Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?

[tdidymas]

With all that is said here
I come to understand my problem as being brought up Baptist. And that was I trusted something He did before I trusted who He was.
For Jesus came preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and Paul as I now get, was putting the face to the kingdom. For one thing I see, as I am writing this out, in the atonement message is that fact that He Rose from the dead proved who He was, as the rest of the passage of the Gospel says: and has went to heaven seated at the right Hand of the father.

Point being when we put our trust in who He is, as one said, who trust [intends to act as what they believe is true] that He in control of all things, rather than trust something He will do, that is forgive sin , Then can we see a natural progression of What it means. One thought BECAUSE you are living out a living word that comes alive to us, as we live it out.

But the understanding that when we are brought to gripp who He really Is...as Peter
We should learn to trust Him as God...This trust is an intention to follow what You believe....which I say may be How God brings us out of The dark into the light...But that information about who He is, is only Aided by The Holy Spirit as Jesus told Peter that flesh and blood did not reveal to Him who He was but His Father. And that was the Rock...[maybe realization or revelation] that the church would be built off of.

Therefore one way He saved us was from bringing us out of the dark and into the light.

None of our doing right?

But one reason we are brought to the light is so that we can learn to live in the presence of God in order to have a relationship but I believe, the actions of purifying ourselves by living, abiding, in and by His living word is then how He justifies us.
Another words the law is fullfilled in us as we walk not after the flesh, but the Spirit.
The law fulfillment in us is what then will set us right by God.....so then....we can come to know, experience things that are in Him, for the father and Him are one ready to exemplify judgement....just added that last part because it came to me like that....[exemplify judgement]

I agree that God saves us by bringing us out of the dark and into the light, and that's not merely "one way" He saves it's the only way. When we hear the gospel, God does a spiritual work in us which causes us to have ears to hear it. I also agree that it's none of our doing, which means salvation is monergistic (one-way grace from God to us), and not synergistic (two-way work). This is how I read Col. 1:13 among many others.

I also agree that we learn to live in relationship with Him, and that means we are actively involved in the learning. We can spiritually grow easily or hardly, more or less, depending on how we respond to that relationship. And since we are far from perfect in Christlikeness, we need the chastisement that Heb. 12 mentions.

I read Eph. 2:8 that salvation, grace, and faith are all the gift of God, since it all comes together by hearing the gospel. It's "not of ourselves, it is the gift of God." And realizing that my very faith is the gift of God makes me to trust Him all the more.
TD

 

[BNR32FAN]

What aspect of salvation? Regeneration? Justification? Sanctification? Glorification?

Salvation, you know, acceptance into heaven, not being condemned to the lake of fire for all eternity?

 

[BNR32FAN]

How does that answer my question?

If people are building up the wrath of God because of their stubbornness then obviously their cooperation is required for salvation.

 

[Hammster]

Salvation, you know, acceptance into heaven, not being condemned to the lake of fire for all eternity?

Glorification, then.

 

[Hammster]

If people are building up the wrath of God because of their stubbornness then obviously their cooperation is required for salvation.

Or, obviously we need God to step in and save us.


And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
— Ephesians 2:1-5

 

[BNR32FAN]

Glorification, then.

If they are building up the wrath of God By their stubbornness then obviously they are not justified otherwise they wouldn’t be storing up God’s wrath, they are not sanctified or regenerative otherwise they wouldn’t be stubborn. Without justification everything else is irrelevant because if our sins are not forgiven then we cannot be sanctified.

 

[corinth77777]

I agree that God saves us by bringing us out of the dark and into the light, and that's not merely "one way" He saves it's the only way. When we hear the gospel, God does a spiritual work in us which causes us to have ears to hear it. I also agree that it's none of our doing, which means salvation is monergistic (one-way grace from God to us), and not synergistic (two-way work). This is how I read Col. 1:13 among many others.

I also agree that we learn to live in relationship with Him, and that means we are actively involved in the learning. We can spiritually grow easily or hardly, more or less, depending on how we respond to that relationship. And since we are far from perfect in Christlikeness, we need the chastisement that Heb. 12 mentions.

