Does 'Goddidit' constitute an explanation? (2)

[Cabal]

The EU idea is from the Cosmologists.

The EU idea is from a small minority of cosmologists.

'God did it' fits perfectly well together with the 'electricity', He created it, it's just that all EU theorists are not aware of the connection yet, but they got the 'electricity' part right. I got the 'God did it' part right. It's only a matter of time before they recognize the connection, and many of them already do.

It has nothing to do with unawareness, it has everything to do with the fact that supernatural entities are nonscientific.

As I said, you're welcome to think what you like, but you are a minority within a minority. EU might be accepted and LCDM rejected if the evidence comes along, but the Goddidit tag will never be accepted in a theory because it's untestable.

People have been shoehorning Goddidit into already-established theories for ages, the fact that they have had no successes to speak of speaks volumes.

 

[SkyWriting]

Take cartoon physics for example; it entertains the mind but has absolutely no value in the real world!

You're kidding. Right?

The author of Introducing Relativity is the Senior lecturer at the Institute of Cosmology and Gravitation at Portsmouth. He has done research at Oxford and at the International School for Advanced Studies in Trieste.

You may not know much of the schools, neither do I, but he is an accomplished teacher/lecturer with 30 published papers who gets his students interested in science careers. If you don't think that's a good career for him.......

then we disagree.

Science is not faith based and does not allow for make believe.

That's an incorrect analysis & conclusion. The Scientific PROCESS seeks to steer further interest and research into areas that show evidence of being usefull by showing repeatable outcomes when the same procedures are followed. There are people who have FAITH that the PROCESS will do that.

When that happens, it builds a foundation for further research. Over time, repeated experiments can move theories more towards the "Fact" category.
But even established theories get tested over and over by alternative theories or models. These alternate theories and models require virtually unlimited amounts of imagination & speculation & even day-dreaming.

Science is vitally dependent on "make-believe" and is entirely Faith based. The Faith in the process, based on repeatable experiments, requires unlimited "make-believe" for testing and confirmation with new and challenging, "dreamed-up" theories.

Your only thinking about the most basic and concrete parts of science that have been confirmed and taught to you confidently by others. All told, doing activities where the results of your actions are already confirmed is just a fraction of all time spent on scientific activities. "Make believe" is probably the most important part.

Moreover it is critical that Science remain faith based so that established theories can always be questioned and tested from new and interesting angles. Once a "theory" becomes a "fact" it is no longer questioned or tested. Then there is nothing new that can be learned from it. When you ass-u-me that something is true and no longer test the theory, you knock out the foundation of the Scientific investigative method altogether.


- Sky -

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, first of all, my critical thinking has led me to conclude that I am not an ape, even though there are those who would seek to classify me as such, but because of my critical thinking I absolutely refuse to be classified as such.

I can't prove it, of course, but I think [prescient] evolution was going around in Solomon's time, and Solomon checked into it.

He had apes added to his import list ...

For the king had at sea a navy of Tharshish with the navy of Hiram: once in three years came the navy of Tharshish, bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.

... studied them, then concluded it was wrong, and that [prescient] evolution is nothing more than an invention (of the devil?).

Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Of course, I'm sure he believed in a literal Genesis 1, so he wouldn't have had to study apes to see if it was true, but Solomon was swayed into error by his many wives.

Despite our similarity in DNA and bone structure, and whatever else, my critical thinking has led me to conclude that apes and I are the product not of a common ancestor, but of a common Designer...

I have a feeling the Egyptians messed with [prescient] evolution as well, and Moses turned his back on them.

By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

I don't know what all this [prescient] evolution taught back then, but if you look at the icons from the various empires, you'll see they thought man was some kind of hybrid animal.

QV: 211

 

[Doveaman]

Oh, for science, jumping to a conclusion is a bad thing. But there's more to life than science, especially when the alternative conclusion is rather irrelevant.

That's a good point.

Despite our disagreements in the understanding of science, when we consider the total meaning and purpose for everything in the Universe, the science is somewhat irrelevant.

 

[Doveaman]

QV: 211

Ape created in the image of man, and not man created in the image of God.

Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. - Rom 1:22-23.

 

[Doveaman]

The EU idea is from a small minority of cosmologists.

Tunnel vision does more than magnify the elegance of the single idea. It also excludes considering other ideas. Alternative ideas are stymied by unquestioning faith in the “only possible” theory. For this reason, as history shows, most fundamental breakthroughs come from outsiders.

It has nothing to do with unawareness, it has everything to do with the fact that supernatural entities are nonscientific.

As I said, you're welcome to think what you like, but you are a minority within a minority. EU might be accepted and LCDM rejected if the evidence comes along, but the Goddidit tag will never be accepted in a theory because it's untestable.

