Does 'Goddidit' constitute an explanation?

[kenblaster5000]

To be honest, every Christian know God wrote, or inspired the writing of, the bible because God told us personally.

Since you don't believe when we tell you, He will have to tell you personally Himself, just like He told us.
Look at it this way: If you owed the bank a million dollars and could not repay it, and I chose to repay the million dollars on your behalf, the bank would accept my million dollars as your payment, making you debt free.

Christians are evil free.

Not all Christians are evil free though. Sorry.

1 John 4:2-3

2. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3. and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Matthew 7:15

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Acts 20:28-29

28. "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which (He purchased with His own blood.)
29. "For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

It appears to be that some are evil, workers of iniquity. Wolves in sheep's clothing, using the faith as a cloak for evil.

The Word of God is inspired:

1 Corinthians 2:10

But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

I was looking for some scripture and found that instead. Here is what I was looking for:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16. All scripture is given by inspiration (the breath) of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
17. that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Cabal]

Look at it this way: If you owed the bank a million dollars and could not repay it, and I chose to repay the million dollars on your behalf, the bank would accept my million dollars as your payment, making you debt free.

Christians are evil free.

or to put it another way, over the course of a christian's life their evil is averaged out to zero, but their instantaneous evil level can be quite high

 

[Freodin]

“Cosmic radiation, red shift, etc.” --> Big Bang did it.

The universe, life, etc. --> God did it.

Big Bang did it? I though math did it?

But if you cannot understand the difference between a reasoned model for explanations and "God did it"... you won´t see any problems in equating Big Bang, Math and God.

 

[kenblaster5000]

Big Bang did it? I though math did it?

But if you cannot understand the difference between a reasoned model for explanations and "God did it"... you won´t see any problems in equating Big Bang, Math and God.

You have worked hard to put that "Berlin wall" up between you and God.

The truth can make some gnash their teeth. Don't fret, Jesus Christ is truth.

 

[Doveaman]

or to put it another way, over the course of a christian's life their evil is averaged out to zero, but their instantaneous evil level can be quite high

Spoken like a Christian Physicist.

 

[Doveaman]

Big Bang did it? I though math did it?

But if you cannot understand the difference between a reasoned model for explanations and "God did it"... you won´t see any problems in equating Big Bang, Math and God.

The way I see it, no one has ever seen the Big Bang, but yet this invisible, hypothetical Bang is said to produce a lot of stuff, math being the life blood of this hypothetical Bang, not evidence. Drain the Big Bang of its abstract life blood and the hypothetical Bang dies.

Now if that's an explanation, then the invisible "God did it" is also an explanation.

 

[Doveaman]

Not all Christians are evil free though. Sorry.

Oh, I forgot there were Christians in name only.

Which reminds me of redshift = distance only.

 

[kenblaster5000]

Oh, I forgot there were Christians in name only.

Which reminds me of redshift = distance only.

Christians should follow Jesus Christ. I can honestly say that I am His disciple and you are as well. I was a slave to sin and He has made me His free man. I do not know what you mean by redshift=distance only, I claim to know Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Always bring it back to Jesus Christ. That is what I have learned from brother Arthur Blessitt. That guy has witnessed all over the world. A wise man wins souls. I do not care for all the details of deceitful pride. It seems some are wise in their deception.

Evolution is a logic shift. You start with an end result, not proven, and work backwards to prove it. It is vanity. God gives us all the answers, and says, "Just receive it, it is free."

Matthew 11:28-30

28. "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30. "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

 

[Freodin]

The way I see it, no one has ever seen the Big Bang, but yet this invisible, hypothetical Bang is said to produce a lot of stuff, math being the life blood of this hypothetical Bang, not evidence. Drain the Big Bang of its abstract life blood and the hypothetical Bang dies.

Now if that's an explanation, then the invisible "God did it" is also an explanation.

That is not an explanation... that is a strawman. Is your "God did it" also just a strawman?

