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Well, for starters, you just informed us that you believe he is amoral.How could such a God be accused of wrongdoing, no matter WHAT he did?
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Well, for starters, you just informed us that you believe he is amoral.How could such a God be accused of wrongdoing, no matter WHAT he did?
Thus confirming that you believe he is a cosmic tyrant. Good work.If what God does. requires justification, he is not God.
"To the faithful you show yourself faithful,
to the blameless you show yourself blameless,
26 to the pure you show yourself pure,
but to the devious you show yourself shrewd
Not that you don't have it backwards, but yes, the conversation is laid bare. I am accused of positing a cruel God, when I am merely attempting to quote, describe, point to, and explain Scripture and what it teaches. If someone sees a cruel God when God himself says such awful things as 'visiting the father's sins upon his sons, to the 3rd or 4th generation of them that hate him." or "there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth", but does not say, "You chose hell of your own autonomous free will, ruining my plans for you.", what am I to think? My God, they claim is cruel.This passage is telling. If we see God as condemning, then we are shown to be condemning. If we see God as forgiving, then we are shown to be forgiving. If that's true, then the nature of this entire conversation is laid bare.
No. Your God you claim is cruel.My God, they claim is cruel.
God's plans are NOT ruined by human behavior. As if he couldn't anticipate that. Seriously?"You chose hell of your own autonomous free will, ruining my plans for you."
The cosmic tyrant that incinerates humans is compassionate beyond anything you can imagine? Wow. Did you grow up in a death camp or something?He is compassionate beyond anything I can imagine.
Not that you don't have it backwards
The passage says, ""To the faithful you show yourself faithful,How do I have it backwards?
To me it is just the reverse of what the passage says.
Ha! This is great! Do you not see I was quoting someone I plainly disagreed with? Does that even begin to resemble what I've been saying all along? NO! It is what people are saying to me! The strawman is becoming weaker all the time. Soon it will disappear altogether.God's plans are NOT ruined by human behavior. As if he couldn't anticipate that. Seriously?
I watched the movie, in the end the strawman got a brain.The strawman is becoming weaker all the time. Soon it will disappear altogether.
If someone sees a cruel God when God himself says such awful things as 'visiting the father's sins upon his sons, to the 3rd or 4th generation of them that hate him." or "there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth", but does not say, "You chose hell of your own autonomous free will, ruining my plans for you.", what am I to think? My God, they claim is cruel.
Where's the strawman in this discussion?Ha! This is great! Do you not see I was quoting someone I plainly disagreed with? Does that even begin to resemble what I've been saying all along? NO! It is what people are saying to me! The strawman is becoming weaker all the time. Soon it will disappear altogether.
And since, in your mind, they have BECOME less than human, it is therefore not cruelty.
The other argument @Mark Quayle has been making has to do with the claim of the utter depravity of humanity. Thus making them DESERVING of eternal conscious torment. As if to ask, "How can that be cruel?" Please correct me if this is a misunderstanding of your position. Thanks.Where's the strawman in this discussion?
It seems your only defense against the accusation of cruelty when humans are incinerated is to claim that they really aren't humans, but rather wraiths, being incinerated. And since, in your mind, they have BECOME less than human, it is therefore not cruelty.
Your alternative argument is to reason that if God does it, it can't be cruel, because God is not cruel. In your view he is merely demonstrating his power in justice.
And to make matters worse, @Mark Quayle -- our God is then the creator and sustainer of such an instrument of unfathomable pain and suffering. The design of which was a part of his plan for humankind. So, therefore with malice and forethought. That is the implied accusation against God when eternal conscious torment is included. As if God created the ultimate hate machine. And then demands that we love our enemies. What's wrong with this picture?Frankly, no one deserves eternal conscious torment. If we have any concept of what that truly means. Even a heretic burned at the stake by the Church is done in a matter of minutes. As unthinkable as that cruelty was, it pales in comparison to eternal conscious torment.
So, therefore with malice and forethought.