Does 'Goddidit' constitute an explanation? (2)

[Jnwaco]

When looking at the witch hunts and inquisitions, etc., one can legitimately say that that is an offense to what Christ taught. That fact seems to slip by a lot of people.

 

[Cabal]

Cute dialog.

I happen to be an Independent Baptist.

Know what that means?

That means that the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, and everything else you guys think are valid fodder today have no bearing whatsoever on us.

Even if there, by some wild stretch of the imagination, happened to be found one [backslidding] Independent Baptist in any of the four groups I mentioned above, it still wouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on us.

In fact, let's make a dichotomy out of this.

If every single person in history that marched off to the Crusades, tried persons in the Inquisition, and/or hanged Witches in Salem were Independent Baptists, it would have no effect on us --- butterfly or otherwise.

Except to you guys, who love to play the fly-in-the-ointment routine and accuse the entire Body of Christ for the actions of just a few people, who probably weren't even members in the first place.

This and "dispensations".

Airtight copouts all round, I see.

 

[Jnwaco]

This and "dispensations".

Airtight copouts all round, I see.

It's not a copout, it's stating the fact that the argument ignores what Christ taught. Christ did not burn witches, unless you have a new Gospel you're not telling us about.

 

[sandwiches]

When looking at the witch hunts and inquisitions, etc., one can legitimately say that that is an offense to what Christ taught. That fact seems to slip by a lot of people.

Christ taught to love one another, give to the poor, turn the other cheek, etc, etc. Yet, people continue to use the Bible justify demonizing social benefit programs, homosexuality, other religions, murder, wars, etc.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: In a few generations, Christians of that time will look back at the Christians of today who use the Bible to demonize homosexuality, evolution, etc in the same way we look at those who used the Bible to justify racism, sexism, slavery, etc. The Christians of that time will look back and say "But those weren't 'real' Christians. Neither Jesus nor the Bible taught us to be against homosexuals or that life didn't evolve." They'll tell us that with the exact same conviction and strength of belief that we're seeing from you and other Christians of today. But I guess that's why every Christian says the others are not 'real Christians.'

 

[Freodin]

Cute dialog.

I happen to be an Independent Baptist.

Know what that means?

That means that the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, and everything else you guys think are valid fodder today have no bearing whatsoever on us.

Even if there, by some wild stretch of the imagination, happened to be found one [backslidding] Independent Baptist in any of the four groups I mentioned above, it still wouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on us.

In fact, let's make a dichotomy out of this.

If every single person in history that marched off to the Crusades, tried persons in the Inquisition, and/or hanged Witches in Salem were Independent Baptists, it would have no effect on us --- butterfly or otherwise.

Except to you guys, who love to play the fly-in-the-ointment routine and accuse the entire Body of Christ for the actions of just a few people, who probably weren't even members in the first place.

Oh, it does have a bearing on you. It makes you set apart all those who are not "the Body of Christ" from you. Here still the plural "you", but if necessary, a singular "you" as well. Nothing that nobody ever does, ever did, ever will do, has any bearing of you... except make you the only Christian that ever existed.

Well, that should give you pause. That should really make you, just for once, for novelty´s sake, consider what other people think and believe.

There are (in that hypothetical "dichotomy") Independent Baptists who go on Crusade, start Inquisitions and burn Witches? WHY DO THEY DO THAT? What causes them to act like that, in a way that you say in contrary to God´s word? Haven´t they faith? Haven´t they the evidence of things hoped for? Haven´t they the Holy Spirit to guide them?

You don´t care. You are safe and warm in your knowledge that YOU are right, and the rest be damned.

Perhaps you should care. It would make you, well... human?

 

[Cabal]

It's not a copout, it's stating the fact that the argument ignores what Christ taught. Christ did not burn witches, unless you have a new Gospel you're not telling us about.

Claiming that the past can't touch you because of your denomination is a cop-out, pure and simple.

Convincing yourself you have the "right" interpretation whereas anyone who did a bad thing (in your opinion only) had the "wrong" interpretation is just naive, not to mention bad logic.

 

[Cabal]

Christ taught to love one another, give to the poor, turn the other cheek, etc, etc. Yet, people continue to use the Bible justify demonizing social benefit programs, homosexuality, other religions, murder, wars, etc.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: In a few generations, Christians of that time will look back at the Christians of today who use the Bible to demonize homosexuality, evolution, etc in the same way we look at those who used the Bible to justify racism, sexism, slavery, etc. The Christians of that time will look back and say "But those weren't 'real' Christians. Neither Jesus nor the Bible never taught us to be against homosexuals or that life didn't evolve." They'll tell us that with the exact same conviction and strength of belief that we're seeing it from you and other Christians of today. But I guess that's why every Christian says the others are not 'real Christians.'

^ This.

The copouts will continue.

 

[Freodin]

It's not a copout, it's stating the fact that the argument ignores what Christ taught. Christ did not burn witches, unless you have a new Gospel you're not telling us about.

It does not ignore what Christ taught... it goes into the depths of all the things that Christ missed to teach.

What did Jesus say in regard to witches? Well, nothing. So what authority do those have that claim that Jesus was against witch-burnings? Well, nothing directly from the Bible. They are only extrapolating... and this can go this way or that.

