Does 'Goddidit' constitute an explanation?

[kenblaster5000]

Please stop posting random Bible quotes, it adds nothing to the discussion.

It adds evidence of morality to the discussion. The bible seems to list some things that are works of the flesh. How would you explain morality and the brains ability to think. How do we explain things that are not tangible. How do you explain how the wind exists, if you cannot see it? Yes, you feel it, or you see it blow through the trees. Why do some disregard the evidence that God's Spirit has blown into our lives, and evidence that it has changed us? Does evolution give you a sense of purpose and where do you get that sense of purpose from? God gives me a sense of purpose. How do you explain terms like hope. Like, I hope I can get out of this mess, if there truly is a righteous God?

 

[Gracchus]

How would you explain morals?

Even monkeys have a sense of fairness. No society is possible when every member acts without considering the actions and reactions of others.

How do we conceive of what is right and wrong?

Freshman philosophy! One answer: Right is what I, or some consensus, approves of; likewise, wrong.

How do we have opinions about this being right, but someone else thinking it is wrong.

When two or more disagree, at least one must be wrong, unless it is a matter of taste. (De gustibus non disputandum est.) But of course, everyone could be wrong. It has happened so.

Let us pretend we all are creationists. If there was a creator who is perfect, would it not make sense that He would give us a conscience, knowing right and wrong. A sense of morality.

But why would he make it so danged easy to violate that sense?

For instance, killing is not right,..

... except when it is.

... and stealing is not fair nor trustworthy.

Actually, many people can be trusted to steal, given the opportunity to get away with the loot. And most of us have the occasional opportunity, so that is fair, even if we don't take advantage of it.

Speaking what is not true about another is malicious and slanderous.

Truth can be just as malicious, even moreso, it is usually just not as ready to hand.

Would it not make you mad if someone made all kinds of untrue slanderous comments about you?

The curses of the evildoer are as precious as the praise of angels.

Does not the God in the bible have a personality of anger, howbeit pure righteous anger.

Sure does!

What of other emotions? Love, lust, longing for a loved one who is far of.

Sometimes emotion is just the flow of hormones, sometimes it is the comfort and security of the familiar.

Does not God long for us, to know us, to reach out and let us know that He exists.

And yet so many perish horribly, so many. 200,000 are suddenly dead in Haiti, and that is only the start of the misery. The help God sends is death.

He sent His Son, gave us the bible, and told us of His Son in the bible.

Was that his son he sent, or did he come himself? I always find that confusing. And while my mother gave me a Bible, she had to pay for it. Someone always has to pay.

 

[Freodin]

How would you explain morals? How do we conceive of what is right and wrong? How do we have opinions about this being right, but someone else thinking it is wrong.

Let us pretend we all are creationists. If there was a creator who is perfect, would it not make sense that He would give us a conscience, knowing right and wrong. A sense of morality.

Yes, that would make sense. So why didn´t it happen?

You already said it for yourself: we have opinions about this being right, but someone else thinking it is wrong.
How can that happen, when you have a perfect sense of right and wrong, given to you by the perfect creator?

For instance, killing is not right, and stealing is not fair nor trustworthy. Speaking what is not true about another is malicious and slanderous.

Except, of course, when God - or another authority which you accept speaks for God - command you to, isn´t it?

Consider you are a soldier in King Saul´s army... and your commander tells you that God commands you to go a slaughter all the Amalekites. Men, women, children, livestock. Kill them all. Leave no one alive.

Killing is not right, so your conscience tells you. Does it?

Would it not make you mad if someone made all kinds of untrue slanderous comments about you? Does not the God in the bible have a personality of anger, howbeit pure righteous anger.

What of other emotions? Love, lust, longing for a loved one who is far of. Does not God long for us, to know us, to reach out and let us know that He exists. He sent His Son, gave us the bible, and told us of His Son in the bible.

I fear that I cannot follow your reasoning. Note: I understand it, but I cannot accept it.

You conclude that, because humans behave in a certain way, God must have created it in this way, and because God behaves in a certain way, certain acts must have happened.

But this reasoning is not conclusive. It is also not compatible with some biblical statements, such as "God´s ways are not our ways".

You cannot have it both ways. If God acts like us, and God does not act like us, it is not possible to make any statements about God´s behaviour. That would be... paradox, at least, if not contradictory.

 

[Wedjat]

It adds evidence of morality to the discussion. The bible seems to list some things that are works of the flesh. How would you explain morality and the brains ability to think.

Easily and with naturalistic explanations. When you are open to serious debate I will respond more thoroughly, in the meantime other posters probably will (and I think already have) addressed your points.

How do we explain things that are not tangible. How do you explain how the wind exists, if you cannot see it? Yes, you feel it, or you see it blow through the trees. Why do some disregard the evidence that God's Spirit has blown into our lives, and evidence that it has changed us?