No, not even that. A strawman is a false or invalid presentation of a position in order to defeat or ridicule it. "God did it" does not even present anything. It is just an empty phrase.

Your statement was "cosmic radiation, red shift, etc -> Big Bang did it". Now what that mean?

What does it mean to you? Nothing. Empty. No meaning at all. You read the phrase and you hear that it "did" something... and you deny it, because you don´t believe that "big bang" is only "hypothetical" - which means "non existent" for you - and thus cannot "do" anything.

What does it mean to me? It is an explanatory model meant to fit together observations, search for corrobating evidence and combine them into a working model (in two meanings: a model for working with as well as a model that works).

Why the Big Bang? How did the Big Bang "do" red shift? What did it "do"? Paint stars red? Embarass stellar objects? No.

Red shift is an observed physical phenomenon. It is the observation that objects don´t (seem to the observer to) send out light of the wavelength they should, according to their chemical makeup. It is tested, calculated and verified. It is real.

This phenomenon is caused by the change in the wavelength of light observed between moving objects. This again, the explanation for this observation, is tested, calculated and verified. In the case of red shift, the relative movement of the observer and the observed object is one of getting further away. If object and observer would be getting closer, the shift would be towards the blue end of the spectrum.

Now if objects are observed to show this red shift, a reasonable conclusion is that they are moving away from the observer. If they are moving away, they must have been closer together in the past. Now the question is "how close"? As there is no observable explanation for any stage, one possible answer is "really, really, really close" - the hypothetical singularity.

Now we do the reasoning process in the opposite direction: if such a singularity existed, and expanded to form what we observe now, it could have done it in a certain way, based on what we know / can observe now. This certain way would leave certain results observable now. Can we find these results? And it is indeed that proposed results - like the cosmic background radiation - have been observed. Strengthening the hypothesis of the "big bang".

This is the why and how of the Big Bang "doing" things.

Can you do the same for "God did it"?

Which reminds me of redshift = distance only.

Yes, there is a potential explanation for redshift by "tiring of light". The problem is though that this cannot explain the opposite phenomenon: blueshift.

 

[SkyWriting]

Does 'Goddidit' constitute an explanation? It doesn't matter if it's an untestable one, but does it count as an explanation?

In that respect, is it a scientific hypothesis, albeit a woefully poor one?

The founders of Science were from conservative Christian backgrounds and they had the understanding that God Did It. Evidently they also understood that if Goddidit then none of it was magic. They figured that if God could reveal His true nature in human form, then his secrets to how creation worked could also be seen and understood. So they built the foundations of modern science.

 

[Freodin]

The founders of Science were from conservative Christian backgrounds and they had the understanding that God Did It. Evidently they also understood that if Goddidit then none of it was magic. They figured that if God could reveal His true nature in human form, then his secrets to how creation worked could also be seen and understood. So they built the foundations of modern science.

This is a good description of the beginnings of modern science... and according to people like AV, all these people from "conservative Christian backgrounds" were completely wrong.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is a good description of the beginnings of modern science... and according to people like AV, all these people from "conservative Christian backgrounds" were completely wrong.

I could be wrong. They may each have been free-thinking rebels within the churches they attended, holding no belief in God or the Creation story at all. I just couldn't find any evidence of that myself so my first comments fit the facts better. It's the scientific method at work.

 

[Freodin]

I could be wrong. They may each have been free-thinking rebels within the churches they attended, holding no belief in God or the Creation story at all. I just couldn't find any evidence of that myself so my first comments fit the facts better. It's the scientific method at work.

It is. I agree with you completely. These people believed that they could find out the "how" of God´s works by looking at God´s works. And they found indeed alot of the "how"... and quite a lot of it contradicted a literal interpretation of the Bible. Some found that what they found did work quite well even if they didn´t assume "God did it". Some found that it was no problem to accept that what they found contradicted "the documentation".

And some chose to ignore everything they found in order to keep to the literal interpretation of what they call "God´s word".

 

[kenblaster5000]

How would you explain morals? How do we conceive of what is right and wrong? How do we have opinions about this being right, but someone else thinking it is wrong.