People have been shoehorning Goddidit into already-established theories for ages, the fact that they have had no successes to speak of speaks volumes.

God did it is attached to all good science, including EU, it's just that the scientists don't know it yet.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Well, first of all, my critical thinking has led me to conclude that I am not an ape, even though there are those who would seek to classify me as such, but because of my critical thinking I absolutely refuse to be classified as such.

You mean because of your pride.

Despite our similarity in DNA and bone structure, and whatever else, my critical thinking has led me to conclude that apes and I are the product not of a common ancestor, but of a common Designer, unless I am also to conclude that gorillas and the rest of the ape family are created in the spiritual image of God just as I am, and that all gorillas have sin and fall short of the glory of God just as I have, and that Christ died to save gorillas from their sins just as He did me, and that gorillas can now repent of their sins and have a personal relationship with Christ just as I do, and that gorillas will some day live in heaven for all eternity just as I will. If Atheists can reconcile heaven with gorillas, I might accept being an ape.

But pride demands that you be something better.

In the mean time, it is the scientists’ (or whoever) prerogative to classify me however they choose, but it is also my prerogative to absolutely refuse to accept it. You can call me a pig because of our similarity in appearance and the way I eat, but, because of my critical thinking, I absolutely refuse to accept that I’m a pig.

More pride.

the rest snipped as being more of the same.

 

[Cabal]

Tunnel vision does more than magnify the elegance of the single idea. It also excludes considering other ideas. Alternative ideas are stymied by unquestioning faith in the “only possible” theory. For this reason, as history shows, most fundamental breakthroughs come from outsiders.

Sure. But just because an idea is FROM an outsider doesn't automatically make it more viable. Also, it has to be an outsider idea + a hell of a lot of hard work and data to overcome consensus.

And your minority^2 Goddidit argument definitely isn't capable of refuting current consensus.

God did it is attached to all good science, including EU, it's just that the scientists don't know it yet.

Starting from a conclusion. Wonderful. How unscientific.

Goddidit has not produced any good science, or any science at all.

 

[Nostromo]

That's an incorrect analysis & conclusion. The Scientific PROCESS seeks to steer further interest and research into areas that show evidence of being usefull by showing repeatable outcomes when the same procedures are followed. There are people who have FAITH that the PROCESS will do that.

It's perfectly true that even science is faith based, but I think it's worth mentioning that this isn't something peculiar to just science but all of reality.

We all have to trust that the universe we live in is consistent, and we've all learned from experience that it's so consistent that it doesn't usually merit a second thought.
Were it not consistent you wouldn't be able to reliably say anything about anything, whether that be science or religion or anything else. It is fairly safe then (and unavoidable) to assume that we can rely on the universe to yield repeatable outcomes and allow us to explore any questions we might have.

Tunnel vision does more than magnify the elegance of the single idea. It also excludes considering other ideas. Alternative ideas are stymied by unquestioning faith in the “only possible” theory. For this reason, as history shows, most fundamental breakthroughs come from outsiders.

I think you seemed to have overlooked the fact that this is a perfect description of the 'tunnel vision' religious like yourself.

 

[BananaSlug]

There would be no expansion without red-shift, there would be no Big Bang without expansion, and there would be no predictions without Big Bang.

Falsify the base (red-shift) and the house of cards come tumbling down.

Now, if you can falsify the base (electricity) of the Electric Universe theory, then that theory would come tumbling down, too.

Good luck.

Since your mind seems to think science works that way, I'll play along.

So how would the "electric universe" explain the blackbody spectrum observed in the cosmic microwave background by the COBE satellite?

Light element production as required in plasma cosmology has been discussed in the mainstream literature and was determined to produce excessive x-rays and gamma rays beyond that observed. How would you account for this?

No proposal based on plasma cosmology trying to explain the cosmic microwave background radiation has been published since COBE results were announced. How would plasma cosmology explain the cosmic microwave background radiation that was predicted with Big Bang cosmology?

The sensitivity and resolution of the measurement of these anisotropies was greatly advanced by WMAP. The fact that the CMB was measured to be so isotropic, inline with the predictions of the big bang model, was subsequently heralded as a major confirmation of the Big Bang model to the detriment of alternative hypotheses. These measurements showed the "acoustic peaks" were fit with high accuracy by the predictions of the Big Bang model and conditions of the early universe.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Redundant post.

 

[BananaSlug]

I can't prove it, of course, but I think [prescient] evolution was going around in Solomon's time, and Solomon checked into it.

Well you cannot provide any evidence for it because the Bible says no such thing.

He had apes added to his import list ...... studied them, then concluded it was wrong, and that [prescient] evolution is nothing more than an invention (of the devil?).