I read Eph. 2:8 that salvation, grace, and faith are all the gift of God, since it all comes together by hearing the gospel. It's "not of ourselves, it is the gift of God." And realizing that my very faith is the gift of God makes me to trust Him all the more.
TD

Hi, and yes I believe faith is a gift...but what does that have to do with a anything?

 

[corinth77777]

I agree that God saves us by bringing us out of the dark and into the light, and that's not merely "one way" He saves it's the only way. When we hear the gospel, God does a spiritual work in us which causes us to have ears to hear it. I also agree that it's none of our doing, which means salvation is monergistic (one-way grace from God to us), and not synergistic (two-way work). This is how I read Col. 1:13 among many others.

I also agree that we learn to live in relationship with Him, and that means we are actively involved in the learning. We can spiritually grow easily or hardly, more or less, depending on how we respond to that relationship. And since we are far from perfect in Christlikeness, we need the chastisement that Heb. 12 mentions.

I read Eph. 2:8 that salvation, grace, and faith are all the gift of God, since it all comes together by hearing the gospel. It's "not of ourselves, it is the gift of God." And realizing that my very faith is the gift of God makes me to trust Him all the more.
TD

The reason I said one way He saves us...Is because I was trying to emphasize you can be saved from many things.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Or, obviously we need God to step in and save us.


And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
— Ephesians 2:1-5

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads YOU to repentance? But because of YOUR stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice that Paul says that God’s patience and kindness leads YOU to repentance but because of YOUR stubbornness you are storing up wrath. God’s kindness and patience is/His grace is towards everyone, even the unrepentant.

 

[Hammster]

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads YOU to repentance? But because of YOUR stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice that Paul says that God’s patience and kindness leads YOU to repentance but because of YOUR stubbornness you are storing up wrath. God’s kindness and patience is/His grace is towards everyone, even the unrepentant.

He’s describing the same ones in Eph 2, the ones he calls children of wrath.

 

[corinth77777]

[

Of course, I do, it's the reason for my question. But it begs the question for you, do you believe that your faith is the gift of God (Ref. Eph. 2:8)?
TD

Let me have a retake...and recall I am a learner.
And think this outloud. If we know through Gal 2 or 3:16 that we believe in Him....Who He is in order to be Justified by the faith or faithfulness of Him.. that can mean a couple of thing. That His faithfulness is The Gift. I pair that with 1 peter 3;21 that the Baptism that saves us now.....is the answer from God for a clear conscience found in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Notice what the Baptism is Christ's resurrection[a noun]
This is How or even the source of our cleasing[saving] delivering [verb] of the conscience b4 God. And recall in Hebrews He was made the Source of our being delivered...and I'll verify if salvation there is a verb. So I believe His resurrected Life, He Himself is our gift....He is faithful,
And we are given therefore His faithfulness.

Note to myself...I can see His faithfulness as a promise
He is Faithful because He lives forever to interceed for those who come to Him.
But we can also say that His type of faith that He had in the father is what alo saves us...but I have to think upon that a little bit more.
So CHRIST'S LIFE, GOD'S PROMISE IS OUR GIFT...WOW! THAT WAS FUN
It actually shows the statement of His name
"I am that I am"

Why you think it begs the question for me though?

 

[BNR32FAN]

He’s describing the same ones in Eph 2, the ones he calls children of wrath.

Paul says they WERE FORMERLY children of wrath but now they are children of God. In Romans Paul is writing to those who are called saints but judge others for sinful activities that these so called saints engage in themselves. They think that because their sins have been forgiven that they can still be hypocrites and receive salvation and Paul is correcting them in chapter 2 by saying

“Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1-8‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice the contrast between those who persevere and receive eternal life vs those who are selfish and disobedient who receive God’s wrath on judgement day.

 

[corinth77777]

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads YOU to repentance? But because of YOUR stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice that Paul says that God’s patience and kindness leads YOU to repentance but because of YOUR stubbornness you are storing up wrath. God’s kindness and patience is/His grace is towards everyone, even the unrepentant.

That means some yielding needs to take place...is that what you are saying?