Let us pretend we all are creationists. If there was a creator who is perfect, would it not make sense that He would give us a conscience, knowing right and wrong. A sense of morality.

For instance, killing is not right, and stealing is not fair nor trustworthy. Speaking what is not true about another is malicious and slanderous.

Would it not make you mad if someone made all kinds of untrue slanderous comments about you? Does not the God in the bible have a personality of anger, howbeit pure righteous anger.

What of other emotions? Love, lust, longing for a loved one who is far of. Does not God long for us, to know us, to reach out and let us know that He exists. He sent His Son, gave us the bible, and told us of His Son in the bible.

 

[SkyWriting]

It is. I agree with you completely. These people believed that they could find out the "how" of God´s works by looking at God´s works. And they found indeed alot of the "how"... and quite a lot of it contradicted a literal interpretation of the Bible.

You may think that is true and obvious, but I can't find any evidence of that being the case then. And I find little evidence that's it's a problem now.

 

[kenblaster5000]

Revelation 22:14-15

14. Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates in the city.
15, But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

 

[kenblaster5000]

Galatians 5:19-21

19. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20. idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21. envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Wedjat]

Please stop posting random Bible quotes, it adds nothing to the discussion.
I realize that they relate to the subject of morality, which you just brought up, but that also has little to do with it. We could explain the hypothesized evolutionary methods by which morals arose, but you have stated in a different thread that you are not interested in learning about that.

 

[SkyWriting]

How would you explain morals? How do we conceive of what is right and wrong? How do we have opinions about this being right, but someone else thinking it is wrong...

This one is easy.
Morals come from obedience to a higher power or authority.

Here is a list of Authority figures:
wife
friends
minority rights
race
species
majority
voters
God
Jesus
Money
Feelings
Little voice in ones head
family
Mary
The Church
The Pope
The Police (with Sting)
The Police (the ones with guns)
Government
Peer Review Process
Science
Sports Figures
"Lady" Gaga (hint:not a lady)

People make "Moral" decisions based on the values of these Authority Figures.
You get to decide what order to put them in.

 

[BananaSlug]

How would you explain morals?

If I don't like stuff being stolen from me, why would I steal from somebody else? No God needed.

How do we conceive of what is right and wrong?

Society (and see above). No God needed.

How do we have opinions about this being right, but someone else thinking it is wrong.

Cultural differences.

Let us pretend we all are creationists. If there was a creator who is perfect, would it not make sense that He would give us a conscience, knowing right and wrong. A sense of morality.

Correct. If we were created by another being, I would assume it would imbue us with certain characteristics.

Now let's think like a scientist. If you are a species that relies on each member of the tribe to survive, what would happen if you started killing off each member of your tribe? What would happen if you didn't share food with each other? Does it take a creator to instill a sense of morality, or could moral conduct also be centered in our evolution?

For instance, killing is not right, and stealing is not fair nor trustworthy.

What about killing another individual that you do not recognize as a tribe member? It happened in the OT all of the time. Is killing suddenly okay when God commands it? Why is it wrong some times but okay at other times?

Speaking what is not true about another is malicious and slanderous.

If other animals could talk they would probably do the same thing. For all of our "evolutionary advancement", we still are driven by basic primal functions. I feel that all human behavior is derived from and can be explained by our evolution.

Would it not make you mad if someone made all kinds of untrue slanderous comments about you?

What if they were trying to make me mad? Why would I care about someone spreading lies if I knew they were not true? I could either ignore it or confront it. Getting mad only causes more trouble.

Does not the God in the bible have a personality of anger, howbeit pure righteous anger.

If you want to consider killing those that don't love you "righteous".

What of other emotions? Love, lust, longing for a loved one who is far of.

What of it?

Does not God long for us, to know us, to reach out and let us know that He exists. He sent His Son, gave us the bible, and told us of His Son in the bible.

Does God not long for us enough to actually come down here and tell us rather than leave it up to a bunch of infallible humans?