Does God know what we will do in the future? Our fate?

[Heart2Soul]

Matthew 24:36
"However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.

This scripture is your proof @Oscarr because it says He knows that which is not knowable to anyone but himself.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Matthew 24:36
"However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.

This scripture is your proof @Oscarr because it says He knows that which is not knowable to anyone but himself.

No, it's not. It is knowable because the Father knows it. This is because in His plan, the second coming will happen when all the prophetic ducks are in a row.

 

[TechyinAZ]

Oscarr, your post above sounds like you agree with Heart2Soul in a negative way LOL.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yes, he knew that. Just as he knew Judas would betray Jesus. Or do you think the Atonement was something God left to chance, and, being as limited as he is, he just had to hope for the best?

God knew Cain's nature, so He knew that there was a high enough probability that Cain could get jealous and angry enough to do his brother harm. I don't believe that Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him when He appointed him. I don't think that Judas had any intention of betraying Him at first. But Jesus found out as things went along that Judas was a thief, so this shows that smaller sins can lead to bigger ones if not dealt with. Jesus knows the hearts of people, so He would have detected the change of heart in Judas.

God never leaves anything to chance. He plans everything thoroughly and knows what He wants to do in the future. But sometimes He has to change the way He works His plan out because of the different decisions people make. His intention for the children of Israel was that He would get them out of Egypt, and across to Canaan in 27 days, and then enter in to the land and defeat the enemies there and possess it. But because of the disobedience of the people, they had to wander in the wilderness for 40 years. God's preference was that they went straight into the land and not spend an extra 40 years so that the present generation would die off.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Rather ironic that this comment is in response to a comment of mine that quotes Scripture! I have quoted others in this thread regarding God having foreknowledge. There are many others I could quote (including those quoted by @Hawkins in the post above), but I see no point since you even use quotes from me that are quoting Scripture to prove that I am not quoting Scripture...

But you have quoted Scripture that shows that God has a past, present and a future. But you still cannot provide any reference that says definitely that God exists in an ever-present state.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

God must know the future, there is no way around it. If he did not know any part of the future whatsoever, then Christianity would fall apart because God would be lying. From multiple areas in scripture we see God is all powerful and ALL KNOWING. Psalm 147:5

An easy way to think of this is to remember that God created TIME itself, so He must have the capability of manipulating it and knowing every aspect of it.

This of course does mean that He knows and allows evil to happen. (But this is going into the subject of "why does God allow evil when he is all good"...don't want to derail this thread)

God created the way we measure time, but there is no reference in the Bible where God created time itself. Time, as we know it, is how we measure it by hours, days, months and years. Measurement started with the creation of the sun and the rotation of the earth.

But time itself is the series of events. Take away the series of events and all you have is a still photograph where nothing happens. Because things happen with God, therefore there has to be a sequence of existence where there is a past, present and future.

The difference between our measured time and eternal time is that our time has a beginning, and middle and an end (one day), but eternity has no beginning and no end. If God lives in an environment where there is no past or future and we go to glory to fellowship with Him, we will all be frozen in time like a snapshot photograph. We won't be going anywhere or doing anything.

Believing that God is ever-present is being so spiritually minded that one is of no earthly use.

 

[Heart2Soul]

No, it's not. It is knowable because the Father knows it. This is because in His plan, the second coming will happen when all the prophetic ducks are in a row.

Exactly because He is Omnipotent and knows all things from beginning to end.

 

[Heart2Soul]

God created the way we measure time, but there is no reference in the Bible where God created time itself. Time, as we know it, is how we measure it by hours, days, months and years. Measurement started with the creation of the sun and the rotation of the earth.

But time itself is the series of events. Take away the series of events and all you have is a still photograph where nothing happens. Because things happen with God, therefore there has to be a sequence of existence where there is a past, present and future.

The difference between our measured time and eternal time is that our time has a beginning, and middle and an end (one day), but eternity has no beginning and no end. If God lives in an environment where there is no past or future and we go to glory to fellowship with Him, we will all be frozen in time like a snapshot photograph. We won't be going anywhere or doing anything.

Believing that God is ever-present is being so spiritually minded that one is of no earthly use.

OH, bull......you need to start pulling out those scriptures and back up everything you just said.

 

[Heart2Soul]

But time itself is the series of events. Take away the series of events and all you have is a still photograph where nothing happens. Because things happen with God, therefore there has to be a sequence of existence where there is a past, present and future.

Wrong

Believing that God is ever-present is being so spiritually minded that one is of no earthly use.

Definitely messed up!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God is everywhere, at all time, all the time, and knowing from beginning to end all things forever, before even anything or any man was created ! HALLELUYAH!

God is unchangeable, eternity past through eternity future ! HALLELUYAH !

Why did HE CHOOSE to let men sin and kill and destroy ?

(HE ALWAYS KNEW everything everyone will ever do)

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

[QUOTE="Heart2Soul, post: 73171931, member: 402415"]OH, bull......you need to start pulling out those scriptures and back up everything you just said.[/QUOTE]
If you think what I am saying is bull, then quote me a definite Scripture that says that God created time. Time is an absolute. It exists in eternity as unmeasured time. God has no need to measure time because it is never ending. We measure time because it does have an ending for us. A god existing out of time is a god of your dreams and not the God of the Bible.

