Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?

[BNR32FAN]

Sentenced? Wow.

If you equate gifts with sentencing, then I’m happy to be sentenced.

See, you lack discernment. You can’t understand what is said in the proper context. It’s no wonder why you can’t interpret scripture correctly. I wasn’t equating gifts with sentencing, I was contrasting the difference between the two. See, you look for ways to twist my words against me just like you look for ways to twist God’s words against Him, all so that you can keep your precious theology intact.

 

[corinth77777]

Gift.

A gift can be accepted or rejected, it doesn’t say that God has sentenced anyone to eternal life.

Since it is located in Christ Jesus our Lord...I believe that the Title Christ Jesus emphasizes His Location and Status..God's gift may just be Himself "the relationship"

Christ Jesus is now at His rightful place...recall when He tells the Father something like Give me the Glory that I had when I was with you.

HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE SND BECAME THE AUTHOR [SOURCE] OF OUR SALVATION.

As every living thing needs the Sun light, Air, and water to survive. And they are the sources of physical life.

Recall that God is in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

Jesus also states:At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Since God's being is predicated on Himself
I can see Him using Himself as the Gift.

But Jesus is that way [the source of ] ....the Gift is in Him.

Abundant Life that comes from in my view having a relationship with the father and the son. Seeing upon which the meaning of eternal life is To know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

 

[corinth77777]

See, you lack discernment. You can’t understand what is said in the proper context. It’s no wonder why you can’t interpret scripture correctly. I wasn’t equating gifts with sentencing, I was contrasting the difference between the two. See, you look for ways to twist my words against me just like you look for ways to twist God’s words against Him, all so that you can keep your precious theology intact.

What is His theology?

 

[Hammster]

What you are implying is an attack against God’s very nature. GOD IS LOVE!!! Your theology makes God out to be cold hearted towards the unelect even tho the elect are no more worthy of His grace than the unelect. Your theology also makes God’s judgement on the unelect unjust by teaching that they are judged and condemned for failing to meet impossible expectations. Failure to meet impossible expectations is not the result of stubbornness or unwillingness, it’s the result of inability to comply. Your theology ignores the scriptures I’ve presented proving that condemnation is the result of stubbornness, not inability. If those who are condemned are condemned because of their inability to repent then it cannot be said that they are condemned because of their stubbornness. If God commanded that in order to receive salvation we must travel to Alpha Centauri and we are incapable of traveling there by any means then the cause of our condemnation is not stubbornness or unwillingness, it’s the result of inability. We are completely incapable of meeting that expectation. No matter how much we want to comply we are completely incapable of doing so, thus God’s expectations would be impossible to meet and His judgement against us would be UNJUST. You can’t punish someone for failing to meet impossible expectations and call it just. The problem you and Jimmy have is that you allow your doctrines to determine your interpretation of scripture instead of allowing the scriptures themselves to determine your doctrines. Calvin’s doctrines were refuted by Iranaeus way back in 170AD. It’s ridiculous to accept the teachings of men who were cultivating their doctrines over 1500 years after the church was established over the teachings that were accepted a mere 170 years after the church was established. If you want to know what the apostles taught in the early church don’t listen to someone who is making new doctrines 1500 years after the church was established, look to the earliest church writings.

You just affirmed what I said. You think God is obligated to try to save everyone because there’s some reason that He needs to.

And if I want to know what the apostles taught, I’ll read what they wrote.

#solascriptura

 

[BNR32FAN]

Since it is located in Christ Jesus our Lord...I believe that the Title Christ Jesus emphasizes His Location and Status..God's gift may just be Himself "the relationship"

Christ Jesus is now at His rightful place...recall when He tells the Father something like Give me the Glory that I had when I was with you.

HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE SND BECAME THE AUTHOR [SOURCE] OF OUR SALVATION.

As every living thing needs the Sun light, Air, and water to survive. And they are the sources of physical life.

Recall that God is in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

Jesus also states:At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Since God's being is predicated on Himself
I can see Him using Himself as the Gift.

But Jesus is that way [the source of ] ....the Gift is in Him.

Abundant Life that comes from in my view having a relationship with the father and the son. Seeing upon which the meaning of eternal life is To know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

Amen and anyone who rejects Him is rejecting salvation, but people do that of their own free will. They make the choice themselves thus condemning themselves. Calvin’s theology teaches that God is condemning those who do not accept Christ by not enabling them to accept Him. According to Calvin’s theology it is impossible for anyone to accept Christ unless they have been elected to salvation by The Father. Also according to Calvin’s theology it is impossible for anyone to do anything to influence God’s decision on whom He elects to salvation. So it is not only impossible for someone to accept Christ without being elected by The Father but it is also impossible to do anything to persuade Him to elect that person. Hence God’s judgement on the condemned is unjust because they are completely incapable of meeting God’s impossible expectations according to Calvin’s theology.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What is His theology?