What evidence? If it was always there, how has it changed us? Wind is measurable, verifiable, predictable (to a degree). God is none of these things.

Does evolution give you a sense of purpose and where do you get that sense of purpose from?

No. Evolution is a scientific theory. It says nothing in regards to purpose. I am the sole arbiter of what purpose is assigned to my life.

God gives me a sense of purpose. How do you explain terms like hope. Like, I hope I can get out of this mess, if there truly is a righteous God?

The word hope, the feeling of hope, or a desire for an external entity to bail you out of sticky situations?

 

[SkyWriting]

Would it not make you mad if someone made all kinds of untrue slanderous comments about you?

That depends on if they "hit home" or they don't apply.

I get mad if they "hit home" meaning, I have internal issues with that myself.
Otherwise, they don't apply. If somebody accused me of dog abuse, I think of the time I left her out in the rain. She was not happy with me.

If they accuse me of child abuse, I may hang my head about the time I left "K" in wet diapers too long one day without changing her. But beyond the diaper incident, it doesn't apply to me. Maybe it is hitting home with the accuser though. Time for prayer for them.

 

[kenblaster5000]

If I don't like stuff being stolen from me, why would I steal from somebody else? No God needed.



Society (and see above). No God needed.



Cultural differences.



Correct. If we were created by another being, I would assume it would imbue us with certain characteristics.

Now let's think like a scientist. If you are a species that relies on each member of the tribe to survive, what would happen if you started killing off each member of your tribe? What would happen if you didn't share food with each other? Does it take a creator to instill a sense of morality, or could moral conduct also be centered in our evolution?



What about killing another individual that you do not recognize as a tribe member? It happened in the OT all of the time. Is killing suddenly okay when God commands it? Why is it wrong some times but okay at other times?



If other animals could talk they would probably do the same thing. For all of our "evolutionary advancement", we still are driven by basic primal functions. I feel that all human behavior is derived from and can be explained by our evolution.



What if they were trying to make me mad? Why would I care about someone spreading lies if I knew they were not true? I could either ignore it or confront it. Getting mad only causes more trouble.



If you want to consider killing those that don't love you "righteous".



What of it?



Does God not long for us enough to actually come down here and tell us rather than leave it up to a bunch of infallible humans?

The bible seems to lay out that God sent His Son, who is not infallible.

Matthew 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which is translated, "God with us."

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have a Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Revelation 4:11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."

Matthew 3:1 In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness ofJudea, and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

John the baptist prepared the way, and Jesus Christ was his reargaurd reiterating the message that John the Baptist, the Spirit of elijah, was preaching.

You seem to understand enough about morality to stand in judgment of the God of the bible. Do you not think that that instinct comes from a God of true righteous judgment. He is an all consuming fire, yet He is lonsuffering enough not to break out against us, but lovingly sent His Son to rescue us by His mighty right hand.

 

[CoderHead]

It adds evidence of morality to the discussion.

The discussion isn't about morality. There's another thread for that, in which you're currently involved.

 

[Nathan Poe]

This one is easy.
Morals come from obedience to a higher power or authority.

People make "Moral" decisions based on the values of these Authority Figures.
You get to decide what order to put them in.

So people make "moral" decisions out of fear of punishment from those higher powers?

Morality is, therefore, another term for cowardice.

 

[kenblaster5000]

And He asks us to do the same as His nature is:

Jude 22-23

22. And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23. but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

And He wants me to be obedient:

2 Timothy 4:2, 4:5

2. Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

5. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

 

[sandwiches]

Good job getting all that information. Is that knowledge that is illusion. I thought it would be better to be ignorant.

Knowledge is only an illusion if you can't independently verify or confirm it. However, you can confirm everything I said; just open the Bible.

Now, can you confirm what the Bible claims about the flood, Jonah and the whale, etc?, though?

 

[Wedjat]

So people make "moral" decisions out of fear of punishment from those higher powers?

Morality is, therefore, another term for cowardice.

But punishment isn't the only motivator here. Since childhood most people are conditioned to respect authority. This goes hand in hand with learning morality off of your parents, as they are the primary authority figure in your life. As you grow older you siphon off of other people you look up to, rarely would one take moral lessons from someone they looked down upon. This respect for authority is for no other reason than conditioning and accepted social structure.

 

[sandwiches]

I looked at the wrong quote, but still that was pretty funny. Poor guy wasting his time looking for contradictions that I do not even care about. He will be a great servant of the Lord. Most atheists want the Christians to do all the work. Way to go the extra mile. (I mean that)

It takes about six seconds to type 'contradictions in the Bible,' whether your atheists or theist. You can do this if you truly are willing to be honest with yourself. If, however, you've made up your mind without having reliable information and disregarding what you know to be problems in your belief system, then you're not in an honest quest for knowledge and discovery. In other words, if you don't care about contradictions in the Bible, what you're saying is that you don't care about believing what is consistent or true.

