Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?

[Hammster]

The idea that salvation is not “personal” unless offered only to some really does not make sense. However, I think I understand the misplaced appeal of this argument. And it is this: given our self-centredness, we value attention and love that is directed our way to the exclusion of others. But this is clearly unhealthy and selfish- there is no rational reason to believe that someone loves us any the less if that person also loves others.

But our minds do not work this way- we want to be special.

There may be scriptural arguments in defence of predestination, but there is no coherent sense in which the Calvinist take makes salvation any more “personal”.

I understand where you are coming from. There is a possibility of selfishness inherent in the reformed understanding. However, if one starts with the doctrine of depravity, and can understand exactly what’s being taught, then the result should be humility because we understand how undeserving we are.

 

[renniks]

Then He doesn’t secure righteousness for everyone. That was the question.

Of course he does.
Romans 3:23-24—"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

 

[Hammster]

Of course he does.
Romans 3:23-24—"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Now you’re back to everyone being righteous.

 

[renniks]

Now you’re back to everyone being righteous.

Well that's easy enough to explain.
If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from death, you will be saved. For it is by our faith that we are put right with God; it is by our confession that we are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

Obviously salvation is conditional upon acceptance of Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?
It's a simple question, which requires a simple, Yes or No, answer.

A simple "yes," or "no" without backing up one's answer with the Bible is no real answer at all.
We give reasons with the Bible to support our answers to questions like these because faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

So, "Does God Need Our Permission in Order to Save Us?"

Yes. Here are some verses that imply this truth in the Bible.

#1. The wrath of God is against all who do ungodliness who hold the truth in unrighteousness because that which may be known of God is manifested in them; So they are without excuse.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:18-20).

This speaks to every human being who rejects God in this life. They are without excuse in denying His existence. So the wicked do have an understanding of God's existence at some point in their lives or on a deeper level they are aware of God. This means that it was their choice to accept God or not because they were without excuse in regards to His existence and it was not GOD who made them out to be reprobate with having no understanding of Him.​

#2. Those who perish in unrighteousness (sin) do so because they receive not the love of the truth that they might be saved.

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians 2:10).​

The Calvinist believes those who perish in unrighteousness do so because God elected them to reprobation or damnation. But the Bible says that those who perish in unrighteousness because they receive not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved.​

#3. Jesus desired Jerusalem to be gather together like a hen protects her chicks under it's wings but they (Jerusalem) would not let Jesus to do so.

"“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me" (Matthew 23:37).

Jesus is GOD, and they were not cooperating with God to come to Him. This means God's will was being thwarted here. So no Unconditional Election was happening here.​

#4. When we seek after God, and search for Him with all our heart, we will find Him.

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13).

This one is self explanatory. It means that anyone who seeks after God and searches for Him with all their heart, they will find Him. The Calvinist does not believe this verse for some reason.​

#5. God sets before us life and death and He desires us to choose life so that you and your children may live.

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live" (Deuteronomy 30:19).

God gives us a choice in setting before us life and death and He desires us to choose life (eternal life) so that we and our children may live. Pretty simple to understand unless somebody does not like this verse and as a result, they will seek to change it or ignore it.​

 

[expos4ever]

We were dead. God made us alive. Ephesians 2.

This is not an answer to what I am asking.

 

[Hammster]

Well that's easy enough to explain.
If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from death, you will be saved. For it is by our faith that we are put right with God; it is by our confession that we are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

Obviously salvation is conditional upon acceptance of Christ.

Then it’s not secured for everyone on the cross.

 

[Hammster]

This is not an answer to what I am asking.

Then I don’t understand what you are asking.

 

[renniks]

Then it’s not secured for everyone on the cross.

Actually it is. If I have a gift for everyone, and some people don't accept it, the gift still exists.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Thanks be to God! He saved a wretched enemy combatant like me — without my permission.

Causes ones like us
to be very grateful.

He doesn't call us in
He drags us in.

M-Bob

 

[Hammster]

Actually it is. If I have a gift for everyone, and some people don't accept it, the gift still exists.

Ah. So righteousness is like a birthday gift. Nice.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Yes

 

[Hammster]

Yes

Why would an unrighteous person have anything to do with God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's a simple question, which requires a simple, Yes or No, answer.

I wouldn’t say He needs our permission but He does require our cooperation.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I wouldn’t say He needs our permission but He does require our cooperation.

What does cooperation entail?

 

[renniks]

Ah. So righteousness is like a birthday gift. Nice.

More like the only Christmas gift that matters.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Why would an unrighteous person have anything to do with God?

Because He makes a good offer, we're made in His image, and still have a yearning for Him.

 

[Hammster]

More like the only Christmas gift that matters.

Why would an enemy of God open it?

 

[BBAS 64]

I wouldn’t say He needs our permission but He does require our cooperation.

Good Day, BNR32FAN

Why?


In Him

Bill

 

[Hammster]

Because He makes a good offer, we're made in His image, and still have a yearning for Him.

We are at enmity with Him, in our natural state. We don’t understand the truth. We are unrighteous. There’s no fear of Him. Our nature is like those who are children of wrath.

Which part has a yearning for Him?