He’s a Calvinist

 

[Hammster]

See, you lack discernment. You can’t understand what is said in the proper context. It’s no wonder why you can’t interpret scripture correctly. I wasn’t equating gifts with sentencing, I was contrasting the difference between the two. See, you look for ways to twist my words against me just like you look for ways to twist God’s words against Him, all so that you can keep your precious theology intact.

If you meant something different, then say so. I try to take things at face value.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You just affirmed what I said. You think God is obligated to try to save everyone because there’s some reason that He needs to.

And if I want to know what the apostles taught, I’ll read what they wrote.

#solascriptura

But your interpretation of the scriptures is based on the doctrines created by men in the 16th century that have been refuted by every single church the apostles established.

 

[Hammster]

But your interpretation of the scriptures is based on the doctrines created by men in the 16th century that have been refuted by every single church the apostles established.

That’s not a refutation. I guess I could say that your interpretation of the scriptures is based on doctrines created by men in the first century, and were thankfully refuted by others in those churches ever since.

 

[corinth77777]

See, you lack discernment. You can’t understand what is said in the proper context. It’s no wonder why you can’t interpret scripture correctly. I wasn’t equating gifts with sentencing, I was contrasting the difference between the two. See, you look for ways to twist my words against me just like you look for ways to twist God’s words against Him, all so that you can keep your precious theology intact.

What is His theology?

Since it is located in Christ Jesus our Lord...I believe that the Title Christ Jesus emphasizes His Location and Status..God's gift may just be Himself "the relationship"

Christ Jesus is now at His rightful place...recall when He tells the Father something like Give me the Glory that I had when I was with you.

HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE SND BECAME THE AUTHOR [SOURCE] OF OUR SALVATION.

As every living thing needs the Sun light, Air, and water to survive. And they are the sources of physical life.

Recall that God is in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

Jesus also states:At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Since God's being is predicated on Himself
I can see Him using Himself as the Gift.

But Jesus is that way [the source of ] ....the Gift is in Him.

Abundant Life that comes from in my view having a relationship with the father and the son. Seeing upon which the meaning of eternal life is To know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

This is one reason why we need to stay connected by doing His will.

And this is His will that everyone who looks to the son and believes will have life and be raised on the last day.

As with a similar passage Galatians 2:16

And because I see the 2 sriptures nearly the same....let's see if they give meaning to each other

To look to the son then would mean to believe who He is..........the question is have we put confidence in who He is?

To believe Who He is then may be the aspect of being Brought into the kingdom of His dear son...right?

Why because your intention is to trust Him
And that means to follow His Authority. As He is the author of eternal life.

So as we learn How to trust Him ...

As Jesus tell His disciples go Baptizing by teaching them to do all that I commanded you to do and lo I will be with you always even until the end of time....

Deep stuff
For now I see How they end up coming under the authority of What is called the Trinity.

Although I have questions on it.

And to come under that authority is to live by it....This is a great cleansing....because
Saves the whole self...the spirit, soul, and maybe the body seeing that enoch walked with God and was taken. But that is questionable....

As is said something as first make the tree good and then its fruit will be.

So as our inside becomes clean by obeying
The truth, under the authority of, we are being transformed to image of Christ.

The later part just discussed is true belief faith worked by Love. Which is How we can be justified by God keeping His commandments to Love

That you will find in both of those passages.
The gift then is to Trust GOD and Live.

And none of this we do alone

 

[corinth77777]

Amen and anyone who rejects Him is rejecting salvation, but people do that of their own free will. They make the choice themselves thus condemning themselves. Calvin’s theology teaches that God is condemning those who do not accept Christ by not enabling them to accept Him. According to Calvin’s theology it is impossible for anyone to accept Christ unless they have been elected to salvation by The Father. Also according to Calvin’s theology it is impossible for anyone to do anything to influence God’s decision on whom He elects to salvation. So it is not only impossible for someone to accept Christ without being elected by The Father but it is also impossible to do anything to persuade Him to elect that person. Hence God’s judgement on the condemned is unjust because they are completely incapable of meeting God’s impossible expectations according to Calvin’s theology.

Yes, then storing up for themselves wrath
In the day of Judgement.

For the opportunity is now? Is this correct?

 

[corinth77777]

Gift.

The Reformed Faith (which I believe the Bible teaches, for the most part) teaches that regeneration comes before faith, because faith requires a person to be spiritual as a condition. So the logical order is regeneration, faith, justification, but not saying that is necessarily chronological. It may be simultaneous.

But faith is also a gift of God, and as Rom. 3:25 says that justification is a gift of God, justification is unmerited. So, what happens to us in salvation is all God's work. God is the cause, and we and our works, choices, etc. are the result, in which we are operating in faith.