1 Kings never mentions that he studied the animals. It was merely stating how wealthy he was.

14 The weight of gold that came to Solomon yearly was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold, 15 besides that from the traveling merchants, from the income of traders, from all the kings of Arabia, and from the governors of the country.
16 And King Solomon made two hundred large shields of hammered gold; six hundred shekels of gold went into each shield. 17 He also made three hundred shields of hammered gold; three minas of gold went into each shield. The king put them in the House of the Forest of Lebanon.
18 Moreover the king made a great throne of ivory, and overlaid it with pure gold. 19 The throne had six steps, and the top of the throne was round at the back; there were armrests on either side of the place of the seat, and two lions stood beside the armrests. 20 Twelve lions stood there, one on each side of the six steps; nothing like this had been made for any other kingdom.
21 All King Solomon’s drinking vessels were gold, and all the vessels of the House of the Forest of Lebanon were pure gold. Not one was silver, for this was accounted as nothing in the days of Solomon. 22 For the king had merchant ships at sea with the fleet of Hiram. Once every three years the merchant ships came bringing gold, silver, ivory, apes, and peacocks. 23 So King Solomon surpassed all the kings of the earth in riches and wisdom. 1 Kings 10:14-23

Of course, I'm sure he believed in a literal Genesis 1, so he wouldn't have had to study apes to see if it was true, but Solomon was swayed into error by his many wives.

Ecclesiastes was about the futility of the works of man considering all men will die. It also places emphasis on the importance of wisdom.

12 I, the Preacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven; this burdensome task God has given to the sons of man, by which they may be exercised. 14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and indeed, all is vanity and grasping for the wind. Ecclesiastes 1:12-14

16 I communed with my heart, saying, “Look, I have attained greatness, and have gained more wisdom than all who were before me in Jerusalem. My heart has understood great wisdom and knowledge.” 17 And I set my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is grasping for the wind.
18 For in much wisdom is much grief,
And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:16-18

Besides, Solomon seems to have given evolution some credit.

18 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” 19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Ecclesiastes 3:18-20

I have a feeling the Egyptians messed with [prescient] evolution as well, and Moses turned his back on them.I don't know what all this [prescient] evolution taught back then, but if you look at the icons from the various empires, you'll see they thought man was some kind of hybrid animal.

QV: 211

Well, using my boolean logic, Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 is clearly Biblical support for the theory of evolution.

 

[Doveaman]

You mean because of your pride.

But pride demands that you be something better.

More pride.

the rest snipped as being more of the same.

I didn't know it was a crime to be proud of my humanity.

 

[Cabal]

I didn't know it was a crime to be proud of my humanity.

Nothing stops you doing so even if you accept your taxonomy.

 

[pgp_protector]

I didn't know it was a crime to be proud of my humanity.

What's their to be proud for?
If you take evolution, you're human because your parents are and your lineage evolved to what you are, nothing you did would change that.

If you take creation & God did it, then once again you're you because God made you, once again nothing to be proud for, as you didn't do anything in that case either to be human.

 

[Skaloop]

I didn't know it was a crime to be proud of my humanity.

I don't think anyone said that it was. But being proud to be a human doesn't change the fact that you are also an ape.

I personally am proud to be a Canadian. That doesn't mean I am not also a North American. Being proud to be part of a sub-group doesn't mean you aren't also part of a larger group. There are events for Italian pride, Irish pride, gay pride, black pride; people identify with those sub-groups. But they are all still human, and being a proud Italian, for example, doesn't negate that fact.

 

[Doveaman]

Since your mind seems to think science works that way, I'll play along.

You are not playing along. You seem to think you can overlook red-shift and move on to other observations as evidence for Big Bang.

Well, in case you didn't know, Big Bang and red-shift are synonymous. To ignore red-shift is to ignore Big Bang. If red-shift interpretation is flawed, then Big Bang theory is flawed and predicts nothing. And, like I said before, it is flawed.

 

[Doveaman]

Being proud to be part of a sub-group doesn't mean you aren't also part of a larger group. There are events for Italian pride, Irish pride, gay pride, black pride; people identify with those sub-groups.

Well, I've never heard of a pride of apes.

 

[Skaloop]

Well, I've never heard of a pride of apes.

Really? You're resorting to a homonym argument? Or was that a joke? Please tell me it was a joke.

 

[Doveaman]

What's their to be proud for?
If you take evolution, you're human because your parents are and your lineage evolved to what you are, nothing you did would change that.

If you take creation & God did it, then once again you're you because God made you, once again nothing to be proud for, as you didn't do anything in that case either to be human.

I am proud of it because God did it.

These are the definitions I go by:

Proud: Feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable. – Dictionary.com

Proud: Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit...Therefore honor God with your body. - 1 Cor 6:19-20.com