Consider... Jesus did not command or forbid burning witches. Jesus set an adultress - a capital offence! - free... so one might extrapolate that this also was meant that, just as adultresses are no longer to be stoned, witches are no longer to be, well, not suffered to live.
But on the other hand none of all these good Christians who would never consider to burn a witch or stone an adultress would agree with getting rid of our justice system. Many even support the death penalty.

They are extrapolating, again, this time in a different direction. None of which (or both, sometimes) are backed up with "what Jesus did". It is always, "what Jesus would have done", and "what Jesus / God told me to do".

For a living God, Jesus is awfully difficult to reach for clarifications on "what he taught".

 

[AV1611VET]

What did Jesus say in regard to witches?

It's not Jesus we have to worry about --- it's you guys.

You guys are the ones justifying witch hunts --- you just want Christians to do it, based on the interpretation of a few people in history.

Why aren't you guys pestering the Hindus to do what Aum Shinri Kyo taught: worship Shiva in 'supreme truth' and get out there and wreck havoc?

Instead, you'll go into their documentation and find some obscure phrase that claims "Shiva" also means "peace" or "serenity" or something like that, and then turn your attention back to us.

Sceva's sons live again, don't they?

You know what pesters me about the news media?

They say "radical Islams" did this.

What's a 'radical Islam'?

A 'radical Islam', to me, is one who helps little old ladies across the street, plants flowers, and goes to peace rallies.

 

[AV1611VET]

For a living God, Jesus is awfully difficult to reach for clarifications on "what he taught".

You guys seem to think He was pretty straightforward.

Even when I showed from His own words how the Crusades were wrong, you guys wanted to argue it.

Like I'm fond of saying, if you guys ran the world like you guys interpret the Bible for us, we would all be in trouble.

 

[Jnwaco]

It does not ignore what Christ taught... it goes into the depths of all the things that Christ missed to teach.

What did Jesus say in regard to witches? Well, nothing. So what authority do those have that claim that Jesus was against witch-burnings?

Love your neighbor.
Love your enemies.

That covers everyone, and it's that simple.

 

[Jnwaco]

^ This.

The copouts will continue.

Christ's commandments have not changed. Only the people interpreting the Bible have. And I might add, people used the bible against slavery. Odd that you should be so short sighted as to forget that.

 

[Doveaman]

So in this context, "faith" is just a convenient substitute for "pride."

You can't bear the thought that you might be mistaken, so your own "faith" makes it true, because to be wrong would be unthinkable.

I cannot be mistaken. That's impossible.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Christ's commandments have not changed. Only the people interpreting the Bible have. And I might add, people used the bible against slavery. Odd that you should be so short sighted as to forget that.

People used the Bible for slavery as well. odd that you would be so short sighted to forget that.

 

[Jnwaco]

People used the Bible for slavery as well. odd that you would be so short sighted to forget that.

Follow the thread. That was in response to someone who already said what you said.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Good question.

Take the Flood for instance.

After it went down like it did, the Epic of Gilgamesh came out, written by a nation whose founder was not only Noah's grandson, but a man who had gone prodigal.

Remember? He started out as a 'mighty hunter before the LORD'?

All Satan has to do now, in the 21st century, is make sure there's enough "educated" people to convince the common people that Sumeria existed before the Flood.

You mean all Satan has to work with are the facts? Well, that puts you at a distinct disadvantage, AV

 

[Nathan Poe]

Follow the thread. That was in response to someone who already said what you said.

So now you have someone else to ignore.

 

[kenblaster5000]

Christ taught to love one another, give to the poor, turn the other cheek, etc, etc. Yet, people continue to use the Bible justify demonizing social benefit programs, homosexuality, other religions, murder, wars, etc.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: In a few generations, Christians of that time will look back at the Christians of today who use the Bible to demonize homosexuality, evolution, etc in the same way we look at those who used the Bible to justify racism, sexism, slavery, etc. The Christians of that time will look back and say "But those weren't 'real' Christians. Neither Jesus nor the Bible taught us to be against homosexuals or that life didn't evolve." They'll tell us that with the exact same conviction and strength of belief that we're seeing from you and other Christians of today. But I guess that's why every Christian says the others are not 'real Christians.'

And what will the atheists be looking back on? I have given to the poor. I reach out to my fellow man. I have witnessed to a couple of people who are homosexual in public, and told them that Jesus loves them, and the Holy Spirit will help them to change. We all have our weaknesses and sins that so easily beset us that we must get past. Is homosexuality worse than fornication, especially fornication outside of marriage? They are both penalized by death. Sin leads to death. Hatred toward your brother is as bad as murder in God's eyes. Why? Cain hated Abel and slew Him, because Abel's offering was righteous, but Cain's was not. When we do not offer our best to God, then sin lies at the door. Love is very important. Without love we are as sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. It just does not get anything intelligible through, if we lack love.

 

[Jnwaco]

So now you have someone else to ignore.

Not sure what that meant.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Cute dialog.

I happen to be an Independent Baptist.

Know what that means?

That means that the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, and everything else you guys think are valid fodder today have no bearing whatsoever on us.

Even if there, by some wild stretch of the imagination, happened to be found one [backslidding] Independent Baptist in any of the four groups I mentioned above, it still wouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on us.

It means that when God speaks of the Sins of the fathers being passed down -- you choose to ignore Him.

Bearing no responsibility for the sins of your forefathers puts you under no obligation to learn from them -- which is probably why you don't.