 

[sandwiches]

I wouldn't go to a foreign country then.

All you'll hear is "unsubstantiated nonsense".

That's much of what I heard when I came to the US. I knew a bit of English I learned from school, but not much. I eventually was able to understand the language without issues. However, much of what people say in this and every other language, regardless of their proficiency in it, remains nonsense.

Twelve thousand.

Yep. My mistake in typing the title of that contradiction. It was meant to be 'stalls of horses.'

 

[Wedjat]

It takes about six seconds to type 'contradictions in the Bible,' whether your atheists or theist. You can do this if you truly are willing to be honest with yourself. If, however, you've made up your mind without having reliable information and disregarding what you know to be problems in your belief system, then you're not in an honest quest for knowledge and discovery. In other words, if you don't care about contradictions in the Bible, what you're saying is that you don't care about believing what is consistent or true.

No no, he was asking for scientific inconsistencies with the Bible, not inconsistencies in the Bible

Then of course he's not actually interested in learning about them at all, he's made that clear

 

[sandwiches]

More human logic.
Yes!!

You definitely have this part right. Trying to make sense of your statement is an exercise in futility. So, now, what you're saying is that your claims cannot be empirically or forensically verified but they're logically unsound, as well. Sounds like the very definition of 'nonsense,' as AV and I have been talking about.

The truth is you're masking your blunder behind a wishful veil of mysticism. Either you're 100% good or you're not. Now, if you're going to claim that logic doesn't apply to good and evil, then why are you trying to make logically sound arguments out of them?

 

[kenblaster5000]

Knowledge is only an illusion if you can't independently verify or confirm it. However, you can confirm everything I said; just open the Bible.

Now, can you confirm what the Bible claims about the flood, Jonah and the whale, etc?, though?

Look around at the mountains, do you not see signs that the water has eroded them. Have you ever heard of those creatures that are predominantly in the sea have been found on the highest mountains. I cannot confirm about the whate of Jonah, but Jesus Christ even told others that no other sign would He give those pharisees, but that He would be in the belly of the whale for three days, then be raised again. Do you think Jonah wanted to go to Ninevah to tell a rebellious and cruel people to repent. Did Jesus Christ struggle with going to the cross?

He said, not by will be done, but Your will be done. He was stronger that Jonah, who ran away and it was provided that a whale would be given to swallow Jonah up. God prepared the whale. God has prepared signs for me as well, and He will for you also, if you keep your eyes open. I do not live a dead faith. He is Christ in me, the hope of glory. I have told you about my baptism in the Holy Spirit, and that same Spirit will confirm me until the very end.

 

[sandwiches]

No no, he was asking for scientific inconsistencies with the Bible, not inconsistencies in the Bible

Then of course he's not actually interested in learning about them at all, he's made that clear

I understand that. I was merely pointing out that all the time I wasted looking for those inconsistencies was a few second. Now, if he wants to look for inconsistencies with the Bible and science, all he has to do is Google 'scientific inconsistencies in the Bible.'

 

[sandwiches]

Look around at the mountains, do you not see signs that the water has eroded them. Have you ever heard of those creatures that are predominantly in the sea have been found on the highest mountains. I cannot confirm about the whate of Jonah, but Jesus Christ even told others that no other sign would He give those pharisees, but that He would be in the belly of the whale for three days, then be raised again. Do you think Jonah wanted to go to Ninevah to tell a rebellious and cruel people to repent. Did Jesus Christ struggle with going to the cross?

There are indeed fossils of aquatic animals in many mountains. In fact, where I lived in Mexico, a desert, was full of sea shells and other aquatic remnants. However, the key thing to determine if a global flood did occur is that all those fossils would have had to have been from the same time. Those fossils, however, tell a much more colorful and ancient story.

He said, not by will be done, but Your will be done. He was stronger that Jonah, who ran away and it was provided that a whale would be given to swallow Jonah up. God prepared the whale. God has prepared signs for me as well, and He will for you also, if you keep your eyes open. I do not live a dead faith. He is Christ in me, the hope of glory. I have told you about my baptism in the Holy Spirit, and that same Spirit will confirm me until the very end.

You didn't show anything that could be construed as evidence of Jonah and the whale. Just what the Bible says, which as was stated earlier, it's rife with internal and external contradictions and extraordinary claims without any evidence.

 

[sandwiches]

The resurrection from the dead is beyond our capabilities.

It doesn't sound like kenblaster5000 resurrected any dead. Maybe I misread something, though.

 

[sandwiches]

Oh, I forgot there were Christians in name only.

No true Scotsman. I'm guessing you know you're right. I'm guessing those who don't see you as a true Christian also 'know' they're correct.

Oh yea... By the by, you haven't shown your 'proof' of a man coming back from the dead. You made a big deal about this 'proof' and you haven't shown it.