do not. That being said, they still take away the most important part of the Gospel, Jesus Christ of Nazareth and His Kingdom. If they embrace this truth, love will increase and hearts will begin to soften preparing them for His Holy Spirit.
Blessings.

Should we be satisfied that in spite of the number of mega churches in our main cities, the secular community at large don't even know they are there, much less having any real impact on it? Perhaps most churches have confined their Christianity within their four walls, insulated from the community at large. Quite different for the 120 in the upper room who got filled with the Holy Spirit and then went out on the street where the people were and where Peter preached the Gospel. If 120 filled with the Spirit turned Jerusalem upside down, would the 4000 people in a mega church saying that they are filled with the same Spirit be mistaken in their belief that they are actually filled with the Holy Spirit when there is no impact on their city at all?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

A seed has been planted and sometimes takes a while to grow. True conversion happens when there is fruit to repentance. But what are you actually asserting : that there are so few true conversions?! Yes your last quote, the Bible speaks truth. Accept it. There were only 500 witness after Jesus ministry and many for Paul, but the time of the Gentiles is drawing to a close. I’ve heard people say the church is dead. At least not many witnesses. Your right about the HS, should be much more activity towards the world. And if the church tithed the world could be changed too. But these are the end times, the beginning of sorrows and you are sorrowing. You keep up the good work ,make sure you go in the rapture. The HS spirit saved me. We must endure a not perfect world until the end.
and let the church know about it.

In comparison with the early church that began with the 120 in the upper room, our modern church is a mere damp squib. Whose fault is that? Our modern church is failing to make any impression on our secular community. In spite of the many mega churches, and all the hallelujah hootenannies going on, homosexuality is increasing, abortions are commonplace, the transgender community is forcing people to adopt alternative pronouns to "he" and "she", to validate themselves. Crime is on the increase with mass shootings happening all over the United States. In NZ this week there have been more than six ramraids of convenience stores around the country. Where is the church? Nowhere. It's stuck within its own four walls, being self indulgent, preaching to each other with no effect. My view is that the reason why the church has no answer for our modern secular community is that they have religion but no Holy Spirit. If the church did have the Holy Spirit, there would be a marked effect on the community around it. In most cases churches are pretending to have the Holy Spirit, when all they have is man's programmes and man's wisdom.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

A person doesn’t have to attend church to love and serve God. I haven’t attended church in about 3 years but I’ve never turned away from God. My relationship with God is personal and I can converse with Him and worship Him anywhere any time. The reason I stopped attending my church is because as I grew in my knowledge of the scriptures I came to question their theology and when I spoke to the pastor in private about it he couldn’t answer my questions concerning eternal security. My church has an affiliation with the Alliance Church organization and I fear that the pastor is not allowed to teach anything that is contrary to the Alliance organization’s statement of faith. I still love my church family I just don’t see any point in attacking the service when I often disagree with the message and instead of getting frustrated listening to someone preach when I want to stand up and start questioning the preacher’s message and instead of just sitting there biting my tongue I just choose not to participate in it. I haven’t felt a need to look for another church, I converse with Christians here instead. I still converse with my friends from my old church I just don’t want to attend their service.

The reason why you don't want to attend the church service is that it is basically dead. If the Holy Spirit was really there, you would not want to keep away from it. As a true believer, you would be drawn to it because in the presence of the Lord is fullness of joy. The trouble is that there is no presence of the Lord in that church and because of that there is nothing there to attract you.

 

[1Tonne]

I haven’t attended church in about 3 years but I’ve never turned away from God. My relationship with God is personal and I can converse with Him and worship Him anywhere any time. The reason I stopped attending my church is because as I grew in my knowledge of the scriptures I came to question their theology and when I spoke to the pastor in private about it he couldn’t answer my questions concerning eternal security. My church has an affiliation with the Alliance Church organization and I fear that the pastor is not allowed to teach anything that is contrary to the Alliance organization’s statement of faith. I still love my church family I just don’t see any point in attacking the service when I often disagree with the message and instead of getting frustrated listening to someone preach when I want to stand up and start questioning the preacher’s message and instead of just sitting there biting my tongue I just choose not to participate in it. I haven’t felt a need to look for another church, I converse with Christians here instead. I still converse with my friends from my old church I just don’t want to attend their service.

We each can sharpen one another. By not going, you may be letting your fellow brothers down. If there is a wrong teaching, you can politely come against it and in time, they may come to their senses. (This can be a battle and it can take a toll on you)
I too have had a similar issue where there were untruths preached in the church. My pastor taught that we no longer should be going out into the streets preaching the Gospel, but instead, we are now to do friendship evangelism to get people into the church. I have said that this is not right, and I go to the parks, and I tell people the Gospel. At first, many of the church goers were against what I was doing because it went against the pastor's teaching. They told me that the Holy Spirit was not in what I was doing. But recently, I have had more and more of the congregation come to me and say that what I am doing is right. Even some of those who were originally in agreeance with the pastor. And now, some of them are even thinking about coming out and sharing the Gospel in public with me. So, stick in there and gently guide and correct. (Sometimes you may have to use a little force but do it in love that they will come to know what is true and correct)