 

[corinth77777]

I agree that God saves us by bringing us out of the dark and into the light, and that's not merely "one way" He saves it's the only way. When we hear the gospel, God does a spiritual work in us which causes us to have ears to hear it. I also agree that it's none of our doing, which means salvation is monergistic (one-way grace from God to us), and not synergistic (two-way work). This is how I read Col. 1:13 among many others.

I also agree that we learn to live in relationship with Him, and that means we are actively involved in the learning. We can spiritually grow easily or hardly, more or less, depending on how we respond to that relationship. And since we are far from perfect in Christlikeness, we need the chastisement that Heb. 12 mentions.

I read Eph. 2:8 that salvation, grace, and faith are all the gift of God, since it all comes together by hearing the gospel. It's "not of ourselves, it is the gift of God." And realizing that my very faith is the gift of God makes me to trust Him all the more.
TD

Let's look up the words, for we can receive more grace, let's look up faith, for we can receive more faith, and look up salvation for we can be delivered many different times from different circumstances as we live our lives in todays world...because that is much of what being delivered from [salvation] is about. This Life we now live here on earth....
Yet extended over or rather a byproduct of life now...

 

[corinth77777]

I agree that God saves us by bringing us out of the dark and into the light, and that's not merely "one way" He saves it's the only way. When we hear the gospel, God does a spiritual work in us which causes us to have ears to hear it. I also agree that it's none of our doing, which means salvation is monergistic (one-way grace from God to us), and not synergistic (two-way work). This is how I read Col. 1:13 among many others.

I also agree that we learn to live in relationship with Him, and that means we are actively involved in the learning. We can spiritually grow easily or hardly, more or less, depending on how we respond to that relationship. And since we are far from perfect in Christlikeness, we need the chastisement that Heb. 12 mentions.

I read Eph. 2:8 that salvation, grace, and faith are all the gift of God, since it all comes together by hearing the gospel. It's "not of ourselves, it is the gift of God." And realizing that my very faith is the gift of God makes me to trust Him all the more.
TD

Now, the way I see it at this time....
Is in this passage
Roman's 4; 23-25

Now the words “it was credited to him” were written not only for Abraham, but also for us, to whom righteousness will be credited—for us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our trespasses and was raised to life for our justification.

Question? is it like this, [me talking]
Having been justified through His faithfulness.

And I guess what matters is how one sees born from above, and the order, as what comes First. Regeneration or Justification...and all those other salvation terms...

But Honestly I believe if any Theologian really put their feet to the faith they would learn His word through their experience with Him.

For myself I spent more time trying to figure out the right way instead of trying to live it out.

 

[corinth77777]

Of course, I do, it's the reason for my question. But it begs the question for you, do you believe that your faith is the gift of God (Ref. Eph. 2:8)?
TD

My last statement is as I learned from Dallas Willard book....

Is that grace is not passive it's active
Think of doing your sister a favor to Hold Her money for her in your bank. If she does not release [verb] Her money to you can she use what you will do for her as a favor?

Yet in order for you to put it in the bank she may have to take it out of her bank, by tapping in a code, grabbing it out the machine, hold it, put it down in the car, after opening the door, then drive to your house, stop at shop lights....turn the corner, drive up the drive way get out the car,knock on the door, wait for you to open it, and hand it to you before you can put it in your bank.

So Willard Defines Grace something like this: God acting on our behalf in what we cannot do on our own. Does that make unmerited favor not a favor? No! It makes grace active.
Does your sister earn your putting it in the bank as a favor? No Does she have something to boast about in the favor? No

So the conclusion That I believe He gets to is that grace is not oppose to effort but earning.

 

[Hammster]

Paul says they WERE FORMERLY children of wrath but now they are children of God.

no he doesn’t.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That means some yielding needs to take place...is that what you are saying?

Amen we must work in cooperation with the Holy Spirit to receive salvation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

no he doesn’t.

Just can’t admit when your wrong can you.

 

[Hammster]

Just can’t admit when your wrong can you.

I’m not the one who is wrong.


Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3

Their nature was that of the children of wrath. They weren’t actually children of wrath. God’s wrath was satisfied on the cross.