And yes, it's not all academic, as we must experience the faith walk to understand what the apostles were writing about.
TD

So, what happens to us in salvation is all God's work. God is the cause, and we and our works, choices, etc. are the result, in which we are operating in faith.



And yes, it's not all academic, as we must experience the faith walk to understand what the apostles were writing about.

I pretty much agree.
But He doesnt save us without us yielding
Other wise He would not have gave us free will.
And He would not have given us Jesus's life to eat from. Stop eating and you stop growing. He doesn't force us to eat from Him but He is the source in why we eat from Him.
What happens if you stop eating ? Your growth is stunted, or you die. Because if you are not eating from Him then you trying to thrive on something else.

But since salvation is Eternal, on going, you are only as good [live] as you feed....

Just some thoughts...tks for the exchsnge

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But since salvation is Eternal, on going, you are only as good [live] as you feed....

GOOD.
This reminds of the vine and the branches - the branches can do nothing apart from the vine,
and if they bear no fruit, they may be cut off and tossed in the trash bin to be burned.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That’s not a refutation. I guess I could say that your interpretation of the scriptures is based on doctrines created by men in the first century, and were thankfully refuted by others in those churches ever since.

No because no Christian church taught reformed theology before the 16th century.

 

[corinth77777]

GOOD.
This reminds of the vine and the branches - the branches can do nothing apart from the vine,
and if they bear no fruit, they may be cut off and tossed in the trash bin to be burned.

Yes, because the purpose is to bear fruit...
And we are the vessel in which God uses.
If the vessel doesn't adhere to the purposes of God then it is useless.

In that case maybe the meaning make your call and elect sure...

Or to check yourself to see if you are in the faith......in steps with the faith

Reminded of Jesus with the pharisees:
Loving the outward praise they get from men by keeping up appearances[name only], [doctrine only] rather than actually keeping the full law.

I admit I been there ignorantly, but it took humbling for God to lift me up by His Life.

It's the story of trying to climb in some other way...when we must come in at the door.

He is the way, the truth and the life no man can come unto the father but through Him.

He said if I be lifted up from the earth I'll draw all men unto me....That is not only a passage to look up but it seems to have double meaning .

He was lifted up out of the grave...
That He may give life to everyone who even merely believed on His name..

But what about when we lift Him up..
We can only lift Him up in our bodies through obedience; as the the "father" [which was still Christ] was Glorified in the son. Again where God's being is predicated upon Himself.

But the second meaning has to do with praises...but these are not praises of our Human flesh but praises that come from a connection to Him.

God magnifying Himself...making His name Known...His name is His being....as said I am that I am....

Wow! Thanks God....you is Good....and wonderful and worthy to be praised.....Wow!

 

[corinth77777]

If you meant something different, then say so. I try to take things at face value.

That's like me...I'm trying to work on it...
Because sometimes even though people may make mistakes in using the exact wording, the exact conclusion to something.
Their intent of where their understanding may be is still to show or use something to make a point.

Example was when the people [as babes] didn't eat meat because they believed it was offered to Idols. But the disciples knew that an Idol was nothing.....The point is God no matter where we are or start can make us Stand....why because the motive and intent of their heart was pure...They were doing it to honor God.

So I know why I wasn't liked...lol so much growing up. I WAS A STICKLER. IT HAD TO BE SAID THE WAY I WANTED SAID. FACT IS WE LOSE WHAT SOMEONE IS TRYING TO TEACH US THAT WAY.

 

[Hammster]

No because no Christian church taught reformed theology before the 16th century.

So you all have been wrong from the beginning.

See how that’s not a refutation? Do you see why I prefer scripture over “well, it’s what my church teaches, even if it’s not in line with scripture”?

 

[corinth77777]

No because no Christian church taught reformed theology before the 16th century.

No because no Christian church taught reformed theology before the 16th century.

Why do you say the reformed church taught wrong, can you quote something from their teaching that opposes scripture or understanding of it?

 

[corinth77777]

This is why we are not on one accord;

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

I came in through a set doctrine in which to believe....and if it didnt fit the doctrine...then people were wrong [smile]

But the foundation is not the doctrine of Men
It's Jesus Christ

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Reformed Faith (which I believe the Bible teaches, for the most part) teaches that regeneration comes before faith, because faith requires a person to be spiritual as a condition. So the logical order is regeneration, faith, justification, but not saying that is necessarily chronological. It may be simultaneous.

But faith is also a gift of God, and as Rom. 3:25 says that justification is a gift of God, justification is unmerited. So, what happens to us in salvation is all God's work. God is the cause, and we and our works, choices, etc. are the result, in which we are operating in faith.

And yes, it's not all academic, as we must experience the faith walk to understand what the apostles were writing about.
TD

But Paul taught that faith alone is not enough.

“If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1-3‬ ‭NASB‬‬