 

[Heart2Soul]

[QUOTE="Heart2Soul, post: 73171931, member: 402415"]OH, bull......you need to start pulling out those scriptures and back up everything you just said.

If you think what I am saying is bull, then quote me a definite Scripture that says that God created time. Time is an absolute. It exists in eternity as unmeasured time. God has no need to measure time because it is never ending. We measure time because it does have an ending for us. A god existing out of time is a god of your dreams and not the God of the Bible.[/QUOTE]
Nope your turn to quote scripture.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Wrong

Definitely messed up!

Then how do you explain how God acts, moves and creates things? He has to have an awareness of intending to create, and to create, and then look on the thing He has created.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If you think what I am saying is bull, then quote me a definite Scripture that says that God created time. Time is an absolute. It exists in eternity as unmeasured time. God has no need to measure time because it is never ending. We measure time because it does have an ending for us. A god existing out of time is a god of your dreams and not the God of the Bible.

Nope your turn to quote scripture.

God looked on His creation and saw that it was good. He looked on His creation that he had just created, past tense. He was not still creating when He looked on it. He spent six days creating the world, then rested on the seventh. So on the seventh, the previous six days was in His past. His past is the same as our past, His present is the same as ours, and His future is same as what ours is going to be. If He lived in the ever-present, not only could He exist, but He could never communicate or fellowship with us. The death and resurrection of Christ is in His past as well as ours.

Anything else is religious imagination.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Then how do you explain how God acts, moves and creates things? He has to have an awareness of intending to create, and to create, and then look on the thing He has created.

I am the one that said He is Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscience.....you are the one that claims He only knows that which is knowable. God was upon the face of the earth and things were moving and happening before He created the sun and the moon. So the still photograph regarding the measurement of time is not even close to truth.
Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Versus 1 through 13 had quite a bit of action taking place before He created "the measurement of time"

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm late to the party here. I'll have to apologize for not reading the previous three pages.

Probably the best indication of God living outside of our time was when he transported the Apostle John to heaven in the book of Revelation. These events that will happen in our future are present tense for God. I puzzled about how these things could have already happened when they have not happened yet for us. It is because God lives outside of time. He is the Alpha and Omega. Who is and was and is to come. The great I am.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I am the one that said He is Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscience.....you are the one that claims He only knows that which is knowable. God was upon the face of the earth and things were moving and happening before He created the sun and the moon. So the still photograph regarding the measurement of time is not even close to truth.
Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Versus 1 through 13 had quite a bit of action taking place before He created "the measurement of time"

All you have done is to show that time is an eternal absolute before the measurement of it started. Eternity is measureless time - one event following another in an endless stream. Eternity is like a river of time that has no beginning or end.

It is an eternal absolute in the same way that good and evil are eternal absolutes. Even God's moral law is an eternal absolute. He never created moral law. It has always been there, in the same way that God has always been there. We don't know what God got up to in eternity past. We are not given that information. We know that the angels were created, but we have no idea how long ago that happened because in eternity there is no measurement standard for time. We can't say that the angels were created billions of years ago, because years didn't exist then because the sun and earth did not exist, and the measurement of years depends on the rotation of the earth around the sun.

It seems that when some people read the Bible and consider the nature and character of God, they must have been off school with the flu when basic comprehension skills were taught.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm late to the party here. I'll have to apologize for not reading the previous three pages.

Probably the best indication of God living outside of our time was when he transported the Apostle John to heaven in the book of Revelation. These events that will happen in our future are present tense for God. I puzzled about how these things could have already happened when they have not happened yet for us. It is because God lives outside of time. He is the Alpha and Omega. Who is and was and is to come. The great I am.

John's revelation was a vision written in the genre of Apocalyptic literature. It is very risky to establish substantive doctrine about the character and nature of God on Apocalyptic literature.

 

[Heart2Soul]

All you have done is to show that time is an eternal absolute before the measurement of it started. Eternity is measureless time - one event following another in an endless stream. Eternity is like a river of time that has no beginning or end.

It is an eternal absolute in the same way that good and evil are eternal absolutes. Even God's moral law is an eternal absolute. He never created moral law. It has always been there, in the same way that God has always been there. We don't know what God got up to in eternity past. We are not given that information. We know that the angels were created, but we have no idea how long ago that happened because in eternity there is no measurement standard for time. We can't say that the angels were created billions of years ago, because years didn't exist then because the sun and earth did not exist, and the measurement of years depends on the rotation of the earth around the sun.

It seems that when some people read the Bible and consider the nature and character of God, they must have been off school with the flu when basic comprehension skills were taught.

Really? Now you are going to resort to insults? Well You haven't supplied any scripture, you are the only one on this thread with your beliefs and your points are so full of carnal reason that it doesn't warrant discussing anymore at this point.

 

[Saint Steven]

John's revelation was a vision written in the genre of Apocalyptic literature. It is very risky to establish substantive doctrine about the character and nature of God on Apocalyptic literature.

That's a poplar view with which I disagree. I do like you though, if that helps. lol

I see evidence in the text of Revelation that indicates that John was physically transported to another realm to experience these things first hand.